Major lag in between gear changes on S3

[James.B8]

This has happened on a couple of occasions recently but tonight was worse than ever trying to over take and in the end I had to back off (no thanks to the car speeding up to try and stop me getting passedwasnt even a “fast” car) as the lag was so bad I just couldn’t build speed.

This is when I’m in individual or dynamic with the gearbox in “S” and plant my foot down from around 20-35mph so usually in the low gears. Pretty sure it’s from 2nd to 3rd but I build speed and when it comes to changing up a gear the car completely drops back almost jolting me forwards that’s how aggressive this lag is. Once it’s done this it’s fine and will change into higher gears as normal.

I’ll be taking the car into Audi but just wondering if anyone’s experienced this before or what it could be?

The car is an Audi S3 Saloon s-tronic 65 plate.

Thanks in advance

 

[DrMal]

Yes, I get that occasionally on overtaking and on one occasion it was ****** dangerous. It doesn't seem to matter what overall mode the car is in. I'll nudge the gearbox into 'S', kickdown and at that point the sequence of events is a bit vague (I'm concentrating on overtaking), but there's a change down, a long period of high revs (maybe other way round), and then eventually the power comes in.

It's happened on perhaps 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 times I've gone for a fast overtaking manoeuvre. I'm guessing the s-tronic gear selection strategy gets confused, but whatever the cause, it's not good.

 

[richard skilbeck]

'Nudge gearbox into ' S '?

 

[DrMal]

With s-tronic in D, pull/nudge/flick the drive select lever towards you to change the mode to S.

 

[richard skilbeck]

With s-tronic in D, pull/nudge/flick the drive select lever towards you to change the mode to S.

Ah right I believe as I always drive in Dynamic I am automatically in S mode. Forgot I could do that to be fair.

 

[richard skilbeck]

This has happened on a couple of occasions recently but tonight was worse than ever trying to over take and in the end I had to back off (no thanks to the car speeding up to try and stop me getting passedwasnt even a “fast” car) as the lag was so bad I just couldn’t build speed.

This is when I’m in individual or dynamic with the gearbox in “S” and plant my foot down from around 20-35mph so usually in the low gears. Pretty sure it’s from 2nd to 3rd but I build speed and when it comes to changing up a gear the car completely drops back almost jolting me forwards that’s how aggressive this lag is. Once it’s done this it’s fine and will change into higher gears as normal.

I’ll be taking the car into Audi but just wondering if anyone’s experienced this before or what it could be?

The car is an Audi S3 Saloon s-tronic 65 plate.

Thanks in advance

Mine does this also but not very often for it to be an issue, be interested in a resolution.

 

[James.B8]

Yes, I get that occasionally on overtaking and on one occasion it was ****** dangerous. It doesn't seem to matter what overall mode the car is in. I'll nudge the gearbox into 'S', kickdown and at that point the sequence of events is a bit vague (I'm concentrating on overtaking), but there's a change down, a long period of high revs (maybe other way round), and then eventually the power comes in.

It's happened on perhaps 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 times I've gone for a fast overtaking manoeuvre. I'm guessing the s-tronic gear selection strategy gets confused, but whatever the cause, it's not good.

Yeah it’s not safe is it!! I tested it again today on an empty road but it didn’t happen so really not sure what it could be.
Something is definitely not right so I’ll try book it into Audi when I’ve got a moment then post the results if they find anything to hopefully give anyone else who has this an answer.

 

[vamos]

Traction control ?

 

[DrMal]

No, the traction control light doesn't come on. It feels like the box is requesting a specific engine speed for the gear it wants but it's not getting it straight away, maybe because there's a kickdown in progress. I don't know, it's weird, disconcerting and sometimes dangerous.

 

[James.B8]

No, the traction control light doesn't come on. It feels like the box is requesting a specific engine speed for the gear it wants but it's not getting it straight away, maybe because there's a kickdown in progress. I don't know, it's weird, disconcerting and sometimes dangerous.

Yeah plus one mines the same as this really. Don’t think it’s anything to do with traction

 

[Tom.H]

Ah right I believe as I always drive in Dynamic I am automatically in S mode. Forgot I could do that to be fair.

Driving in dynamic and S is sh*t on the road. Holds on to the gears too long, where you'd be in 6th in D you'll be in 3rd in S

 

[James.B8]

Driving in dynamic and S is sh*t on the road. Holds on to the gears too long, where you'd be in 6th in D you'll be in 3rd in S

Yeah only really good for overtaking or giving it the full beans

 

[Lehn]

Just a quick question for us non UKs, when is the car from? Just trying to specify if this is a 6 speed or a 7 speed auto problem

 

[DrMal]

Mine is MY2017, seven speed DSG.

 

[James.B8]

Must be both as mines a pre facelift so 6 speed

 

[4K]

This has happened on a couple of occasions recently but tonight was worse than ever trying to over take and in the end I had to back off (no thanks to the car speeding up to try and stop me getting passedwasnt even a “fast” car) as the lag was so bad I just couldn’t build speed.

This is when I’m in individual or dynamic with the gearbox in “S” and plant my foot down from around 20-35mph so usually in the low gears. Pretty sure it’s from 2nd to 3rd but I build speed and when it comes to changing up a gear the car completely drops back almost jolting me forwards that’s how aggressive this lag is. Once it’s done this it’s fine and will change into higher gears as normal.

I’ll be taking the car into Audi but just wondering if anyone’s experienced this before or what it could be?

The car is an Audi S3 Saloon s-tronic 65 plate.

Thanks in advance

So not sure if this is the same thing or not, but my PFL S3 has just hit 32K miles and sounds like it's having similar issues.

Essentially, it's now very jerky/lumpy on acceleration/deceleration in S mode with quite a great deal of lag/loss of torque forcing me to push on harder.

D seems ok and fairly smooth, except for the horrific lag between the throttle/gearbox/ECU which has been there since day one, necessitating going into S mode for overtakes etc (one of the main reasons I regret buying this car).

Are you experiencing the same? What mileage has yours done?

 

[James.B8]

So not sure if this is the same thing or not, but my PFL S3 has just hit 32K miles and sounds like it's having similar issues.

Essentially, it's now very jerky/lumpy on acceleration/deceleration in S mode with quite a great deal of lag/loss of torque forcing me to push on harder.

D seems ok and fairly smooth, except for the horrific lag between the throttle/gearbox/ECU which has been there since day one, necessitating going into S mode for overtakes etc (one of the main reasons I regret buying this car).

Are you experiencing the same? What mileage has yours done?

I wouldn’t necessarily say jerky or lumpy just very laggy and possibly lack of torque. Occasionally feels down on power too.

D is fine for me to be honest just when I’m in S mode.

I’ve just done 24k

 

[DrMal]

No, it's not turbo lag (which is pretty constant unless it's already on boost), this is a significantly longer delay, probably 3-5 seconds, during which time it feels like a loss of torque. I've only noticed it while in S-mode. Mileage: 4k

 

[4K]

Sounds similar, all of us have it in S mode.

 

[steve111b]

It is likely that your engine is going into protection mode. This causes a fuel cut which is dramatic. A less dramatic lag could be an electrical problem. I have had both. The electrical problem may only occur when the engine has another separate problem that produces the protection mode.

Also, there seems to be some confusion about how the DSG shifts. If you are not familiar with its operation you may believe there is lag when the DSG is simply doing what you tell it to.

My DSG was in an 8P and never produced any codes. Not sure if a dealer is going to do much unless you can demonstrate the problem. I did a lot of testing and eventually got the car to buck (from a fuel cut) at least a dozen times with a technician (not from a dealer) in the passenger seat. This was not enough to find the problem. Good luck.

 

[DrMal]

It is likely that your engine is going into protection mode. This causes a fuel cut which is dramatic. A less dramatic lag could be an electrical problem. I have had both. The electrical problem may only occur when the engine has another separate problem that produces the protection mode.

Also, there seems to be some confusion about how the DSG shifts. If you are not familiar with its operation you may believe there is lag when the DSG is simply doing what you tell it to.

My DSG was in an 8P and never produced any codes. Not sure if a dealer is going to do much unless you can demonstrate the problem. I did a lot of testing and eventually got the car to buck (from a fuel cut) at least a dozen times with a technician (not from a dealer) in the passenger seat. This was not enough to find the problem. Good luck.

Having worked in powertrain automotive, I don't think it's either of these, at least not in my case. It's not a loss of power and it doesn't present like an electrical fault would (too repeatable in how it presents itself). My suspicion is it's some unintended interaction between the engine strategies and gearbox strategies, which is why it won't show up via OBD and there's no freeze frame. It probably never showed up under pre-production testing, or at least not enough to be deemed significant.

 

[4K]

Having worked in powertrain automotive, I don't think it's either of these, at least not in my case. It's not a loss of power and it doesn't present like an electrical fault would (too repeatable in how it presents itself). My suspicion is it's some unintended interaction between the engine strategies and gearbox strategies, which is why it won't show up via OBD and there's no freeze frame. It probably never showed up under pre-production testing, or at least not enough to be deemed significant.

You can reset the DSG memory through VCDS. That might do the trick.

 

[steve111b]

The car I am driving now has the 7 speed, but I am not sure how it works. For the 6 speed I followed a bunch of rules that I made up and I felt the box worked well. So for the 6 speed the car can only go immediately into a gear that has been preselected. In Sport the highest gear is 5th with 4th preselected, which means when you hit the throttle the DSG instantly goes into fourth.

However, if you are in Drive, slam it into Sport and floor it you have asked the box to do something it is not designed to do. That is because when you are in Drive the box is in 6th with 5th preselected. You need to go into Sport and give it a few seconds for the box to go into 5th and preselect 4th.

Now comes the messy part. Let us say you are in Sport (5th) and you want the maximum available power. You floor the throttle and the box instantly goes into 4th, but now the box is busy getting 3rd from the instant you floored it. It is in 4th for about a second and then selects 3rd when it becomes available. However, when you look back with 20/20 hindsight the 1 second that the car was in 4th seems like lag since there is not a surge forward in 4th. The surge forward only happens when 3rd is engaged. So why not go from 5th directly into 3rd? No can do because both of these gears are on same (odd) shaft.

And another thing, do not use the paddles for any of this. Using the paddles reverts the box back to the Drive preselects. 4th is never preselected when using Drive.

 

[Matt Titanium]

The car I am driving now has the 7 speed, but I am not sure how it works. For the 6 speed I followed a bunch of rules that I made up and I felt the box worked well. So for the 6 speed the car can only go immediately into a gear that has been preselected. In Sport the highest gear is 5th with 4th preselected, which means when you hit the throttle the DSG instantly goes into fourth.

However, if you are in Drive, slam it into Sport and floor it you have asked the box to do something it is not designed to do. That is because when you are in Drive the box is in 6th with 5th preselected. You need to go into Sport and give it a few seconds for the box to go into 5th and preselect 4th.

Now comes the messy part. Let us say you are in Sport (5th) and you want the maximum available power. You floor the throttle and the box instantly goes into 4th, but now the box is busy getting 3rd from the instant you floored it. It is in 4th for about a second and then selects 3rd when it becomes available. However, when you look back with 20/20 hindsight the 1 second that the car was in 4th seems like lag since there is not a surge forward in 4th. The surge forward only happens when 3rd is engaged. So why not go from 5th directly into 3rd? No can do because both of these gears are on same (odd) shaft.

And another thing, do not use the paddles for any of this. Using the paddles reverts the box back to the Drive preselects. 4th is never preselected when using Drive.

This was my experience over six weeks with an S3 with STronic. The box was often confused, the car response all a bit fly by wire and laggy. Floor it from stand still, great. Every day driving, often annoying.
Perhaps 1200 miles wasn't long enough work out all the "rules" or master the "technique".

 

[4K]

This was my experience over six weeks with an S3 with STronic. The box was often confused, the car response all a bit fly by wire and laggy. Floor it from stand still, great. Every day driving, often annoying.
Perhaps 1200 miles wasn't long enough work out all the "rules" or master the "technique".

Was that a 7 speed or 6?

 

[Matt Titanium]

Was that a 7 speed or 6?

6. I've never tried a 7

 

[vamos]

I can believe dropping it into s mode while simultaneously flooring it would confuse the hell out of the dsg.
I usually put it into s mode and wait a few seconds for the box to select the gear for the speed I’m at. Then I floor the hell out of it.

 

[4K]

Just had a software update on mine today and it's rectified quite a few of these issues.

 

[James.B8]

Just had a software update on mine today and it's rectified quite a few of these issues.

Was this done free of charge by Audi?

 

[Richierich37]

Our 2016 FL S3 does exactly the same unfortunately! It’s as if the DSG box initially selects the wrong gear then changes its mind causing the car to pause before accelerating away. Pretty dangerous and has prevented me from wanting to over take on a few occasions. Now I just sit at 40 mph and try to get 300 miles out a tank. #wasteofafastcarformenow

 

[Deleted member 117185]

I too get this but I have a golf 7r. 6 speed dsg. It’s like the throttle cuts for maybe 1/2 a second for me and it jolts me forward like you wouldn’t believe. Only seems to be when in sport. I think it’s the most apparent when I drop it into sport and then floor it and engage kickdown. Kind of want a Dsg tcu Map to see if this resolves the issues or not. On another note, I’m not sure if this issue has only started happening since I fit my jb4, does anyone have a jb1 or jb4 to confirm?

I think the best thing to do would be to use manual mode.

 

[Lehn]

Just to be 100% sure, is this what you're experiencing? For me it sounds like what you guys are describing are a lot worse than that.



Audi's answer:

 

[4K]

Was this done free of charge by Audi?

Of course. Mine's still under warranty. Think the S-Tronic memory was reset too. Mine is PFL though. There was a bulletin out on the gearbox.

 

[mikemod]

In 12 years of driving DSG/S Tronic cars I have used "S" mode about three times to try it and always found it never did what I wanted so I never use it.
"D" mode in traffic, manual mode everywhere else.

 

[4K]

In 12 years of driving DSG/S Tronic cars I have used "S" mode about three times to try it and always found it never did what I wanted so I never use it.
"D" mode in traffic, manual mode everywhere else.

I would've got rid of the S3 by now if I could/would only drive it in 'D' mode. S is the only fun thing about this car, other than that it's pretty soulless. D mode has all the Drive-By-Wire lag between the gearbox and throttle that makes hard acceleration/overtakes near impossible and painful.

 

[DrMal]

Had my first oil change service yesterday (Perth Audi, about £50 cheaper than Edinburgh and great service). Mentioned this on book-in. Didn't expect anything to come of it, but interestingly they reported that they'd replicated it on a test drive, no fault found and escalated to Audi Germany. I take it with a slight pinch of salt and doubt Ingolstadt will do anything, but at least something got logged.

 

[James.B8]

Of course. Mine's still under warranty. Think the S-Tronic memory was reset too. Mine is PFL though. There was a bulletin out on the gearbox.

That’s good to hear. Mines a PFL also

 

[mikemod]

I would've got rid of the S3 by now if I could/would only drive it in 'D' mode. S is the only fun thing about this car, other than that it's pretty soulless. D mode has all the Drive-By-Wire lag between the gearbox and throttle that makes hard acceleration/overtakes near impossible and painful.

That's why I said I only use D mode in traffic, hardly much point in S mode when sitting in a queue.
I find the car in manual is the best mode when wanting to have a but of fun, never really saw the point of S

 

[ictus_duplo2]

Had my first oil change service yesterday (Perth Audi, about £50 cheaper than Edinburgh and great service). Mentioned this on book-in. Didn't expect anything to come of it, but interestingly they reported that they'd replicated it on a test drive, no fault found and escalated to Audi Germany. I take it with a slight pinch of salt and doubt Ingolstadt will do anything, but at least something got logged.

Used Perth when visiting my Mum as was cheaper than Glasgow and the person I spoke to actually knew what they were talking about. Will use again.

 

[MaxBoostMRC]

My S3 Saloon use to do it then MRC remapped the gearbox and never happened since.