Difference between stage 2 and 2+

[JamesS4cab]

As i have now completed stage 2 (ITG and MT TBE plus Revo software) I am tempted to call it quits on performance mods and start on the pretty stuff.

Just wondering if anyone can tell me from experience if I am going to notice a massive difference between stage 2 and the addition of the HPFP at £700+ with the extra software??

Its just that £700 gets me a FBMFSW or some new wheels and as I dont intend to track the car, is it really worth the extra ££?

Any thoughts most welcome.

 

[Jamiekip]

Mid range is significantly improved, you'll notice the difference... but beware you may need to upgrade the clutch

 

[JamesS4cab]

Thats what scares me - its not just the £700+ for the pump - its the circa £1k for the clutch!!

 

[AuldReekie]

The APR pump may cost that much, but there are countless of us running Autotech and KMD pumps with NO issues. Don't taken in by internet rumour mill about the scores of pump failures; you will need to keep an eye on the cam follower regardless of what pump you fit. These other pumps are significantly less expensive. I can't remember off the top of my head, but ~£300 mark. I got mine done at Stattler and they know their onions and have had no probs in the last ~12k. Then £50 to go 2+ with Revo.

My clutch is still holding out too having done ~12k. So many variables involved to say what will be the case with yours though. I will go uprated 'when' it fails, but until then I am modding the car based on what I want to do now, and not on the basis of what might happen.

Tis' up to you mate.

 

[JamesS4cab]

I have looked at the internals route but with the supply and build its looking like £400 + REVO so not overly cheap. I guess i need to try a 2+ car compared with my 2!

But how far do you go.........

 

[waring192]

I have just gone from stage 2+ to stage 1 for 2 weeks and its a massive difference! Would hate to feel what stock is like for a while. I think you notice the difference more when you downgrade rather than upgrade.

Sort the internals then pay revo £100 and you will be smiling all day long. Far much more return than jazzing up the car.

 

[jsws3]

avp in burton upon trend does arp internals for stock pumps for £230 fitted and he is a revo dealer as well

 

[JamesS4cab]

So whats the difference between all of these pumps?? (Did you mean APR?)

 

[waring192]

They are pretty much the same apart from the fact the APR has been tested...and it costs £750 new.

Im sure i read that some other big were slightly different, will try to locate the post.

 

[waring192]

They are pretty much the same apart from the fact the APR has been tested...and it costs £750 new.

Im sure i read that some other big were slightly different, will try to locate the post.

 

[akash_sky1]

HPFP will make your mid range loads better....++ extra fuel right where the K04 is boosting the most, it will make a big difference that can be felt.
Top end may not improve vastly but the power and torque curve beneath that will be much more of a big fat plateau after the boost kicks in then before,

 

[fernando young]

may i bump this? haha
does the fuel consumption increase much when upgrading the HPFP?

so basically it just helps the torque, but the over all engine power is pretty much the same between 2 and 2+?

 

[S3Alex]

may i bump this? haha
does the fuel consumption increase much when upgrading the HPFP?

so basically it just helps the torque, but the over all engine power is pretty much the same between 2 and 2+?

Fuel consumption only really goes up when you start using the extra power and torque.

The HPFP alone won't alter that but what it does do is to give you a moderate amount of extra midrange torque when the stock pump would be running short of flow at maximum load.

 

[tcardio]

you guys are too technical. The difference is simple...you smile much more!!!! Then depression occurs as you think about stage 3

 

[S3Alex]

you guys are too technical. The difference is simple...you smile much more!!!! Then depression occurs as you think about stage 3

Ahhh yes but the joy of Stage 5yvecs....lol

 

[S.]

you guys are too technical. The difference is simple...you smile much more!!!! Then depression occurs as you think about stage 3

Then if your turbo seals fail like mine you say well since i need a new turbo anyway lets give hybrid a go!

 

[fernando young]

Fuel consumption only really goes up when you start using the extra power and torque.

The HPFP alone won't alter that but what it does do is to give you a moderate amount of extra midrange torque when the stock pump would be running short of flow at maximum load.

so yeah it will consume more because who wont use that? haha

thanks for clearing my mind alex!

 

[desertstorm]

Might be a few more miles per gallon if you use the performance , but this is countered by a lot more smiles per gallon

 

[HHS3]

Then if your turbo seals fail like mine you say well since i need a new turbo anyway lets give hybrid a go!

That's rubbish to hear mate, although forcing your hand to get a hybrid turbo isn't all bad I suppose! Was there a specific reason why your turbo seals went? Is it a common issue on stage 2+ S3's?

 

[S3Alex]

That's rubbish to hear mate, although forcing your hand to get a hybrid turbo isn't all bad I suppose! Was there a specific reason why your turbo seals went? Is it a common issue on stage 2+ S3's?

I don't think it was a common issue,but not unknown.

At Stg2+,the stock turbo is being pushed pretty hard,certainly to the edge of it's map,and obviously higher mileage turbos will carry a risk of failure as well.

It's not confined to those either....the shaft on my GTX was found to be worn when it was stripped down(possibly due to the head damage,but not confirmed),and would have caused trouble at some point.

 

[S.]

That's rubbish to hear mate, although forcing your hand to get a hybrid turbo isn't all bad I suppose! Was there a specific reason why your turbo seals went? Is it a common issue on stage 2+ S3's?

Thanks!
No reason actually. It has 76k km, so about 47k miles. I rarely push the car, actually i rarely drive it. Never pushed when cold, serviced every 10k km or less, other parts always inspected when it was in for service. There was no mechanical damage to the turbo no weird noises just oil blowing through the seal on the exhaust side. I don't know mate i just put it to my bad luck. Still waiting for the car as the gearbox was taken apart to change selector forks and extend the input shaft. And we are still waiting for the input shaft! Should be fast and sweet to drive due to gearbox mod. Hopefuly i'll get it next week!

 

[HHS3]

I don't think it was a common issue,but not unknown.

At Stg2+,the stock turbo is being pushed pretty hard,certainly to the edge of it's map,and obviously higher mileage turbos will carry a risk of failure as well.

It's not confined to those either....the shaft on my GTX was found to be worn when it was stripped down(possibly due to the head damage,but not confirmed),and would have caused trouble at some point.

That's fair enough makes sense, is there any preventative/precautionary measures that can be done? Such as can the K04 turbo seals be replaced? If so then fitting new ones when going stage 2+ would be a good idea, I'm currently stage 2 at 62K and will probably be nearer 80K when stage 2+ comes.

Thanks!
No reason actually. It has 76k km, so about 47k miles. I rarely push the car, actually i rarely drive it. Never pushed when cold, serviced every 10k km or less, other parts always inspected when it was in for service. There was no mechanical damage to the turbo no weird noises just oil blowing through the seal on the exhaust side. I don't know mate i just put it to my bad luck. Still waiting for the car as the gearbox was taken apart to change selector forks and extend the input shaft. And we are still waiting for the input shaft! Should be fast and sweet to drive due to gearbox mod. Hopefuly i'll get it next week!

Wow that is some serious **** luck you've had there mate, especially when you consider that you looked after it meticulously, as well as the fact that 47K is not many miles either..

Nice one it will be interesting to see how your gearbox mod gets on, bet you can't wait to get it back it should be lovely to drive.

 

[S3Alex]

Easy enough for any good turbo remanufacturer to strip and replace the seals,provided any other damage isn't severe,but it's often the time that people consider the cost of a hybrid against refurbing the original.

 

[HHS3]

Easy enough for any good turbo remanufacturer to strip and replace the seals,provided any other damage isn't severe,but it's often the time that people consider the cost of a hybrid against refurbing the original.

Ah I see so it really is luck of the draw then whether or not they go, obviously looking after it correctly will help your chances but like in S.' case then it can happen to anyone regardless.

Just been reading more into it and see that it is a more of a complex problem rather than just simply an external rubber seal going.

 

[S.]

That's fair enough makes sense, is there any preventative/precautionary measures that can be done? Such as can the K04 turbo seals be replaced? If so then fitting new ones when going stage 2+ would be a good idea, I'm currently stage 2 at 62K and will probably be nearer 80K when stage 2+ comes.




Wow that is some serious **** luck you've had there mate, especially when you consider that you looked after it meticulously, as well as the fact that 47K is not many miles either..

Nice one it will be interesting to see how your gearbox mod gets on, bet you can't wait to get it back it should be lovely to drive.

There a cost to take turbo off and then to refurb it and fit it back. Worthless inmho if it's working as it won't be cheap.
There's a lot of turbo specialist now that can do a quality rebuild or rebuild it to the hybrid spec with billet wheels 360 bearings and so on.
I've seen ovens hybrid that spools much earlier than k04 and gives over 400bhp now thats fun to drive i think.
Yeah can't wait it's been over 2 months since i last drove it. We were waiting for the shaft for 3 weeks now but i really wanted to fix the shifting issues and i hope this will fix it.

Easy enough for any good turbo remanufacturer to strip and replace the seals,provided any other damage isn't severe,but it's often the time that people consider the cost of a hybrid against refurbing the original.

Exactly. I've got a great deal for hybrid so it made sense in my head.

 

[S3Alex]

Ah I see so it really is luck of the draw then whether or not they go, obviously looking after it correctly will help your chances but like in S.' case then it can happen to anyone regardless.

Just been reading more into it and see that it is a more of a complex problem rather than just simply an external rubber seal going.

There are a lot of factors,such as wear,how hard it's used etc etc,but basically these are oil seals within the turbo,around the bearings and when they fail,that's when you get the dreaded white smoke.

There a cost to take turbo off and then to refurb it and fit it back. Worthless inmho if it's working as it won't be cheap.
There's a lot of turbo specialist now that can do a quality rebuild or rebuild it to the hybrid spec with billet wheels 360 bearings and so on.
I've seen ovens hybrid that spools much earlier than k04 and gives over 400bhp now thats fun to drive i think.
Yeah can't wait it's been over 2 months since i last drove it. We were waiting for the shaft for 3 weeks now but i really wanted to fix the shifting issues and i hope this will fix it.


Exactly. I've got a great deal for hybrid so it made sense in my head.

Definitely....there are a lot more options around now than when I started hacking my car around.....Loba/TTE/Owens etc.

A hybrid makes a lot of sense at that sort of stage,without going to the expenses of a turbo kit and internals.

LOL.....when I get the car back it will have been off the road for nearly 10mths for various reasons.

 

[leshkin]

Then if your turbo seals fail like mine you say well since i need a new turbo anyway lets give hybrid a go!

Or your engine suffers from oil starvation and you buy a new engine, together with a new TTE420 for good measure

 

[S3Alex]

Or your engine suffers from oil starvation and you buy a new engine, together with a new TTE420 for good measure

That's how a professional deals with that little problem!

 

[leshkin]

That's how a professional deals with that little problem!

Haha, that... Or someone with an undiagnosed mental disorder

 

[S3Alex]

Haha, that... Or someone with an undiagnosed mental disorder

That's you and me both.....

 

[fernando young]

That's you and me both.....

i think it is contagious, i've seen more than a couple influenced by you