H&R Sport Springs vs Eibach Pro-Kit

[Sayam]

Good afternoon peeps

Ok so at the moment I'm not loving the car as much as I should be...the cruise control has been fitted and works beautifully (thanks Nigel) but the ride is too hard.

Next problem...the springs. As I do a lot of motorway mileage I find the current Eibach Sportline springs too harsh for the long journeys and want to change to something comfier.

The car is black edition and as far as I understand from factory is lowered approx 20mm compared to SE. The 2 options I've been looking at is H&R sport springs or Eibach pro-kit as the H&R OE springs would probably result in the dreaded factory arch/tyre gap returning.

The best way to describe my requirements is that the Sportlines are spot on, but in some instances I'd just wish the edge could be taken off.

The H&R website says the Sport springs lower between 37.5 and 45mm.

The Eibach Sportlines (currently on the car) lower between 42.5 and 57.7mm.

The Eibach Pro-Kit lower between 25 and 37.5mm.

So based on the above the Pro-Kit are the way forward however, I have no experience of spring rates and therefore can't assume the Pro-Kit will be more comfortable because the spring itself may be harsh in its damping effect?

I dunno, that's the limit of my knowledge of suspension hence I'm asking for advice.

Fire away...

 

[MAD_Adamski]

i have no idea on the spring ratings on them but i have the eibach 30mm drop and am very pleased with them!

 

[smurfworth]

H&R's are known to be a harder ride. i wouldn't lower it at all if your complaining about the ride comfort when on lowering springs.

 

[Gazwould]

Pro kit is comfy.

However ride quality comes from the dampers, I'd start there, especially if they are oem and been on there a while, even unleaking dampers weakness can be shown up especially by stronger springs.

 

[S3_Jacko]

I had eibachs 30mm drop on my old A3 and the ride was harder than a whores heart! I've just purchased 25mm h&rs for the S3 and i'm hoping that the ride comfort isnt gonna be comprimised too much from the standard setup or they are going to be ripped back off again! I'm getting too old to worry about looks now... I want a comprimise of looks and comfort... Want to at least be able to drive my car an enjoy it!

 

[Sayam]

Lol, the dilema is that although I want it comfy I also want to get rid of some of the arch gap that exists despite the sline/black edition suspension being approx 20mm lower than standard.

Gazwould, I'd love to swap the dampers but to be honest I haven't got the budget to do it, the car is on 100K but it's all motorway mileage.

I do genuinely love the ride with the sportlines (most of the time) like when you're coming off a slip road and there's a mahoosive board that says max speed 40/50mph and I can hold XXmph round the bend lol I love that stuff...just wish it was a touch softer.

Smurfworth that's the kind of info I'd like...if the H&R are known to be harsher than Eibach I may as well go with the pro kit?

 

[Fanboy]

H&r is a lot better, two of mates have them on their s3 and 3.2 v6 and both are happy, a bit pricy though...

I've got AP X coils on my 3.2 and I love the ride, lowered 60mm and still good and comfy ride

I suggest to go for coils as dampers will get ****ed soon if u just wanna change the springs... I've tried it myself and ****ed me over , the ride wasn't good also...

 

[smurfworth]

i wouldn't say you'll gain a huge amount of comfort in swapping to the pro kit. i had H&R springs on my sport dampers, i found the ride fine but became bouncy as the months went on, the car was only on 70k at the time.

Somehow i find ap coilovers comfier than the springs were, its slightly harder but more controlled so it doesn't appear rough and bouncy.

what size alloys do you have as the sidewall and wheel size effect the comfort more than changing suspension does

 

[c_w]

i wouldn't say you'll gain a huge amount of comfort in swapping to the pro kit. i had H&R springs on my sport dampers, i found the ride fine but became bouncy as the months went on, the car was only on 70k at the time.

Somehow i find ap coilovers comfier than the springs were, its slightly harder but more controlled so it doesn't appear rough and bouncy.

As mentioned - and I would agree - generally speaking with similar spec springs it's the damper mainly that controls, and has a massive effect on, the ride. Lowering springs on the standard "Sport" dampers (which are really just normal dampers) isn't going to give a great ride, a stiffer damper can actually give a better ride like you find with the coilovers because everything's more controlled and just better "damped".

 

[Sayam]

Thank you everyone who has replied so far.

I had 19" with 225/35/19 but these might as well have been made from concrete, since then I've changed to 18" wheels with 225/40/18 they improved the comfort loads!

If I don't have the budget for springs and dampers would what do you think of just changing back to the factory black edition springs? And living with the arch gap...

 

[Fanboy]

Yeah but how much would be the gap... 10mm is usual!

 

[Persian]

Save up and get coils I made the mistake and went with lowering springs (H&R) and now my stock dampers/shocks are gone terrible over a hump real slow yet car feels like a bouncy castle!

 

[DPM]

Between H&R and Eibach springs I'd personally go for the Eibachs.

Damian @ DPM Performance

 

[TDents84]

Good afternoon peeps

Ok so at the moment I'm not loving the car as much as I should be...the cruise control has been fitted and works beautifully (thanks Nigel) but the ride is too hard.

Next problem...the springs. As I do a lot of motorway mileage I find the current Eibach Sportline springs too harsh for the long journeys and want to change to something comfier.

The car is black edition and as far as I understand from factory is lowered approx 20mm compared to SE. The 2 options I've been looking at is H&R sport springs or Eibach pro-kit as the H&R OE springs would probably result in the dreaded factory arch/tyre gap returning.

The best way to describe my requirements is that the Sportlines are spot on, but in some instances I'd just wish the edge could be taken off.

The H&R website says the Sport springs lower between 37.5 and 45mm.

The Eibach Sportlines (currently on the car) lower between 42.5 and 57.7mm.

The Eibach Pro-Kit lower between 25 and 37.5mm.

So based on the above the Pro-Kit are the way forward however, I have no experience of spring rates and therefore can't assume the Pro-Kit will be more comfortable because the spring itself may be harsh in its damping effect?

I dunno, that's the limit of my knowledge of suspension hence I'm asking for advice.

Fire away...

Hey man, so you got cruise retro fitted? It's the main thing I'm missing from my mark 6 golf. That and lumbar support! Amazing that Audi wouldn't fit lumbar as standard! I didn't even think to check.. Aaaaaanyway.. Tell me more about cruise control. Where, what, how..

Cheers

 

[DJ_26]

Thank you everyone who has replied so far.

I had 19" with 225/35/19 but these might as well have been made from concrete, since then I've changed to 18" wheels with 225/40/18 they improved the comfort loads!

If I don't have the budget for springs and dampers would what do you think of just changing back to the factory black edition springs? And living with the arch gap...

I'm on the 18s with stock S-Line suspension and even then I think the ride could be better! I can't imagine how it rides on 19s! Around those swooping bends that you described earlier though, the stock suspension does fairly well in keeping the car level.

My mate has the Vogtland springs and shocks fitted to his car and it seemed to ride well, definitely not as harsh as the stock S-Line suspension. I can't compare it to either the Eibach or H&R setups as I haven't experienced those. DPM performance do them for about £360 iirc.

 

[downtothebone]

I went from 50mm h&r to 30mm eibach. Prefer the Eibachs - on fresh tarmac the h&r's win hands down. Main concern I had was on the standard Sline dampers the h&r springs were so compressed that the top/bottom of the coils had rubbed against each other removing the outer paint coating and rust had begun to set in.

 

[Gazwould]

You really needed shorter Bilstein B8 dampers with the H&R .

 

[TDents84]

I'm on the 18s with stock S-Line suspension and even then I think the ride could be better! I can't imagine how it rides on 19s! Around those swooping bends that you described earlier though, the stock suspension does fairly well in keeping the car level.

My mate has the Vogtland springs and shocks fitted to his car and it seemed to ride well, definitely not as harsh as the stock S-Line suspension. I can't compare it to either the Eibach or H&R setups as I haven't experienced those. DPM performance do them for about £360 iirc.

DJ, how do you find the stock S Line suspension at cruising speeds on motorways 80/85mph + ? I find it so skittish on the standard set up. It just doesn't seem to settle down. I have Koni FSD Dampers fitted with the S Line springs - I'm going to upgrade to Eibach pro's soon.

 

[Sayam]

Hey man, so you got cruise retro fitted? It's the main thing I'm missing from my mark 6 golf. That and lumbar support! Amazing that Audi wouldn't fit lumbar as standard! I didn't even think to check.. Aaaaaanyway.. Tell me more about cruise control. Where, what, how..

Cheers

Where - I believe it was the services at J10 on the M25

What - Nigel ( @NHN ) came and retrofitted it including coding, testing it works etc

How - ask Nigel

Jokes aside, easily the best money I've ever spent on a car. So useful for doing 30 in a 30 zone when there's a speed camera van there, or 50 in an average 50 on the motorway, etc etc...

On the A404 (links the M40 to the M4) if you get it just right you pause the cruise control up to the round about, go round and as you take the exit if you flick it at just the right time the DSG box will kick down, the cruise will sort the speed out and all I have to do is steer its awesome lol.

 

[DJ_26]

DJ, how do you find the stock S Line suspension at cruising speeds on motorways 80/85mph + ? I find it so skittish on the standard set up. It just doesn't seem to settle down. I have Koni FSD Dampers fitted with the S Line springs - I'm going to upgrade to Eibach pro's soon.

The Stock S-line suspension on the motorway is as you described, a bit skittish. It seems to find all the bad bits of the road and puts them through the cabin. It reacts with high frequency hops or "jiggling". It only likes smooth new roads haha. The only time it's "ok" is when you go slowly over speed humps, it feels kind of solid (like good build quality, if you know what I mean) and also feels good on high speed bends where the steering weights up nicely, but the second the road straightens up, the steering goes back to being light again. But other than that it's not really comfortable on the motorway. I have just dealt with it. The 13 year old Ford Fiesta we used to have (with worn original suspension) was so nice to drive on the same roads, it was revolutionary! I also have Powerflex front wishbone bushes which probably makes the ride a little firmer too.

 

[TDents84]

The Stock S-line suspension on the motorway is as you described, a bit skittish. It seems to find all the bad bits of the road and puts them through the cabin. It reacts with high frequency hops or "jiggling". It only likes smooth new roads haha. The only time it's "ok" is when you go slowly over speed humps, it feels kind of solid (like good build quality, if you know what I mean) and also feels good on high speed bends where the steering weights up nicely, but the second the road straightens up, the steering goes back to being light again. But other than that it's not really comfortable on the motorway. I have just dealt with it. The 13 year old Ford Fiesta we used to have (with worn original suspension) was so nice to drive on the same roads, it was revolutionary! I also have Powerflex front wishbone bushes which probably makes the ride a little firmer too.

Couldn't agree more. The only time it feels pleasant is going over speed bumps at low speed and even then the speed bumps have to be a particular type! Bah, it's so frustrating - I just wouldn't expect this from Audi. I'm also kicking myself for not insisting that I took the car on a motorway test drive.

I'll likely get the Eibach pro kit after January, hopefully the 'progressive springs' I've read about will do a sufficient job. What are your longer term plans for the car? Also, assuming you have the OEM 18s fitted to yours? Have you given consideration to reducing the wheels size?

 

[Sayam]

Please for the love of God and all that is Holy don't reduce the wheel size!

 

[TDents84]

Please for the love of God and all that is Holy don't reduce the wheel size!

Haha, Don't worry, it's very unlikely! From reading past posts I see that you had the same dilemma as DJ and I regarding the S-Line suspension set up. You solved yours with Eibach pro kit if I remember rightly. I'm booking mine into AMD Essex to have the same!

 

[Sayam]

Haha, Don't worry, it's very unlikely! From reading past posts I see that you had the same dilemma as DJ and I regarding the S-Line suspension set up. You solved yours with Eibach pro kit if I remember rightly. I'm booking mine into AMD Essex to have the same!

Yeah the pro-kit solves the comfort nicely, what angers me is the reverse rake audi put in the car from factory (front sits higher than back) which really messes with my OCD lol...

 

[TDents84]

Yeah the pro-kit solves the comfort nicely, what angers me is the reverse rake audi put in the car from factory (front sits higher than back) which really messes with my OCD lol...

I've heard of reverse rake being an issue but could that not just be that the fenders at the back are a little lower than they are at the front and in actual fact, the car is sitting evenly?

 

[Gazwould]

It doesn't sit higher at the front , it's that the front arch is taller to allow the turning of the wheels without arch contact under compression.

 

[TDents84]

It doesn't sit higher at the front , it's that the front arch is taller to allow the turning of the wheels without arch contact under compression.

Agreed, and frankly, I'd rather it that way round than suffer any tyre scub.

Gazwould, may I just comment on the very handsome Quattro you have. Do you also have an A3?

 

[Sayam]

You are right, but take this as an example.

My friends 2006 1 series M Sport. Forget the super stiff suspension, but the car sits level and flat and either the wheels are wider or the offset lower, but they (he has the 17" wheels) fill the arches much better than an OEM A3 on 18" wheels...

I'm sure Audi could also design the car such that the front wheels can turn without hitting anything even with suspension compressed, but anyway that's just me ranting.

Have read you can fit TT rear spring helpers which are taller so may have a look at that to be honest.

Back to the OP, the pro-kit is perfect solution to fix the handling and ride quality!

 

[TDents84]

You are right, but take this as an example.

My friends 2006 1 series M Sport. Forget the super stiff suspension, but the car sits level and flat and either the wheels are wider or the offset lower, but they (he has the 17" wheels) fill the arches much better than an OEM A3 on 18" wheels...

I'm sure Audi could also design the car such that the front wheels can turn without hitting anything even with suspension compressed, but anyway that's just me ranting.

Have read you can fit TT rear spring helpers which are taller so may have a look at that to be honest.

Back to the OP, the pro-kit is perfect solution to fix the handling and ride quality!

His M Sport may sit flat but he has to drive a 1 series – Always a trade off

 

[Sayam]

His M Sport may sit flat but he has to drive a 1 series – Always a trade off

LOL can't argue with that!!

 

[Gazwould]

Agreed, and frankly, I'd rather it that way round than suffer any tyre scub.

Gazwould, may I just comment on the very handsome Quattro you have. Do you also have an A3?

No A3 and that red quattro is the Gene Genie's .

 

[TDents84]

No A3 and that red quattro is the Gene Genie's .

Silly me. What have you got then?

 

[Gazwould]

A 180 bhp 1.9 PD B5.5 Pissrat .

 

[c_w]

You are right, but take this as an example.

My friends 2006 1 series M Sport. Forget the super stiff suspension, but the car sits level and flat and either the wheels are wider or the offset lower, but they (he has the 17" wheels) fill the arches much better than an OEM A3 on 18" wheels...

I'm sure Audi could also design the car such that the front wheels can turn without hitting anything even with suspension compressed, but anyway that's just me ranting.

Have read you can fit TT rear spring helpers which are taller so may have a look at that to be honest.

Back to the OP, the pro-kit is perfect solution to fix the handling and ride quality!

The "problem" is the rear arch is lower than the front, so with equal arch gap the car is nose-down (look at the sill angle). With the 1-series the rear arch is probably less different to the front.

The TT is a good example as both arches are pretty much equal sized.

It is slightly annoying because sometimes it makes the back look too low, but with more equal arch gaps the car looks quite raked.

 

[Donny_DJ]

Haha, Don't worry, it's very unlikely! From reading past posts I see that you had the same dilemma as DJ and I regarding the S-Line suspension set up. You solved yours with Eibach pro kit if I remember rightly. I'm booking mine into AMD Essex to have the same!

Yeah they're offering free fitting if you buy a Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit

http://www.amdtuning.com/audi/a3/8p...-suspension-upgrades-32/bilstein-suspension-0

 

[TDents84]

I've already got the Koni FSDs fitted though. Be silly to plump for new dampers when mine aren't more than a year old - although ideally shocks and dampers would be fresh out the box at the same time. I can't remember if you've commented, you're on Bilsteins right? No ones got Koni's FSDs that I can talk to :/

 

[Sayam]

The "problem" is the rear arch is lower than the front, so with equal arch gap the car is nose-down (look at the sill angle). With the 1-series the rear arch is probably less different to the front.

The TT is a good example as both arches are pretty much equal sized.

It is slightly annoying because sometimes it makes the back look too low, but with more equal arch gaps the car looks quite raked.

It just looks awful to me. Almost like you've fitted SE front springs on a sport or s-line suspension car lol making it really high at the front lol.

I've already got the Koni FSDs fitted though. Be silly to plump for new dampers when mine aren't more than a year old - although ideally shocks and dampers would be fresh out the box at the same time. I can't remember if you've commented, you're on Bilsteins right? No ones got Koni's FSDs that I can talk to :/

What would you like to know about them? A very good friend of mine and all round good guy Nigel had them on his car for ages so I can ask him...

 

[Donny_DJ]

I've already got the Koni FSDs fitted though. Be silly to plump for new dampers when mine aren't more than a year old - although ideally shocks and dampers would be fresh out the box at the same time. I can't remember if you've commented, you're on Bilsteins right? No ones got Koni's FSDs that I can talk to :/

If you've already got Koni FSDs (which i've also heard good things about) marry them up with Eibach Pro-Kit springs and Bob's your uncle. @DPM has already recommended them above. Yeah I have Billies which have been brilliant!

 

[DJ_26]

Couldn't agree more. The only time it feels pleasant is going over speed bumps at low speed and even then the speed bumps have to be a particular type! Bah, it's so frustrating - I just wouldn't expect this from Audi. I'm also kicking myself for not insisting that I took the car on a motorway test drive.

I'll likely get the Eibach pro kit after January, hopefully the 'progressive springs' I've read about will do a sufficient job. What are your longer term plans for the car? Also, assuming you have the OEM 18s fitted to yours? Have you given consideration to reducing the wheels size?

Agreed the speed bumps have to be a particular type! If I ever get round to changing my shock absorbers then I may look into some of the kits mentioned here, but in the meantime, if none of them are broke, I won't be fixing it! I have the OEM 18s fitted to the car, but I don't think I will be downsizing the wheels; 18s suit the A3 in my opinion, more so if the car is lowered.

In terms of long-term plans, I will be refurbishing my standard wheels and I may fit some wheel spacers as the rear wheels sit inside the arch a bit more than I like. But then comes the temptation to lower the car! If the shocks are all ruined then I will consider upgrading the suspension. Also wouldn't mind the front bumper being re-sprayed due to the multiple stone chips, but this isn't urgent or necessary. It's a mile muncher so you can see why. Maybe some MY11 facelift rear lights too.

 

[madmads]

I've already got the Koni FSDs fitted though. Be silly to plump for new dampers when mine aren't more than a year old - although ideally shocks and dampers would be fresh out the box at the same time. I can't remember if you've commented, you're on Bilsteins right? No ones got Koni's FSDs that I can talk to :/

Just bought Koni FSD's and Eibach Pro Kit 30mm. And I'm going from some TA-Technix coilovers, and they are horrible, so im really looking forward to the swap! Now you got someone to talk about FSD's with