Audi RS5 TDI concept

[mark0006]

If Audi goes in diesel direction for their mega cars I will be an even bigger fan. Now lets see the R8 in diesel








From the article:
The engine produces 385 PS (283 kW) and 750 Nm (553 lb-ft) of torque and is connected to an eight-speed automatic transmission which sends power to a quattro all-wheel drive. This setup enables the coupe to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in approximately four seconds, hit a top speed in excess of 280 km/h (174 mph) and consume less than 5 L/100km (47 mpg US / 56.4 mpg UK).

13 pictures and details

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[Swanny356]

They already did the R8 TDI back in 2008 but never released it. V12 5.9 so probably just two 3.0 TDI V6's bolted together, long ways of course!

Never did understand why it didn't happen.

 

[kanecullen89]

They already did the R8 TDI back in 2008 but never released it. V12 5.9 so probably just two 3.0 TDI V6's bolted together, long ways of course!

Never did understand why it didn't happen.

Back in the day when the R8 TDI was being showcased they claimed that they couldn't make it because they couldn't find a gearbox and clutch strong enough for it's every day use.
I think with the advancement in technology over a few years this should be overcome now

 

[mark0006]

They already did the R8 TDI back in 2008 but never released it. V12 5.9 so probably just two 3.0 TDI V6's bolted together, long ways of course!

Never did understand why it didn't happen.

Had no idea, that car should be made.

 

[warren_S5]

I've always been surprised with all the Le Mans wins that Audi haven't proactively tried to do more with the TDi engines. Personal view is that up until the new bi-turbo their road car TDi's are actually some way behind BMW in terms of efficiency (MPG) so for all the racing successes it's taking an age for cutting edge to drip feed and translate into anything lairy in the upper echelons of S/RS. Whilst they are a way of delivering good power wouldn't personally be my cup of tea, but for many it might be a way into RS ownership. Be intriguing to see if they make a next gen model in RS guise, or whether the lacklustre sales of diesel M550d etc. will make them think the market is not really ready.

 

[desertstorm]

Awesome, only a matter of time before Audi came up with somethng like this. A new version of the 3.0 V6 twin turbo TDI with an eletrically powered compressor to keep the engine on song. Genuine performance with economy to match.

Audi RS5 V6 TDI-e prototype first drive Review | Autocar

Karl

 

[Shrek5]

Talk of electric turbo/super-chargers always makes me think of this:


I'm guess the Audi system is slightly more advanced than that...

 

[desertstorm]

You can be sure the electric boost is nothing like the cheap electric superchargers you get on Ebay. For a start it's running on 48V and not 12v.

 

[warren_S5]

You can be sure the electric boost is nothing like the cheap electric superchargers you get on Ebay. For a start it's running on 48V and not 12v.

Yet as good as it is....

Quote Autocar: LINK

From a standing start, the RS5 had the measure of the RS6 for the first couple of seconds, before the RS6 pulled away. There’s no doubt that that this engine gets away from rest very quickly indeed. But after that the wall of seamless torque never seems to let up.

For all that bi-turbo supercharging magic you'd have imagined that it would have shown a clean pair of heels to the petrol equivalent, yet it doesn't.... quite. Granted, it's a ****** good showcase, but diesels are naturally quick cars anyway so I'm a bit surprised it's not quicker.

 

[Shrek5]

You can be sure the electric boost is nothing like the cheap electric superchargers you get on Ebay. For a start it's running on 48V and not 12v.

I'm pretty confident that the fact it's on its own 48v circuit is one of many, many reasons why an OEM e-booster won't be crap like the eBay specials! Tongue was firmly in cheek.

 

[VAG_BADGER]

Yet as good as it is....

Quote Autocar: LINK

From a standing start, the RS5 had the measure of the RS6 for the first couple of seconds, before the RS6 pulled away. There’s no doubt that that this engine gets away from rest very quickly indeed. But after that the wall of seamless torque never seems to let up.

For all that bi-turbo supercharging magic you'd have imagined that it would have shown a clean pair of heels to the petrol equivalent, yet it doesn't.... quite. Granted, it's a ****** good showcase, but diesels are naturally quick cars anyway so I'm a bit surprised it's not quicker.

Petrol equivalent? The RS6 is of similar weight, has 560PS and, thanks to the turbos, 700nm of torque. Not exactly a fair comparison really, like putting an S3 up against an S5 and being surprised it lost.

Who knows why they didn't put it against the RS5 V8. Would have been far more interesting, especially in gear!

 

[warren_S5]

The RS5 has no turbos or charger so not sure that's a like for like comparison either given the diesel is bi-turbo & electric charged.

 

[VAG_BADGER]

The RS5 has no turbos or charger so not sure that's a like for like comparison either given the diesel is bi-turbo & electric charged.

The RS5 is a 4.2 V8 420PS? Superior capacity, more BHP and less weight. It just lacks torque in comparison, which it makes up for with the high revving design. If anything this the fair race for the diesel (if you're going as close the like for like as possible) would be the S5? Same capacity, forced induction with high pressure injection.

I guess the point I'm making is if you go back 10 years people were saying it's not a fair comparison between a 3.0 diesel & 3.0 petrol etc because the petrol had the unfair advantage of a higher rev range, with the advancement in technology it's now vice versa! Give the RS division the 4.0 V8 TDI to put in the 4G platform and it would be fair, and probably embarrassing!

 

[mark0006]

I would thing the electric SC would have instant torque at low rpm.

 

[warren_S5]

The RS5 is a 4.2 V8 420PS? Superior capacity, more BHP and less weight. It just lacks torque in comparison, which it makes up for with the high revving design. If anything this the fair race for the diesel (if you're going as close the like for like as possible) would be the S5? Same capacity, forced induction with high pressure injection.

I guess the point I'm making is if you go back 10 years people were saying it's not a fair comparison between a 3.0 diesel & 3.0 petrol etc because the petrol had the unfair advantage of a higher rev range, with the advancement in technology it's now vice versa! Give the RS division the 4.0 V8 TDI to put in the 4G platform and it would be fair, and probably embarrassing!

We could sit here all day trying to pitch the most comparative benchmark, but to be honest a good chunk of the people who could afford this kind of car probably still wouldn't necessarily choose the diesel equivalent. I can't remember the last time I was in an S/RS forum and people were bemoaning the fact their cars were petrol. I think it's great Audi are finding innovative ways to refine the product, I'd always applaud that, I just wish they'd actually make it (and then see who buys it) if it's a relevant proposition.

 

[Shrek5]

I always said I didn't see why they had not put the BiTDi into the A5 range but now that I have an S5 I do... In essence although the power outputs are similar, the experience is totally different. Also, within the A5 range, the BiTDi would displace the 3.0 V6T (or if it was an 'A', be more expensive than the S5) and it just isn't the same.

It is a great engine, I got the chance to see it in action in an A7 and, not a direct comparison, it was extremely competent but now I am lucky enough to own an 'S' it appeals on a different level. If I was offered the S5 in petrol or BiTDi form I am 99% certain I would go for it in petrol form.

In the bigger cruisers the engine makes a lot of sense, refined, powerful and very able to 'waft at pace' but as said I don't think a lot of S/RS owners would go out and buy a diesel variant.

 

[VAG_BADGER]

I've grown up with the TDI revolution and can honestly say, if you offered me a TDI RS5 and a V8 RS5, I'd go for the oil burner every time. Fuel consumption is irrelevant for me, I just really enjoy the usability of a Diesel engine without having to 'work it'. 45MPG on the motorway from the 3.0 TDI is just a bonus! I like lazy driving and riding the low down torque wave, figures on paper mean nothing to me. It's personal preference but you can say you've found someone who would go out and buy a diesel variant, regardless of price or MPG. I've just gone back to a diesel from my 2011 S3 2+ for the exact reasons I state above.

I'm just old enough to remember how up in arms people were when Range Rover offered the diesel unit. 'Who'd want that' they said. That is now said at the mention of the V8 petrol. Not a performance car I know... I think if you gave RS5 owners this prototype for a week it would provoke some PX's! Just the idea of it is 'wrong'. The RS5 is the ideal starting point for Audi as it's a performance car people tend to use every day. Making an R8 TDI wouldn't be as successful IMO as people tend to have it in the garage for special occasions.

Please don't think I'm arguing a 'right & wrong' case here, I know I'm in the minority with my Derv preferences!

 

[VAG_BADGER]

I would thing the electric SC would have instant torque at low rpm.

I think I'm right in saying the ESC is just a means to reduce turbo lag, as opposed to increase power or torque overall as it just creates a means to spool the smaller turbo before the exhaust gas can. This is why nobody can compete with Mercedes in the F1 at the moment, they have this system built in to the turbo housing and powered by KERS.

 

[warren_S5]

Please don't think I'm arguing a 'right & wrong' case here, I know I'm in the minority with my Derv preferences!

I'm of the same view, I'm not vehemently against diesels by any stretch, I love the 3.0TDi and bi-turbo diesel engine. I did experiment once (for 4 months) with a diesel in a SEAT FR model but it just didn't resonate with me at all. It wasn't it's ability, it was the way it delivered the experience that wasn't in tune with my personal preference. In comparison I much prefer the 3.0TDi engine, and I did drive one before deciding to go with the S5, but I'd have to be doing stratospheric mileage and be averse to fuel stops to consider it the right option.

Likewise I have an STronic box in the S5 (had no choice), and it's very good, but I'm not 100% sold on that either! It's better at changing gear than I'll ever be, and it makes all sorts of sense for UK road conditions to have one, but I'm not sure I feel passionate about it (yet).

I have a vision of what my preferred driving experience is. It involves a V petrol engine, a manual gearbox, and a decent dollop of rev range. I used to think it would be NA, but I'm not opposed to a bit of subtle forced induction as long as it doesn't overwhelm the whole experience. Unlike many RWD is not my Utopia as I prefer a bit of safety net to compensate my lack of ability so a 60/40 R to F split does nicely. For me that delivers an experience that gives me that momentary warm feeling when it all comes together on the right road that makes the rather large bills seem irrelevant.

However I respect your view, and your preference as there is always more than one way to crack a nut. I keep an open mind, and keep trying the alternatives, but what I really respect about you is you are a diesel owner with a very balanced viewpoint, so kudos to you. The day I have to read another petrol vs, diesel (or manual vs. Stronic) 'which is best' thread I'll quite fancy hanging up my moderator stirrups and make for the hills! The hours I'll never get back!