Tyre condition on Quattro vs diff and tyre opinons

[Quattrodude]

Hi,
I had my tracking adjusted today as the near side front has irregular wear and the guy at National Tyres has also written off the tyre.
I asked whether I should need 2 new tyres because of the 4 wheel drive system and after checking with one of his colleagues they say it is recommended to have 4 decent tyres as this allows the car to qualify for Audi's lifetime warranty of the diff system should it fail.
They did however say that the 2 rears were ok, although half worn.
I had a quote of £400 for 2 x 235x18" contis which was £30 less than the price that came up on the system.
I am however intrigued as to whether what they told me about the lifetime warranty is true.
Also, I'm considering upgrading the alloys seeing as I need to spend at least £400 on new tyres as I think I could probably still get a few hundred for my stock rims with current tyres.
I quite like the rotor arm style alloys which are available at some non OEM alloy wheel suppliers, however, once you start putting 4 x continentals on, you're talking big bucks !
My view is that having a Quattro means that you should always have premium tyres on the car, however, does anyone disagree with this and can therefore recommend a cheaper alternative brand which is not detrimental to the handling of the car?
Cheers
Chris

 

[desertstorm]

I believe Audi recommend that the tyres should all be the same make and have similar tread levels. This is because tyres made by different manufacturers of the same size actually vary in their circumference and as the quattro is full time 4WD this could put some strain on the centre diff.
Worst case scenario is something like brand new tyres on end of the car and very well worn on the other end. This would mean the centre diff would be working all the time to match the wheel speeds front and rear.
The quote for tyres is silly, You are better off getting them from somewhere like Camskill and getting them fitted.

I presume they are 235 / 40/ 18 tyres.
I like the Good year Eagle F1 tyres £115 each from Camskill

Goodyear Tyres / Car / Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 - 235/40 R18 95Y XL (FO) FP TL Fuel Eff.: E Wet Grip: C NoiseClass: 2 Noise: 72dB Car Tyres - MPV Tyres - People Carrier Tyres - 18" R18" - 235/40/18, 235/40R18

The Continental Contisport Contact 5 £121

Continental Tyres / Car / Continental ContiSportContact 5 Continental Conti Sport Contact 5 - 235/40 R18 95Y XL FR TL Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: 2 Noise: 72dB Car Tyres - MPV Tyres - People Carrier Tyres - 18" R18" - 235/40/18, 235/40R18

Two of these with the postage £248 most tyre places will put a tyre on for around £15 each so £248 +£30 = £278 . £120 cheaper than you were quoted.

Karl.

 

[jdp1962]

This is a personal view. I have always replaced tyres in matched sets of four on every car I've owned, and even if I didn't, I would definitely do so on a quattro. I've never heard of Audi providing a lifetime warranty on the diffs, but it is definitely the case that the diffs will wear more if tyres of different make, tread pattern and/or depth are fitted.

As to tyre brands, essentially you get what you pay for, regardless of the car they're fitted. For some years, I've run my A4s on Falken tyres. They're mid-range in price and very good. But I've just recently fitted a set of Dunlop Sport Maxx RTs, and they're better. £558 for a set of four 235/40x18s.

Having the tracking adjusted may not be sufficient; I'd recommend a full four-wheel alignment by a Hunter & Beam equipped specialist.

 

[AlpineCab]

I agree with your sentiment about putting decent tyres on the quattro or indeed any half decent car, and I'd certainly always go matching fours and swap them front to rear every so often to even out the wear.

Got Uniroyal rainsport 2 at the moment and very happy with them, given said weather at the moment.

When I took the car to the dealers for the service I had odd sets front and rear (winter rear., summer front moreove!) as I'd just bought the motor. The guy commented on them as if I didn't realise, but no mention of any warrenty invalidation and car has got FASH.

Seems to be a bit of play somewhere (loose bushes or mounts? got the advisory but can't understand it as it's in French) and once that's sorted, then Audi allignement will be in order.

Aso found that the checking/maintaiing correct tyre pressures seem to more important here than in other cars I've had in terms of overall driviability if that makes sense

 

[Giosabcsl]

Hey Chris

Maybe I could be of some help. I will start off by saying that National tyres as a whole charge a lot for their tyres. Its as if they use there own mark up and live in there own world.

It is always suggested to replace 4 tyres as a whole on the Quattro system as a lot of information is not easily available as on our cars believe it or not the Quattro system takes the most strain from road surfaces as there is more resistance as there would be on say a gravel surface. And keeping all 4 tyres roughly the same tread just keeps the system in harmony.

As for the story you are being told. Personally I have never heard of this lifetime warranty on the diff system. So I would just take that with a pinch of salt and maybe just trying to persuade you to spend money.

Also as JDP suggested try and get a 14/18 point wheel alignment done either on the hunter or Beamn system. Some Audi centres do have this service thou are on the pricey side but you are roughly looking at around £70-£100. For the real deal.

Well the quattro system is a great system in its own right. But you not far off by putting a premium tyre on the vehicle but putting a lessor tyre on the vehicle is not going to upset it as much as you may think.

Just to quote from Desert Storms post about the Goodyears the AS2 are a very good tyre especially on FWD cars were it be wet or dry. But they actually not recommend by Audi GMBH or should I say Audi Sport. Every year I visit germany and one of the years I decided to visit GMBH as owning a Audi DTM I wanted to see were my pride and joy came from and were she started life out. Anyway to cut a short story long. They basically gave me a list of all the tyres brands compatible with the quattro system. And I questioned about the Goodyears AS2 as I am a huge fan there response was in the likes of the tyre compound is very soft with a soft sidewall as well as something regarding the asymmetric pattern.

Having said that some may argue thats BS etc well be as as it may. But for me I trust the people that built my car considering the Germans know there stuff.

Getting back to the point.

If you want the high price stuff

You should look at Mich Pilot Sport 2/3 (£ 135 - 141)

Mid Price range I would say anything in the likes of - Dunlop SportMaxx RT, Conti Sport Contact 5 (£115-120)

In the cheaper price range something in the likes of Vredestein Vorti or Vred Ultrac Sessanta both excellent tyres. I have tried both and just because they in the cheaper price range you will not be disappointed google it or search the forum These are rougly (£99)

Please bear in mind the prices above exclude postage which is £3 per tyre. Then an additional £10-£15 per tyre to be fitted.

So worst case £636 for a set, best case £468.

I will leave that with you.

If anyone on this post would like to read a bit more into the above information you welcome to read more about tyres and user experiences on this forum..... click this link http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b7-chassis/202632-tyres-one-avoid.html

 

[desertstorm]

Well I just had a look at the Audi site to quote me some tyres for my 3.0 TDI Quattro.
https://www.audi.co.uk/audi/owners-...ion.html?appAction=/tyrequotation/search.html

And it recommend Bridgestone Potenza RE050A, a softer tyre you will struggle to find they are well known for this.
A Pirelli P7 , These are asymetric tyres.

I changed the selection from 17 to 18 inch and hey presto it comes up with the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymetric 2, so Audi UK seem happy to recomend that tyre, however I won't be shopping with them as the prices are pretty steep.
I have Eagle F1 tyres on my car and are very impressed with them.

Karl.

 

[lynallbel]

Nothing fancy on wifes quattro and it goes around corners pretty ****** well!
As they are 16 inch they are nearly as cheap as chips.
I would say as its four wheel drive you dont need the best tyres like you would on a rwd merc/bmw etc

 

[GeoffDunk]

Hey Chris

Maybe I could be of some help. I will start off by saying that National tyres as a whole charge a lot for their tyres. Its as if they use there own mark up and live in there own world.

It is always suggested to replace 4 tyres as a whole on the Quattro system as a lot of information is not easily available as on our cars believe it or not the Quattro system takes the most strain from road surfaces as there is more resistance as there would be on say a gravel surface. And keeping all 4 tyres roughly the same tread just keeps the system in harmony.

As for the story you are being told. Personally I have never heard of this lifetime warranty on the diff system. So I would just take that with a pinch of salt and maybe just trying to persuade you to spend money.

Also as JDP suggested try and get a 14/18 point wheel alignment done either on the hunter or Beamn system. Some Audi centres do have this service thou are on the pricey side but you are roughly looking at around £70-£100. For the real deal.

Well the quattro system is a great system in its own right. But you not far off by putting a premium tyre on the vehicle but putting a lessor tyre on the vehicle is not going to upset it as much as you may think.

Just to quote from Desert Storms post about the Goodyears the AS2 are a very good tyre especially on FWD cars were it be wet or dry. But they actually not recommend by Audi GMBH or should I say Audi Sport. Every year I visit germany and one of the years I decided to visit GMBH as owning a Audi DTM I wanted to see were my pride and joy came from and were she started life out. Anyway to cut a short story long. They basically gave me a list of all the tyres brands compatible with the quattro system. And I questioned about the Goodyears AS2 as I am a huge fan there response was in the likes of the tyre compound is very soft with a soft sidewall as well as something regarding the asymmetric pattern.

Having said that some may argue thats BS etc well be as as it may. But for me I trust the people that built my car considering the Germans know there stuff.

Getting back to the point.

If you want the high price stuff

You should look at Mich Pilot Sport 2/3 (£ 135 - 141)

Mid Price range I would say anything in the likes of - Dunlop SportMaxx RT, Conti Sport Contact 5 (£115-120)

In the cheaper price range something in the likes of Vredestein Vorti or Vred Ultrac Sessanta both excellent tyres. I have tried both and just because they in the cheaper price range you will not be disappointed google it or search the forum These are rougly (£99)

Please bear in mind the prices above exclude postage which is £3 per tyre. Then an additional £10-£15 per tyre to be fitted.

So worst case £636 for a set, best case £468.

I will leave that with you.

If anyone on this post would like to read a bit more into the above information you welcome to read more about tyres and user experiences on this forum..... click this link http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b7-chassis/202632-tyres-one-avoid.html

I whole heartily agree with this detailed post. another point to make is that cheap tyres are false economy. I worry when I hear of people buying nice, quick cars and driving there families, friends and partners around only to find out they have skimped on the the 4 items that provide all of the contact to the road.

A great deal of clever advanced engineering goes into tyres. I am not saying the most expensive is the best, not at all, but cheap tyres are exactly that; the engineering in these items are usually sub standard and although they are "legal", are not as good as something that has had months (if not years) of developemnt on thier construction and compound and are designed to perform.


As for tyre stretch, don;t even get me started!!!!!!!!!

 

[lynallbel]

Best you dont look at the tyres of just about every privately owned average joe car in the uk then

 

[GeoffDunk]

Best you dont look at the tyres of just about every privately owned average joe car in the uk then

I disagree, the majority of people understand the high priority for a quality tyre for safety reasons not just performance.

 

[lynallbel]

Geoff down here in Kent we have several tyre places that specialise in foreign branded tyres and I can tell you they are always very very busy, drive past ATS and the rest and they are always quiet, seems most of their business is from reps cars, ie account work.
I knew one of the blokes who owned one and he told me they make 10 pounds per tyre profit and rely on quantity and they seemed to be doing very well, this particular guy was based next to a workshop I ran and I dont think he was ever quiet, which says it all to me really.
I sometimes think its bit of a scare thing like most things in the motor trade ie worry the customer and they will pay top dollar for something they dont need.

 

[jdp1962]

I suspect this is one of those topics where the collective view of the forum membership differs from the collective view of the public at large.

 

[A4_MaJiK]

I suppose you'll only come to realise once you've experienced it first hand. I used to skimp on tyres and get "budget" tyres on my previous cars, I decided to go for premium tyres based on reviews once I got my A4 and NEVER again will I go back to buying "budget" tyres in my life! The traction, braking distance and aquaplaning performance have dramatically changed. You can't put a price on safety, especially when in comes down to family being in the car or somebody elses child crossing onto the road.

Last year I bought a set of winter wheels with winter tyres for the first time and now I change over seasonally.

To add, my cousin bought a pair of Maxxis tyres on his Golf and the noise they made between 30-40mph was awful! Switched over to Goodyear Eagle F1s and they're so much quiter and refined it's unbelievable. Some garages actually suggested it was a wheel bearing issue!

Azeem

 

[GeoffDunk]

I suppose you'll only come to realise once you've experienced it first hand. I used to skimp on tyres and get "budget" tyres on my previous cars, I decided to go for premium tyres based on reviews once I got my A4 and NEVER again will I go back to buying "budget" tyres in my life! The traction, braking distance and aquaplaning performance have dramatically changed. You can't put a price on safety, especially when in comes down to family being in the car or somebody elses child crossing onto the road.

Last year I bought a set of winter wheels with winter tyres for the first time and now I change over seasonally.

To add, my cousin bought a pair of Maxxis tyres on his Golf and the noise they made between 30-40mph was awful! Switched over to Goodyear Eagle F1s and they're so much quiter and refined it's unbelievable. Some garages actually suggested it was a wheel bearing issue!

Azeem

My point exactly.

People will skimp on items all the time. I work in the Automotive design Industry and have done for over 20 years and i understand fully the engineering and the benefit to be had for buying the right tyres.

Sadly, people will learn the hard way.

As an an additional note, I never let my tyres go as far as the legal minimum, performance drops off way before that.

 

[jdp1962]

As an an additional note, I never let my tyres go as far as the legal minimum, performance drops off way before that.

Me too. Once they're down to 4mm, they're gone.

 

[GeoffDunk]

Me too. Once they're down to 4mm, they're gone.

I may let em go to 3mm, all depends on timing but no further.

legal is 1.6mm which I couldn't run around on and feel safe.

 

[lynallbel]

Ive always found when your tyres get low thats exactly when they choose to attract a nail or screw.
The point I was trying to make above with 4 wheel drive you dont need the best tyres to get a fair whack at what the car can do, wifes last car merc in wet weather oh dear, in the end we ran all season or winter tyres all year around, it would spin up on a damp man hole cover, which was ****** annoying if pulling out into busy traffic.
I dont think I actually know anybody who personally fits big name branded tyres, and just about everyone I know is a motor/truck mech!

 

[lynallbel]

I may let em go to 3mm, all depends on timing but no further.

legal is 1.6mm which I couldn't run around on and feel safe.

You wont believe what we see every day on trucks that come into us for their 6 week inspections!

 

[woollyjoe]

BTW- non OEM wheels like Rotor copies will also strain your cars mechanics. They are not hollow or the same composition and the extra weight does affect things. You can also find the wheels themselves weigh differently. Nothing to do with balancing. But reputable aftermarket or OEM.

 

[Quattrodude]

Thanks for all your great advice and views guys, from tyres to the last post on the Rotor copies.
I think I will look at getting 4 Uniroyal Rainsport 3 from Camskill and stick with my 18" OEM alloys, although I do think 19"s would look really good. They have great reviews and looks like they wear well also. Up here in Manchester it rains alot and so those tyres on a Quattro are bound to be a great combination.