Time for a build thread....big turbo

[warren_S5]

My lord Alex, they are going to take some getting used to after the other tyres! Have you consciously had to adjust your driving style!

 

[Ron burgundy]

1000 posts! Now 1001 with mine [my laugh]

Edit : 1002 er Hm

 

[S3Alex]

My lord Alex, they are going to take some getting used to after the other tyres! Have you consciously had to adjust your driving style!

Those Supersports are actually pretty good all round tyres.

Pretty close to the R888s,but obviously there is a lot more understeer earlier on.

Next offering is one nicely ****** set of wastegate springs.




They're still in good nick,but they're able to control 2 bar and not one psi more,so the new set have gone in.

 

[S3Alex]

And another teaser....

 

[warren_S5]

OOOOH, the manifold is on!

Have you driven with it yet? If so any first impressions?

 

[S3Alex]

OOOOH, the manifold is on!

Have you driven with it yet? If so any first impressions?

It's kind of difficult to be certain that any one thing has made a big difference,as quite a few things have been altered,ranging from wastegate,manifold and boost settings,including gain.

Also,the inlet valves and ports have been cleaned out,and a LOT of coal removed from them.

It feels smoother,and maybe less of an obvious step onto the boost,so that may be down to the much bigger plenum of the new manifold.

Remember this......?



Thats a piece of VAG's finest plastic,and to be fair,it never split or cracked,even under twice it's intended boost pressures.

 

[S3Alex]

And then compare it to this......

 

[warren_S5]

Holy s**t, that VAG manifold is clever but goddamn is it ugly. Destroys the look under the engine bay. The new one looks a huge improvement even if the gains were marginal (which they won't be).

Leftfield question, have you ever tried running a secondary air feed to the ITG through the inner wing to front fog light?

 

[S3Alex]

It is,as Arnie would say,"one ugly mother******"

Strong enough,but not easy on the eye,and clearly a bit short on volume inside,which is one area where the Boulekos wins hands down.

I think though that asking much more than 2 bar from the stock item is looking for trouble, and there's no way the welds are going to give way on the new one.

Things are getting busy under the bonnet now,with so many wires,pipes and fittings....

 

[S3Alex]

Leftfield question, have you ever tried running a secondary air feed to the ITG through the inner wing to front fog light?

Hi Warren,

I meant to say earlier that I haven't done that.

One reason was some of our lovely roads get pretty waterlogged at times,and I didn't fancy feeding it some water,however unlikely that is.

The other reason is it doesn't really need it with WMI and a huge intercooler.

Next thing to do over the next few days is to have a play with the boost settings and see how the car feels on each.

It's got 1.3 bar for bad days,then 1.8 bar which felt pretty good on the way home,then 1.95bar and 2.2bar,which on a brief test peaks out at nearly 2.5bar so that needs a bit of looking at.

Only other thing to do is to see if it still runs really rough from cold,which I expect it will,as that hasn't got anything much to do with the manifold.

 

[S3Alex]

OOOOH, the manifold is on!

Have you driven with it yet? If so any first impressions?

OK Warren.....first proper impressions.

It actually does run better from cold.
With the stock manifold it wouldn't pull more than 2700rpm from cold,and would cough under anything but the lightest load.

Now it idles a bit better,and runs better from cold.

Once warm,it seems smoother,and there is definitely less peakiness,in that it has less of a step as the boost comes in,but it's fair to say that may be down to the boost controller programming as well.

I've had a run in on the 1.9bar setting this morning,on nice damp roads,with the R888s,and it feels good.....proper traction(those tyres are amazing on damp roads for what they are),and good power delivery.

I'd asked AMDTuning to increase the compression damping a bit at the front,and that does seem to have corrected a bit of bounce the car was suffering from,and I'm sure that's improved traction a bit as well.

 

[<tuffty/>]

The additional fuelling... I assume this is setup as a returnless system? can't see an FPR or return line?... how is the extra fuel provided as the TFSI's have an FPR built into the fuel filter IIRC... has the feed been tapped off that pre-HPFP?

<tuffty/>

 

[S3Alex]

The additional fuelling... I assume this is setup as a returnless system? can't see an FPR or return line?... how is the extra fuel provided as the TFSI's have an FPR built into the fuel filter IIRC... has the feed been tapped off that pre-HPFP?

<tuffty/>

Hi there,

The additional rail isn't hooked up yet,but is fitted so we don't have 4 leaking holes(!) in the manifold!

What will be done is to take an LP fuel feed from the LP fuel line,and use that to supply the additional rail.
That will be controlled externally via a KMS injector controller(I'd originally thought of the 034 controller,but a good friend running a similar setup is using the KMS system),which is mappable for throttle opening,MAP,inlet temps and other parameters,so is quite a comprehensive setup.

I tend to get things done in increments,so the first was to get the manifold fitted and the car running with it first,before trying for any more,plus time constraints,as the extra fuel lines etc may require a swirl pot,and that may mean redesiging the existing fuel system.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Sensible approach... swirl pot might end up being the way forward... would potentially make the fuel system less complicated and you would be in control of it all... its something I have considered for mine tbh

<tuffty/>

 

[S3Alex]

Sensible approach... swirl pot might end up being the way forward... would potentially make the fuel system less complicated and you would be in control of it all... its something I have considered for mine tbh

<tuffty/>

I had a proper swirl pot and fuel system on my old Escort....

Bag tank,Bosch lift pump and swirl pot followed by another Bosch pump to supply the rail......noisy as hell but very good.

I'll leave all of this to AMD,but having seen what my friend with the Golf R has on his,this seems like a very good solution,and ensures no possibility of starvation,not that it's going to be running the full flow for long.

The next step is going to be looking at the various fuelling and ECU options again,and deciding on the best,and if it means the stock pump needs to come out,that would be the time to get the rear seats out as well.

The car is definitely improved.....runs smoother,and upping the damping has cut down front end lift over bumps,so it's all good until the next round.

 

[S3Alex]

Few more points....

The car is better from cold,but as expected,the cold starting issue hasnt gone away.

It DOES run,and copes better than before,but still misfires under load when it's cold,but what's changed is that before,it was rubbish from cold till above 70C,and now it's OK once it's above 50C,so it's still there,but not as bad.

I've been running it on the 1.9bar setting,and it definitely feels at least as fast as 2bar before,if not quicker,and with less lag/off boost laziness than before,so it gets up and goes better.

I've a feeling that the 2.1bar setting hasn't been changed from before,so that may need some tweaking,as it doesn't feel as smooth as the other settings in terms of delivery.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Out of interest... what grade plugs are you using?

<tuffty/>

 

[S3Alex]

Out of interest... what grade plugs are you using?

<tuffty/>

All I can really say is totally stock plugs.....whatever the current stock issue for S3's is in the car right now,so if I remember it's boring old NGK Platinums.

We've never used anything fancy,or gone for colder plugs etc,and apart from changing them more regularly than Audi would recommend,it's been absolutely fine,even on a trackday.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Reason I ask is I used to runs 8's and had cold start issues... changed to 7's and was good... I believe 7's are std on 8P S3's anyway

<tuffty/>

 

[S3Alex]

Reason I ask is I used to runs 8's and had cold start issues... changed to 7's and was good... I believe 7's are std on 8P S3's anyway

<tuffty/>

Yes...they are 7s...that much I do remember.

I had a set of really cold race plugs on the Sierra Cosworth years ago,and it ran OK until one time in France when we'd been pootling down a serious hill,at low rpm,and then it fouled 2 of the things and ran like a tractor until I managed to clear it.

Never again.

This starts fine...almost always first time,and runs well throughout the rpm range,and cold running has only been an issue since deleting the runner flaps.

 

[S3Alex]

I have some close up dirty pictures.....!







And some more absolute filth.....with added gasket remnants for extra crunch.

 

[warren_S5]

It makes you wonder how the hell the engine runs when you see that. I can't believe how bad it can get in so few years (given it's not the first time your engines been apart for attention).

VAG must have determined it was acceptable wear & tear to have signed the design off.

 

[S3Alex]

It makes you wonder how the hell the engine runs when you see that. I can't believe how bad it can get in so few years (given it's not the first time your engines been apart for attention).

VAG must have determined it was acceptable wear & tear to have signed the design off.

It is pretty grubby,isn't it,and don't forget,that's WITH a catch can.

I guess that VAG were well aware of this,as a part of the engine design,but as most owners never notice a slow loss of performance,it's probably a small issue for VAG,in view of it meeting more stringent emissions standards etc.

 

[S3_Mat]

In how many thousand miles is that build up alex?

 

[warren_S5]

Makes you wonder if catch can actually helps much in these engines given the design (no cold start valve to wash fuel past the valves), and the re circulation of gases etc. Every little helps I guess.

Wonder if it's all TFSi engines or whether high performance turbo cars are any worse than others (that said, based on V8 engines probably not). Great pics and a real wake up call to high mileage owners of unloved cars.

 

[S3Alex]

In how many thousand miles is that build up alex?

Roughly 30 000 miles since the bottom end rebuild.

 

[S3Alex]

Makes you wonder if catch can actually helps much in these engines given the design (no cold start valve to wash fuel past the valves), and the re circulation of gases etc. Every little helps I guess.

Wonder if it's all TFSi engines or whether high performance turbo cars are any worse than others (that said, based on V8 engines probably not). Great pics and a real wake up call to high mileage owners of unloved cars.

If anything, the V8 RS4 is supposed to be worse than the 2.0TFSi.

I'm sure the can makes a but if difference but it may take a proper delete to get rid of the problem but that would have to include the breather emptying into the turbo inlet.

 

[S3_Mat]

Roughly 30 000 miles since the bottom end rebuild.

So hypothetically a car of 60k could well have buildup twice as bad! That's not good..

 

[S3Alex]

So hypothetically a car of 60k could well have buildup twice as bad! That's not good..

I'm not sure to be honest.

I know some of the RS4s have been really bad.

I would think it probably reaches a plateau where it doesn't get much worse as the airflow velocity goes up but who knows.....

 

[crazylegscrane]

are you getting it all cleaned off again alex?

I'm guessing it's not cheap to clean up and that the head has to come off to do it?

 

[S3Alex]

are you getting it all cleaned off again alex?

I'm guessing it's not cheap to clean up and that the head has to come off to do it?

It's all cleaned up,and the manifold was fitted a couple of weeks ago.

The engine feels a lot stronger,even with slightly lower boost(1.9bar instead of 2bar),so all the crap must have been holding things back quite a bit.

Here's a couple for comparison.


Before.....




After.....





Has to be at least 10% more area if not more,and when you consider that flow is proportional to the 4th power of the radius,it must make a difference.

 

[crazylegscrane]

That looks very good Alex, do AMD do it themselves or send it away?

 

[S3Alex]

That looks very good Alex, do AMD do it themselves or send it away?

That I don't know to be fair,but the result was perfect,and the car was in for a fair while.

The last time,the head was off and everything stripped back and examined along with the bottom end of the engine,so I would expect the same this time.

I'm pretty sure it was as bad if not worse this time around,but with 3 yrs in between.

 

[S3Alex]

And the remainder of AMD's handiwork.....









Looks like new,and looks to my untrained eye to be pretty well designed,and smooth,with not a whole lot left that could be removed,so that may be why there are few companies offering any porting etc on the S3 engine.

 

[warren_S5]

Wow, there is like a bronze piece on top of the valve that was AWOL previously.

Amazing job, but it does make you wonder whether the pitted surface contributes to accelerated re-caking of the ports. I've seen a few Mk2 GTi and MK3 VR6 Golf engines being skimmed and ported / polished, and whilst it involved quite a bit of expense I do wonder if it would make it harder for the s**t to stick.

That said, should give you another 50k+ happy miles (fingers crossed)

 

[S3Alex]

Wow, there is like a bronze piece on top of the valve that was AWOL previously.

Amazing job, but it does make you wonder whether the pitted surface contributes to accelerated re-caking of the ports. I've seen a few Mk2 GTi and MK3 VR6 Golf engines being skimmed and ported / polished, and whilst it involved quite a bit of expense I do wonder if it would make it harder for the s**t to stick.

That said, should give you another 50k+ happy miles (fingers crossed)

Hi Warren,

The piccies are well magnified,and the surface I don't think is that bad,but the problem is all the incoming crap which is mostly oil based,and would stick to anything in time.

I may have a solution in the form of a cam cover from IE or Eurojet,which doesn't have that nasty breather system.

 

[warren_S5]

Seems like a useful alternative, is it big money? That breather system is the devils work.

 

[S3Alex]

Seems like a useful alternative, is it big money? That breather system is the devils work.

This is what I had in mind.....





From Integrated Engineering in the States.

Eurojet make a similar one,but theirs still has the breather that exits into the turbo inlet.....this one only has a straightforward big breather exiting to a tank.

 

[Sevv]

This is what I had in mind.....





From Integrated Engineering in the States.

Eurojet make a similar one,but theirs still has the breather that exits into the turbo inlet.....this one only has a straightforward big breather exiting to a tank.

wouldnt the pressure int he head change... ive seen one fail at the damn workshop doing my build.

 

[S3Alex]

wouldnt the pressure int he head change... ive seen one fail at the damn workshop doing my build.

The cam cover pressure should be pretty much atmospheric,using this sort of cover,and my crazy Romanian friend has one of these on his 700bhp Golf,so I think it should be OK.