Time for a build thread....big turbo

[NHN]

LMAO I bet, cant imagine you test driving a 1.1 lmao.

I have pics of the cam, jee's its rounded of badly, pic side by side of old/new is fairly definitive.

 

[NHN]

Ouchhhhh

 

[S3Alex]

Gnarly.

Hope I never see anything like that.

Car booked in and ready for some work.

 

[NHN]

Harsh looking huh, fuel pump nipple was sloped lol.

 

[S3Alex]

Harsh looking huh, fuel pump nipple was sloped lol.

Nice lazy cam lobes. Lol.

No wonder it didn't go.

Lots after the manifold to come.
Got the wastegate springs to fit as well then we can get 2.2 bar to hold properly.

Right now it won't do that as the wastegate is already opening.

Then a bit later we can get on with the head.

 

[KevZA]

Just to recap and smile a little.

I've done a few bits and pieces to the car so far,but finally thought it was time to get a thread of some sort going.So far its had.... Revo Stage2+ Forge CAIForge DVForge catch can kWv3 suspensionEibach ARBsHaldex race controllerMilltek exhaustVolkswagen Racing brake kit Most of the work so far has been done at AMD Essex

Its been a long expensive trip and you still leading the pack in my opinion.

Been giving me the best reading material man can get.

Thanks for keeping us posted on your expensive progress its like watching Top Gear in text format

 

[S3Alex]

Just to recap and smile a little.

Its been a long expensive trip and you still leading the pack in my opinion.

Been giving me the best reading material man can get.

Thanks for keeping us posted on your expensive progress its like watching Top Gear in text format

It's probably best for me not to look back!

If I do I might start adding it all up and counting the cost...... Eeek.

It's actually been great fun and I can only thank a lot of people here and on VAGOC for their help and ideas.

The real leader isn't on this forum but I'm honoured to count him as a good friend.

I'm still around 150 bhp short on pump fuel !!

However,for what I need which is everyday drive ability and reliability this car has been a real blast.

If we can push a bit more and lose some of the weight it'll be even better.

 

[NHN]

Nice lazy cam lobes. Lol.

No wonder it didn't go.

Lots after the manifold to come.
Got the wastegate springs to fit as well then we can get 2.2 bar to hold properly.

Right now it won't do that as the wastegate is already opening.

Then a bit later we can get on with the head.

Lazy, lmao, that's an understatement, the follower was unreal.

TBH mate I could of picked up your parts in Italy & brought over quicker, when with my family lmao.

 

[S3Alex]

Lazy, lmao, that's an understatement, the follower was unreal.

TBH mate I could of picked up your parts in Italy & brought over quicker, when with my family lmao.

Next time I need some shiny Greek metalwork I know who's doing the courier job!

No shiny parts or warm weather where I am right now!

 

[S3Alex]

Nothing ever turns out easy.

Seems the "fits an 08 S3"manifold,requires a bit of surgery.

AMD on the job......

 

[S3Alex]

One problem solved......and another issue uncovered.....

 

[S3_Mat]

That's a fair bit of carbon build up! Have you ever had it cleaned up before?

 

[S3Alex]

That's a fair bit of carbon build up! Have you ever had it cleaned up before?

Hi Mat,

Thats the stuff that the catch can doesn't catch!


When the engine was in bits a few yrs back for the bottom end and turbo build,the head was off,and the valve stems were cleaned up at that time.

Now,3 yrs on,the crap is back,and we all know that catch cans are only part of the answer.

 

[<tuffty/>]

All the TFSI 'catch cans' I have ever seen leave the cam cover breather that comes off the back of the cover direct to the turbo still connected... its not really the PCV delete we all know and love in the 20v world...

That said, not having fuel sprayed at the valves won't help either but hopefully the new manifold so go someway to address that?

<tuffty/>

 

[S3_Mat]

Surprised there's so much build up even with a catch can. Surely the water meth helps as well?

 

[S3Alex]

Surprised there's so much build up even with a catch can. Surely the water meth helps as well?

I think the problem is that even though the catch can gets some of the muck,the other breathers feeding into the system don't all go via the can.

As to the WMI,it's injected pre-throttle body,so it's pretty much vapour by then,and clearly doesn't do much for the valves.

 

[S3Alex]

All the TFSI 'catch cans' I have ever seen leave the cam cover breather that comes off the back of the cover direct to the turbo still connected... its not really the PCV delete we all know and love in the 20v world...

That said, not having fuel sprayed at the valves won't help either but hopefully the new manifold so go someway to address that?

<tuffty/>

Thats right,unfortunately.



The manifold will only have an effect when we get the injectors hooked up,and even then,only when they're triggered,which would be somewhere beyond 550bhp before the RS4 injectors are maxed out.

I think this is just a real problem with the TFSi engines,and I know the RS4 guys have also got problems there.

Here's a couple more dirty pics....

 

[S3Alex]

So....that's another little job to get around,and I'll have more on that front shortly.

To be honest,I was surprised by just how much crap has built up there,although I know the catch can isn't a cure-all for this.

The long term answer may turn out to be a new cam cover such as the IE/Eurojet,and just do away with the PCV system and all of it's problems.

 

[warren_S5]

Wow; I can't believe it can get that bad in 3 years Alex.

Is it the FSi system that causes the issue (e.g. the fuel is directly sprayed into the cylinder, so you get no fuel washing past the valves).

Given the miles of testing VAG must have done putting the FSi system in to production you'd guess that they had to consider the build up to be within acceptable parameters and not affecting performance too much.

I saw something called Terraclean advertised on Discovery (between Wheeler Dealers). I take it something like this couldn't be used as annual preventative maintenance? I've never liked the idea of sea foam wash.

Best to get it done again I guess. If you paid extra to have everything fine polished/ported would it cause less carbon to stick / cake on?

 

[S3Alex]

Wow; I can't believe it can get that bad in 3 years Alex.

Is it the FSi system that causes the issue (e.g. the fuel is directly sprayed into the cylinder, so you get no fuel washing past the valves).

Given the miles of testing VAG must have done putting the FSi system in to production you'd guess that they had to consider the build up to be within acceptable parameters and not affecting performance too much.

I saw something called Terraclean advertised on Discovery (between Wheeler Dealers). I take it something like this couldn't be used as annual preventative maintenance? I've never liked the idea of sea foam wash.

Best to get it done again I guess. If you paid extra to have everything fine polished/ported would it cause less carbon to stick / cake on?

Hi Warren,

It's a dirty dog isn't it!

It's a product not only of the TFSi direct injection system,but also funneling all of the breathers into the inlet to reduce emisssions etc.

VAG clearly know of this,but what's out of sight is effectively out of mind for most who simply won't have the head or manifolds off the car,or maybe won't notice slow deterioration in performance.

Quite a few RS4s have had similar problems when they've been stripped down,and these are no different,but the solution is straightforward enough.
Porting and polishing won't make a huge difference,and once this gunge has started to build up,it simply continues to do so.

 

[warren_S5]

Balls. Makes you wonder how bad it could get if left indefinitely.

I do enjoy reading your thread, on forums these days there are too many armchair pundits keyboard wrestling about which is best (hatchback / sportback, petrol / diesel, pink / brown etc...) and not enough people ripping the bonnet off and thrashing their wallet about for some proper modifications. I love a good build thread, makes it all worthwhile!

 

[<tuffty/>]

Wow; I can't believe it can get that bad in 3 years Alex.

Is it the FSi system that causes the issue (e.g. the fuel is directly sprayed into the cylinder, so you get no fuel washing past the valves).

Given the miles of testing VAG must have done putting the FSi system in to production you'd guess that they had to consider the build up to be within acceptable parameters and not affecting performance too much.

I saw something called Terraclean advertised on Discovery (between Wheeler Dealers). I take it something like this couldn't be used as annual preventative maintenance? I've never liked the idea of sea foam wash.

Best to get it done again I guess. If you paid extra to have everything fine polished/ported would it cause less carbon to stick / cake on?

Bill had a terraclean demo... its next to useless on TFSI's for cleaning the backs of the valves as its used to replace the fuel supply so goes straight to the injectors...

<tuffty/>

 

[warren_S5]

That's useful to know> I'd seen a Jag have it done (diesel) and it only cost £70 so I wondered how useful it would actually be. Verdict: F-A!

 

[S3Alex]

Bill had a terraclean demo... its next to useless on TFSI's for cleaning the backs of the valves as its used to replace the fuel supply so goes straight to the injectors...

<tuffty/>

Agreed.

I can't see how it would work either plus the stuff is pretty crusty and baked on.

 

[Sevv]

So....that's another little job to get around,and I'll have more on that front shortly.

To be honest,I was surprised by just how much crap has built up there,although I know the catch can isn't a cure-all for this.

The long term answer may turn out to be a new cam cover such as the IE/Eurojet,and just do away with the PCV system and all of it's problems.

you literally have a better pic than i do but yeah the TFSI are prone to this carbon build up and needs to be cleaned yearly very time consuming job and it can cause bits to break off and bend your valves so gotta watch out for that.. i keep telling people but no one listens and now we both showed them just how bad it is.

 

[S3Alex]

you literally have a better pic than i do but yeah the TFSI are prone to this carbon build up and needs to be cleaned yearly very time consuming job and it can cause bits to break off and bend your valves so gotta watch out for that.. i keep telling people but no one listens and now we both showed them just how bad it is.

Put another way I've seen it before and even I was surprised at how much there was.

But as you say,sometimes people can't be told.

 

[S3Alex]

Just remembered this old picture.....

This was from the old K04 on mine originally,and shows the state of the turbo intake,covered with oil from the breather that opens into the intake above the turbo.

 

[buz]

MINI's are prone to this carbon build up and was soon highlighted as a common problem so BMW now offer a cleaning/blasting service using walnut shells. I don't know the finer details/procedure of it but it's meant to work a treat, maybe independant garages offer a similar service for different makes??

 

[S3_Mat]

I too have read about walnut shell blasting in the last few days. Seems you need a fair amount of it though! 9 - 10 litres maybe to do all 4 cyl. Before and after results are impressive mind you.

 

[S3Alex]

MINI's are prone to this carbon build up and was soon highlighted as a common problem so BMW now offer a cleaning/blasting service using walnut shells. I don't know the finer details/procedure of it but it's meant to work a treat, maybe independant garages offer a similar service for different makes??

I too have read about walnut shell blasting in the last few days. Seems you need a fair amount of it though! 9 - 10 litres maybe to do all 4 cyl. Before and after results are impressive mind you.

I should have a few updates fairly soon,both on the manifold,and the carbon build-up.

It's clearly a problem that should be common to all DI engines,and given the gains after cleaning,one that's worthwhile attending to.
With a bit of luck and time.we should be able not only to get before and after pics,but maybe also a dyno run after the clean-up,as I already have the results of a run at 2 bar prior to all of this.

The only problem with that run was the wastegate,which was barely holding at 2 bar,and limiting performance.

 

[pluves1]

Interesting. Couldn't believe how coked up my S3 was after I'd experienced some power loss. Dealer stripped and cleaned cylinder head after taking advise from Audi. Wish I'd have taken before and after pics. Didn't realise the problem was so widespread.

 

[S3Alex]

Interesting. Couldn't believe how coked up my S3 was after I'd experienced some power loss. Dealer stripped and cleaned cylinder head after taking advise from Audi. Wish I'd have taken before and after pics. Didn't realise the problem was so widespread.

It's certainly known,but I think that most people either don't notice a slow decline in performance,or in some cases,may not be aware of the cause.

I know of RS4s with the same issue,and a number of other S3s,but frankly,we'd all be in the same boat,as we all have similar engine technology.

 

[Sevv]

blame the injectors/FSI.. simply as it spray directly into the cylinder, unlike the 1.8T AMK etc..they are more reliable sad truth then our engines but obviously at 1800cc less power.. basically the 8L s3's are more reliable in the long term then our TFSI's unless you spend a fortune yearly to clean them up.. im cleaning mine tomorrow with a tooth brush and 5 bottles of degreaser lol.

 

[S3Alex]

It's just the march of technology.


On one side there's the coming issue but on the other,much better economy and more power.

Getting 250bhp/litre used to be the preserve of race engines alone.

 

[S3Alex]

It lives again......

Most of the work is done now,and there will be some before and after pics once it's all up and running.

Boost controller programming and wastegate opening need to be checked out,as there's no point in having a wastegate that never opens.
Manifold is fitted,after a bit of machining to get the fuel rail brackets to fit......I'm pretty sure that every job I've given AMD has turned out not to be a simple "fit and forget",as they've so often been billed.

The ATP turbo kit wasn't simple or easy,the LP auxiliary fuel pump upgrade skinned a few fingers,the wider rims were a pain,along with the adjustable topmounts,so it was silly to expect that the manifold would simply pitch up and bolt right on.

Anyhow,in a few days it should be ready for a bit of set-up time.

 

[Sevv]

It lives again......

Most of the work is done now,and there will be some before and after pics once it's all up and running.

Boost controller programming and wastegate opening need to be checked out,as there's no point in having a wastegate that never opens.
Manifold is fitted,after a bit of machining to get the fuel rail brackets to fit......I'm pretty sure that every job I've given AMD has turned out not to be a simple "fit and forget",as they've so often been billed.

The ATP turbo kit wasn't simple or easy,the LP auxiliary fuel pump upgrade skinned a few fingers,the wider rims were a pain,along with the adjustable topmounts,so it was silly to expect that the manifold would simply pitch up and bolt right on.

Anyhow,in a few days it should be ready for a bit of set-up time.

its good to see that they never fail you and are quick; i wish i got AMD to do the work and ship parts back to me here given i knew the nightmare i am dealing with here with engine/box sepecialists

 

[S3Alex]

its good to see that they never fail you and are quick; i wish i got AMD to do the work and ship parts back to me here given i knew the nightmare i am dealing with here with engine/box sepecialists

Quite honestly if I didn't have them around,I wouldn't have the car I've got.

I've always been fortunate in using tuners who run race cars or teams and I do think that makes a huge difference to the expertise as professionalism that you get.

I know the trouble you're having and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[snowy]

Feels as if under those conditions the TC and diff fight each other for directing torque,and the end result is collosal understeer

With the TC off,the overall feel is much better and the diff just gets on with it's job.

+1

Experienced similar - not as extreme maybe

much more predictable too [when tc turned off]

Wish I had/or knew someone with the skills to reprogram the TC/ABS to work cooperatively with LSDs'

 

[S3Alex]

+1

Experienced similar - not as extreme maybe

much more predictable too [when tc turned off]

Wish I had/or knew someone with the skills to reprogram the TC/ABS to work cooperatively with LSDs'

I guess it comes down to the opposing way that Audi's TC works compared to a torque sensing diff.

Switching it off works fine for me but obviously under braking it kicks back in but as you aren't loading the diff it doesn't seem to cause problems.

I expect it becomes more apparent with more torque but at least the traction is much better.

 

[S3Alex]

At last,back on the road.

Far too dirty for any decent pictures,thanks to my driving style and the Sahara sand,but a few to show the developments.

Off with these now that the weather isn't too bad......

Considering what they've endured in terms of BHP and camber,they're actually not bad at all.





And back on with these.....



That turned out to be a very good idea,as somewhere along the way,someone had done a repair on the Supersports during one of the times they'd been on and off the car.

A crafty piece of work on the tread near to the shoulder,so that's been binned and the other 3 have come home.