Jacking points

[Battlekrapz]

Must admit i misunderstood the question too .

Well, if helpful and as you already probably understood, i've jacked my car up multiple times with a trolley jack on the seams and never had any issue and i'm about to do it again this saturday to stick my summer setup back on.

 

[cuke2u]

Thanks for clarification AJB....

 

[AJB]

Must admit i misunderstood the question too .

Well, if helpful and as you already probably understood, i've jacked my car up multiple times with a trolley jack on the seams and never had any issue and i'm about to do it again this saturday to stick my summer setup back on.

How's the underseal holding up on your jacking points? Although I haven't ever jacked mine yet, the underseal was split on the jacking point (I guess from the PDI). I'm not sure if that's going to be an issue or not...

 

[cemerson]

Not quite sure why people would mistrust the manual, or not think that the people who made the car would know where it's safe to jack up the car?

 

[AJB]

Not quite sure why people would mistrust the manual, or not think that the people who made the car would know where it's safe to jack up the car?

For me, I'd obviously be perfectly happy to jack anything how the manual says with the factory jack. With my 2002 Octavia, the factory jack didn't press on the seam, so when I used my trolley jack I didn't jack the seam but instead used a completely different point on the underside.

On the 8V the factory jack seems to press on the seam, and there's no other place that's obvious for a trolley jack, so I'm thinking I'll trolley jack it on the seam when it comes to it. But I'm not 100% happy with that, as I know older designs could fold the seam if you did that, even at the proper jacking point, when using a trolley jack rather than the factory jack.

 

[cemerson]

A jacking point is a jacking point - doesn't make much of a difference if you use the jack that comes with the car or not. It's not like they use those jacks at Audi when they service your car...

 

[Battlekrapz]

How's the underseal holding up on your jacking points? Although I haven't ever jacked mine yet, the underseal was split on the jacking point (I guess from the PDI). I'm not sure if that's going to be an issue or not...

No sign of wearing or damage whatsoever.

 

[AJB]

A jacking point is a jacking point - doesn't make much of a difference if you use the jack that comes with the car or not. It's not like they use those jacks at Audi when they service your car...

Yes, but on older designs the jack that came with the car pushed on a completely different bit of metal than a trolley jack used at the same place. Hence various posts on various forums about cutting slots in ice hockey pucks to use as a jacking pad.

Some of the main dealer lifts I've seen have a huge pad which covers the jacking point plus quite a bit either side of it, spreading the load. Also they lift all 4 corners at once, perfectly vertically.

A trolley jack on one corner will apply some sideways load, and isn't a huge area. Hence people in the past getting their jacking points bent by trolley jacks, especially at tyre places.

I'm hoping the 8V has stronger seams so will be safe, but there's still a slight concern at the back of my mind.

 

[AJB]

No sign of wearing or damage whatsoever.

Interesting. I'll have to keep an eye on mine... I wonder why it's got damaged. I'd be interested if anyone else has split underseal on their jacking points.

 

[cuke2u]

I used to place my jacks in the centre of the subframe that goes between the two lower wishbone bush mounts. I've not really looked under my car to see if that is available though, perhaps somebody who has had their car on a car lift could have seen if it is possible...

 

[veeeight]

Interesting. I'll have to keep an eye on mine... I wonder why it's got damaged. I'd be interested if anyone else has split underseal on their jacking points.

Yes.
On my 8P S3, a trolley jack was used on the seam exactly where the jacking point is. The seam bent, and split the underseal. Both sides.

The seam has now been straightened, and underseal repaired by myself.

I now have an ice hockey puck (hard vulcanised rubber) with a slot cut in it I carry in the car, and lend to the tyre fitting places when they jack my car up, if they don't already have something similar/suitable.

I will now be extremely wary of using a trolley jack without any additional protection, on a jacking point designed for a scissor jack.


edit: Incidently when the 8P is lifted with a 4 point car lift at the dealership - this is lifted at a completely different point - not at the seams. You need Jack Pads - and even with these Jack Pads, they are really supposed to be used only with a 4 point lift.

ECS Volkswagen & Audi Jack Pad Adapter > Maintenance > S3 8P/Mk2 > AUDI A3/S3 > VW Specialists > PSI Tuning - VW Specialists

 

[Battlekrapz]

As said previously, i also use a rubber hockey puck with a slit cut in it, i believe that's what protects my seams.

 

[AJB]

Yes.
On my 8P S3, a trolley jack was used on the seam exactly where the jacking point is. The seam bent, and split the underseal. Both sides.

On my 8V, the metal is fine and nothing's bent. It's just the underseal that is damaged. Your experience is exactly what I've been trying to explain could happen with the older designs though.

 

[AJB]

As said previously, i also use a rubber hockey puck with a slit cut in it, i believe that's what protects my seams.

Trouble is I'm not sure that works as well with the 8V. On older cars, the factory jack pressed on a reinforced area just inboard of the seam, and that's the bit the hockey puck presses on too (the point of the slot in it is so that it can clear the vertical seam completely).

On the 8V the factory jack seems to lift on the seam, so the reinforced area inboard of the seam isn't there in the same way. Also, most of the rest on the underside is covered in plastic, so the beams I used to use to jack my Octavia either aren't there or are covered.

 

[veeeight]

If your underseal is damaged, then your 12 year anti corrosion warranty won't be valid........

Best get that repaired asap.

 

[AJB]

If your underseal is damaged, then your 12 year anti corrosion warranty won't be valid........

Best get that repaired asap.

I'm puzzled as to why it's happened, and whether Audi are expecting the underseal to get damaged on the jacking point itself. Mine's never been jacked since I collected it, so the PDI would have been the only time it was jacked. From marks in the protective wax, they used a big pad to jack it, which covered the whole jacking point plus overlapped beyond it, so it doesn't look damaged by a trolley jack or anything. It's just strange that the underseal had split apart where the weight of the car has gone through it on the jacking point.

 

[kenny_boon]

Thanks for your replies AJB, im glad I wasnt the only one showing concern. Appreciate you replying and explaining. after having several VAG cars it is just completely alien to use the seam for the last 10 years all the others were designed to avoid it

and as for the comments above, i do read and have read the manual, it was a genuine question as it is a very different design to previous thats all. better safe than sorry

 

[PembsA3]

I've just spent the day sealing the wheels and coating the underside and suspension of my day old 8v with anti corrosion fluid. I had to jack the car to get the wheels off obviously... I didn't want to use the car jack so I used my trolley Jack (with a rubber pad) and I used the jacking points fitted to the chassis members designed for four post lift arms... At the rear it is a rectangular solid plastic/rubber block forward and inboard of the sill j/point and at the front it is a round plastic/rubber protrusion just behind the wheel arch and rear wishbone mount. I used these with no problem and no sign of any deformation and definitely no damage to the underseal. Mine is an S line (with the sill extensions...) so there was no way I could my Jack on the sill jacking points.

 

[AJB]

I used the jacking points fitted to the chassis members designed for four post lift arms... At the rear it is a rectangular solid plastic/rubber block forward and inboard of the sill j/point and at the front it is a round plastic/rubber protrusion just behind the wheel arch and rear wishbone mount. I used these with no problem and no sign of any deformation and definitely no damage to the underseal. Mine is an S line (with the sill extensions...) so there was no way I could my Jack on the sill jacking points.

Interesting. I'm pretty sure I don't have those blocks-I spent a while looking and couldn't see any obvious points to jack from.

I wonder if they only fit those to cars with sill extensions where a 2 or 4 post lift would be able to use the sill jacking points...

Maybe they could be retro fitted to non-SLine models...

 

[mjcourtney]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure I don't have those blocks-I spent a while looking and couldn't see any obvious points to jack from.

I wonder if they only fit those to cars with sill extensions where a 2 or 4 post lift would be able to use the sill jacking points...

Maybe they could be retro fitted to non-SLine models...

I'm almost certain I don't have those either. Just seems to be a sea of black plastic under the chassis with no real solid places to jack it other than the thicker sill points.

 

[squiretolley]

Does anyone know the best place to put axle stands? I'm hoping to paint my rusty wheel hubs over the weekend.

Cheers

 

[Battlekrapz]

Noone knows ive asked the same and so did kenny_boon...

 

[PembsA3]

I don't know if it would help but I could try and take pics of where these blocks are mounted tomorrow. I'm sure the chassis parts that they are bolted to will be the same as non S line cars so with the appropriate block/pad you could use a trolley jack on them...

 

[AJB]

I don't know if it would help but I could try and take pics of where these blocks are mounted tomorrow. I'm sure the chassis parts that they are bolted to will be the same as non S line cars so with the appropriate block/pad you could use a trolley jack on them...

Yes please! That'd be really interesting to see if you get a chance. Not least just to know which areas are strong enough to jack, but also hopefully to be able to fit the blocks to mine.

 

[PembsA3]

I'll do my best!! Paintwork sealing tomorrow. Must say I'm glad I did the corrosion protection on day 2 of ownership and not left it any longer - the hub centres are quite rusty already and it was only build 3 weeks ago! Wheels also transformed with some sealant...

 

[cuke2u]

Strange because mine are like new still

 

[PembsA3]

Only around the hub nut - must've had some water sat in them at the dockside cos it probably didn't have the but covers on...

 

[veeeight]

OEM Jack Pads.

They fit in the 4 holes in the monocoque where the car is cradled around the factory during production

The dealer inserts these when they have to lift the car using a 4 point lift.

Really only designed to be used for a 4 point lift (to distribute the load) rather than a trolley jack. But better than bending the seam.

edit: Available from VW or Audi Parts Dept, only around £3 each.

 

[PembsA3]

Similar to the ones on the front of mine but the ones at the rear are rectangular blocks and fixed to the chassis rails.

 

[veeeight]

Sounds like they have brought out a new rectangular jack pad for the MQB for the rear lift points.

This pic from a Golf Mk7 without the jack pad inserted.

 

[PembsA3]

Yep - the left hand bung (which is in the slight depression) is where my rectangular jack pad is.

 

[Battlekrapz]

So is that a point where we can stick our axle jacks?

 

[AJB]

Thanks for the picture. My 8V (Sport trim) looks exactly like that Mk7 Golf picture at the back, so hopefully the block could be attached easily. At the front everything seems to be covered in plastic though... I can't really see where the round block would go. Maybe there's a different covering panel with a hole it in? How does the S-Line front jacking pad fit in with the black plastic panels on the underside?

 

[veeeight]

At the front everything seems to be covered in plastic though... I can't really see where the round block would go.

Is there a removable plastic panel? This is how the 8P was.

 

[PembsA3]

I couldn't get far enough underneath to get a close look because it was only on the trolley jack and I don't trust them, but my next door neighbour has a proper ramp lift and I'm gonna get it lifted up next week so I can finish coating the underside in ACF50 - I'll have a better look then and if I remember I'll get some pics.

 

[kenny_boon]

Seems damage to underseal is common on new vag cars with seam lift. Have heard several people saying underseal splits

 

[glospete]

In earlier posts there was discussion about jacking points for the A3/S3 8V model. I didn’t really see a conclusion as to the best place to put a trolley jack in order, for example, to change the wheels. Veeeight got me in the right direction as he pointed out that the 8V needs to be raised ON the seams and not either side which was apparently the jacking point for the 8P. The floorpan either side of the seam is very weak and is definitely not designed to support the car.

I purchased a nice trolley jack from Machine Mart but felt I needed something between that and the jacking point. I looked on eBay to see if the main seller of jack pad adapters had one suitable for the A3/S3 8V and the upshot was that he didn’t. The one he was selling was for the 8P and supported the car either side. However he is a very (dare I say!) “adaptable” person and I measured what was required and he made one on spec and sent it to me without asking for payment in advance! I reckoned that the slot in the rubber puck needed to be 8mm wide and 5mm deep – just deep enough to fix the position on the puck. He made one in a couple of days and I tried it at the weekend and it is perfect.

Of course you could (as veeeight has pointed out) just use a puck without a slot but with the slot you know you are centred exactly in the right position on the puck. The 5mm depth is such that there is plenty of rubber underneath to take the weight of the car so no danger of it splitting. Anyway in case anyone is interested I have taken some photos and also given the eBay link to the product. I should emphasise that I have no connection with the seller and am offering this information as a fellow Forum user who was concerned and confused in equal measure! In searching for this I also came across another seller who has a jack pad adapter for my TT so I am now a very happy boy!

AND I've done a FAQ re Jacking Points!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261663483870?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

 

[veeeight]

^ You're a good man, it's good to see the FAQ section being expanded !

Thanks for uploading the photos, it's a great help to everyone!

 

[veeeight]

I'll just add a little more info here that I've discovered with my own S3 8V.


Undoubtedly, if you are lifting the car with a single point jack, then the manufacturer provided jack seams are the correct places to use the jack, scissor or trolley.




Onto the lifting points that are meant to be used with a 4-point lift:
With my particular car, it arrived with the rear rectangular jack pad already installed
It also arrived with the front jack pads already installed, and the plastic cover pressed into the centre of the jack pad (as in Post#68)

I am unclear if this is how the car left the factory, or if the 4 jack pads were installed at PDI.
(On the production line, the car cradle fits directly into the bodywork at those points, no jack pads)

The rear rectangular jack pads are pressed into the rear chassis rail, and if you grab it, you can "wobble" it about using some force.

The front jack pads (in my case) are hidden above a removable plastic panel, the plastic panel presses into the centre of the jack pad. The plastic panel looks like it is supposed to stay, even when used with a 4 point lift, as it seems to have strenghtening ribs moulded into it, and has a circular locating hole, for the peg of the 4 point lift.

Given that it is plastic, and given that you're not supposed to use these points for a single point lift, it's fair to say that I'll only be using these points when used in conjunction with a 4 point lift, to spread the load. I don't think I would like to trust that front plastic lift point on a single jack.

 

[leof]

Still no ideas as to where to put axle stands?