Upgrade to Porsche bigger brakes

[willh92]

Hi all,

I've seen a few cars on here have upgraded front brakes to Porsche (Brembo) 6 pots.

My question is, are all Porsche brakes - from any model Porsche that is - a direct fit to our shape S3's? Applying to front and rears?

Thanks

Will

 

[kwistof]

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...l-a3-s3-owners-other-golf4-platform-cars.html

Section in there about Porsche callipers

 

[Gary_808]

I've had a read through that, as I'm interested in doing the conversion,

There's a few adapters for sale on eBay,
Though what calipers they are for is confusing,

Also what fits under the standard 17's? What size spacers are needed too clear te caliper?

 

[daz-20vt]

Theres loads of info in the sticky but which calipers are known to work well?

 

[Gary_808]

And there's adapters for 3 different sets of calipers on eBay last time I looked,

Seem way cheaper than a lcr set up too.

 

[daz-20vt]

Yeh. In theory.it will always work out more than you realise. Still gonna cost a fair bit. Lcr works well and is very easy.

 

[Gary_808]

Lcr set ups I've seen go for around 300plus,
Then id always buy new disks and pads any ways,

Regarding the Porsche calipers, the guides on here say use the rears, then I've read else where not to use the rears, use the fronts,

I also want to know the spacer situation to clear either the rears or Front porker calipers.

 

[Prawn]

No rear caliper will ever work well or properly, so forget that totally. I've had a set, and they were ****, so I sold them on very quickly.

it really depends how far you want to go and how much you want to spend.

No Porsche setup will be cheaper than LCR brembos, I know this for fact, having had several seats of each.

The 'entry level' decent porsche setup would be to use boxster front calipers, on 312mm discs. Carriers are available for these for around £100. These apparently work pretty well, although I'd personally be dubious about their ultimate track capability due to keeping the small 312mm discs which just can't take the heat of stopping a heavy car repeatedly for extended periods. For most people they're probably fine though. these will fit under a standard 17'' wheel no trouble. Westy can advise on cost, but I'd imagine this setup would set you back around £500.

The next step up, and in my opinion the best, is to use 996 911 front calipers from a 996 C2 or C4, but NOT a C4S or Turbo. These calipers also came on the Boxster S and are perfect. These will fit under a standard 17'' s3 wheel with room to spare.

These will run on a 330x28mm disc available in 2 piece form from places like Badger 5, or in single piece form for an Alfa brera, but will require the PCD redrilling to 5x100 to use them. I've had these, and they were amazing. One of the best brake setups I've ever had. Cost wise you're looking at around £800 for a full set with refurbed calipers and new single piece discs redrilled.

Beyond that, you're looking at 996 Turbo front calipers on R32 334mm discs, these are pretty monster and beyond most peoples needs, but incredibly nice if the budget / bling factor dictate it. Typically these will require 18's or larger, and almost certainly spacers too.

the final 'step up' in porsche brakes is Cayenne 6 pots, although these are typically overkill and more show than go in my opinion, although I'm sure they still work pretty well, some people question pedal feel with these.

 

[kwistof]

Seem way cheaper than a lcr set up too.

Actually had a little lol at that...if only porsche parts were as cheap as seat

Some good info there prawn btw, LCR for me next year I think unless my mate wants to give me his 996 911 turbo brake set up! Lol

Or I win the euro millions and buy these bad boys -

420mm Ceramic Brake Upgrade - Genuine Audi - Super price !

(Largest production brake set up on a road car iirc)

 

[slowcoach3]

LCR set up ftw! Bang for buck the simplest set up to get hold of, fit and get replacements for. I love mine and wouldn't be with out them Incidentally I know of a set up sale in a couple of weeks

 

[Sam_]

Ignore the hype about crap pedal feel on the cayenne 6 pots. Properly bled the 18Z's are as good as, if not better than, OEM feel.

 

[daz-20vt]

Ignore the hype about crap pedal feel on the cayenne 6 pots. Properly bled the 18Z's are as good as, if not better than, OEM feel.

I can relate to this. I have the r32 golf set up and ive not read great things about them. And my initial feelings were that the pedal travel was too much. They stopped well but you had to really hit them hard. I had them looked at by someone a little more speacialist. Bled them with a decent pressure bleeder and now theres instant bite and if hit hard they really bite hard.not like a 4 pot but a massive improvement over stock.

 

[Prawn]

Ignore the hype about crap pedal feel on the cayenne 6 pots. Properly bled the 18Z's are as good as, if not better than, OEM feel.

the 18Z's are by far the best of the bunch of porsche 6 pots definitely.

Hydraulically speaking, the stock 54mm single pot caliper has a surface area of 2290mm², compared to one side of the 18Z's at 2750mm², so not allowing for the reduction in caliper flex, the pedal will unquestionably travel 20% further than stock.

The Forge ones I had gave 29% more travel over stock, which I found a little too much.

i guess with the added stiffness of a decent porsche caliper, the 20% additional pedal travel may not be too much of an issue. it would require slight adjustment to the pedals to make heel N toe techniques a bit easier though.

 

[daz-20vt]

Six pots must help the pads compress more equal to mustnt they? Meaning less heat/hot spots and more pressure. Win win. Interestingly i read the 18'zs were the ones to avoid?? To many friend of a friend stories and people not using correct methods with these cars when installing and bleeding.lots of old threads with people struggling to get a good pedal even on standard set ups.id go Lcr brembos for road use In most cases.

 

[Prawn]

17Z's would give you 33.6% more pedal travel than stock, and must feel utterly disgusting to use!

Bleeding techniques aside, the figures above are based on pistons sizes relative to each other, to the 20% and 33% additional pedal travels are the absolute best case scenario possible with those calipers. the reality can only be equal or worse, but not better, it's not physically possible.

As far as even pressure goes etc etc, then it's perhaps true, but only due a larger pad, with a 4 pot there is still a piston pressing at each end of the pad (opposites sides of the two pistons), and arguably over a wider area of the pad as 4 pots will have bigger pistons, so that case could be argued either way really.

What is true though, is that caliper design and correct piston size hydraulically matter far more than simply the number of pistons.

i've had so many different brake setups on several cars, some good, many bad, so it's something I feel pretty strongly about.

I know exactly how and what to do to make the ultimate brake setup, but currently I'm still avoiding spending the money required at all costs! So I'll struggle on trying to make something adequate for less money!

 

[Sam_]

I was referring to feel as opposed to travel itself. Having personally experienced fitment back to back, the 6 pots had much better modulation while not feeling longer travel wise (even though they must be). Perhaps my stock setup was past its prime but it certainly doesn't feel horrible now. I drive bare foot most of the time and can easily stop the car with just a big toe haha.

People tend to be very quick to put the 6 pot setup down and say it's overkill etc without any experience of it. I personally think braking is not really an area where going overkill is a bad thing. I could have probably got an LCR setup for a little less than what I paid for the 6 pot setup (they're rare in Aus) but I ended up with a better setup imo, with true 2 piece floating discs. For what it's worth, they fit under my 17s.

Ultimate setup would probably be a set of Alcons and floating j hook discs, I'm sure If I had one of the later mk5/6 chassis, I'd be running the overkill carbon setup

 

[Sam_]

Interestingly i read the 18'zs were the ones to avoid??

Brembo 6 pot 17Z - pistons 34/36/38 = 3060mm2
Brembo 6 pot 18Z - pistons 30/34/38 = 2750mm2
Brembo 6 pot 19Z - pistons 32/36/38 = 2956mm2

 

[daz-20vt]

to be honest i think brakes and suspension are by far the most important part of a set up. Just so much info online and i understand very little of it. Its mostly what fits rather than what works or works well. I bought my r32 set up on an impulse buy. Im happy now but it wont last long when i do a few track days.

 

[daz-20vt]

Brembo 6 pot 17Z - pistons 34/36/38 = 3060mm2
Brembo 6 pot 18Z - pistons 30/34/38 = 2750mm2
Brembo 6 pot 19Z - pistons 32/36/38 = 2956mm2

This means nothing to me lol. If you have them and recommend them then thats better to know than piston sizes to me.

 

[Prawn]

are R32 discs truly 2 piece floating Sam?

I've often heard it mentioned, but not sure how true it is as they're all steel and don't seem to have a seperate centre bell

 

[JimS3]

are R32 discs truly 2 piece floating Sam?

I've often heard it mentioned, but not sure how true it is as they're all steel and don't seem to have a seperate centre bell

Last standard R32 I worked on had single piece discs, but floating 2 pot calipers. Maybe that's where the 'floating' reference comes in.

 

[daz-20vt]

Oem r32 discs are all steel. But there are holes between the centre that mounts to the hub and the friction part of the disc.its one piece but they call it floating. Nothing like a 2 piece floating disc with aluminium bells.

 

[Sam_]

are R32 discs truly 2 piece floating Sam?

I've often heard it mentioned, but not sure how true it is as they're all steel and don't seem to have a seperate centre bell

The OEM R32 discs are an OEM take on floating so they're cast in one piece but the actual friction surface is mounted by "splines" for want of a better word, to the centre bell. They're pretty ****** heavy though.

I run true 2 piece ECS replacements. Quite a decent weight saving.

 

[Gary_808]

Just to bump this, any more Info on the calipers (996 c2-c4) and adapters needed for the Alfa disks? Most adapters seem to be for bigger disks?

Cheers

 

[future]

The c2/c4/boxster s calipers can be run with either 312mm original discs and adapters or the updated ones states by prawn. 312mm is more than enough for most people, however the larger ones dissipate heat better, so for track work they are better no questions.
I however have the 17zr/l calipers on 334mm discs and they are superb!! There is a little more pedal travel than standard but much better pedal feel. And in back to back test with standard brakes the pedal travel was not noticeable

Tom