Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

If I'm right can I cut one of the n75 wires on the plug that goes to the n75, wire I switch in with long cable and put the switch hidden in the front somewhere haha
 
s3gazz said:
If I'm right can I cut one of the n75 wires on the plug that goes to the n75, wire I switch in with long cable and put the switch hidden in the front somewhere haha
Click to expand...

You are 100% right :)
 
N75 wired up today, boosts nicely.

Seems to make 20psi at 3k without surge. Lean in the midrange though so pulled out. Oddly enough, still nice and safe rich top end, just lean in the midrange.

More news tomorrow hopefully :)

feeling good so far!
 
Prawn said:
N75 wired up today, boosts nicely.

Seems to make 20psi at 3k without surge. Lean in the midrange though so pulled out. Oddly enough, still nice and safe rich top end, just lean in the midrange.

More news tomorrow hopefully :)

feeling good so far!
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How lean?

Id imagine it could be flowing more mid range and similar at the top still. It's only a poor nB ecu so not really that good at adapting to a required fueling
 
Held my foot in for a few seconds from 3-3.4k, 13.8-13.9. Too lean for me to continue with it, that's loading it up in 5th to test though.

Pulling from 4k onwards in 3rd on boost it drops to 12's and 11's top end. feels fast.
 
Don't think it's been near a dyno today has it Bill?

 
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Had a bit of a more relaxed weekend than ususal!

Spent much of yesterday with Tori, but found time briefly in the afternoon to pop over to Thruxton to see a friend racing:







And knocked up a quick heatshield to sit between the hot exhaust and the turbo intake:



I also wired up the N75 quickly, and tested that it worked - confirmed. TFSI N75 works great.

We had a little morning trip out today also.

Some of you may recognise this place:



And this friendly looking gentleman:





Just a quick check to see that it's fuelling safe and I'm OK to continue driving it before it's mapped. This is still on the old hybrid map, and due to Bills excellent dyno software we were able to make overlays and compare new and old setups.

So, the results.....

Red line is the old ko4 hybrid, blue line is the new TFSI unit:



Spool is a tiny bit later on the dyno, but on the road it makes 15psi before 3k, aside from that, on the same actuator pressure they're incredibly similar!

Midrange torque is ever so slightly up on the new setup, whether that's because it's slighly leaner or not I don't know.

Happy that it was running fairly well and things were as expected, we turned the N75 on!



^^^The old full boost map here was from before the last map on the new engine, so previous max power had been 307bhp at Bills. it's a great comparison of spool up though, again roughly 4-500rpm later.

And the plots from todays results:





348bhp and 283lbft, or in comparable terms elsewhere, 328lbft (given Bills calc of 16% lower reading on his)

Considering it's made this from just 18psi at the top end, and it made peak power AT the rev limiter, I think we're doing pretty well here on the old map!

EGT peak on the dyno on full boost was just 734 degrees, so promisingly low, and timing pull was absolutely zero across the board after a few tiny cf's on spool up.

All in all, a ****** good result! Roll on mapping on September 5th!

Massive thanks to Bill and Tuffty as always for fitting me into their incredibly busy schedule! you guys are awesome :racer:

Jardo: please post your vids now :laugh:
 
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Looks Very promising dude!
Looking forward to seeing it being mapped!
 
Sorry for my poor memory but is this a standard tfsi turbo or has dan worked some magic on it?
 
Basically standard Dani. A 1 bar actuator and a TINY bit of port matching at the flange, but that's it :)
 
16Klappe said:
Don't think it's been near a dyno today has it Bill?

Click to expand...


I have never seen a shot like that before. Great, just shows what a Proper tyre does under proper use. Most impressed
 
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Excellent results so far! I got 278 lb/ft at bills which is quite alot looking at your calculations! But looks great prawny, you've done such a great job so far!
 
bigal 1 said:
I have never seen a shot like that before. Great, just shows what a Proper tyre does under proper use. Most impressed
Click to expand...

There is a bit of carpet glue involved there too BBD, to stop it wheel spinning on boost, but it was VERY obvious how sticky these are on the rollers, you could really hear it sticking to the rollers which you don't tend to hear at all with road tyres.

This also lead to us picking up a LOT of stones when leaving B5, which took most of the journey to falls out of the various places they'd been lodged!

Just uploaded the graphs again in a better size so you can actually read them:

Actuator comparison:



Boost comparison (Pre final map on the hybrid)



And the plots just from yesterday:





Thanks again to Bill and Paul for doing this for me :) it's highlighted that at the very top end, I'm either running out of injector or fuel pump (starts to get leaner above 6k on full boost)

NIki reckons he's taken the 440 greens beyond this many times before, and I'm on a stock LCR pump, so I'm almost certain it's the pump. I've got a walbro 255 pump to drop in this week, and will be taking a 4 bar FPR up to R-tech with me so we can add another 15% fuel if required.
 
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audi upgrades
That looks awesome, no cf's and still climbing at 7000 rpm:yes:, dare we speculate at a possible 400 bhp.
 
wild willy said:
That looks awesome, no cf's and still climbing at 7000 rpm:yes:, dare we speculate at a possible 400 bhp.
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I'm not sure about 400, but it's certainly very promising!"

Top end fuelling was pretty rich, but as it starts to lean out (fuel pump related I think) above 6k you can see the power start to rise further.

It peaks at 7392rpm, just 8rpm before the hard cut limiter, so we can safely say that's the soft cut stopping it going any further and it's peaking AT the limiter. Boost at that point is just under 18psi and fuelling is still at a safe 11.5:1, so mapped to hold 20-21 or more at a similar fuelling level, with maybe a few degrees more ignition, then who knows!

This is what our friendly Badgerman said on bookface:

The results are true and solid..
Every run it gained power, not lost (freakish car prawny lol).
Yes it ran wmi, but zero timing pull without it indicates its not being used.. and the results would be the same, maybe a little less consistent with repeated runs thats all.
It has more left in it.. and my personal estimate is its got 380-390bhp of power left in it, riding the egt's when niki gets his hands on it again.
As for economics of the conversion for the general public, the costs needs to be determined and understood first before hype leads to dissapointment.
Its not going to be just the cost of the turbo, but all the other parts to join the thing to the motor.

As for Prawnys results and my independant testing of it yesterday it shows good promise, and indicates the K04-64 is in a higher league than the k04-2x versions flow wise.

No shock there personally.. We know what tfsi's manage after all for some years now.
Click to expand...

A good and totally independant view point that certainly suggests big potential :)
 
Prawn said:
I'm not sure about 400, but it's certainly very promising!"

Top end fuelling was pretty rich, but as it starts to lean out (fuel pump related I think) above 6k you can see the power start to rise further.

It peaks at 7392rpm, just 8rpm before the hard cut limiter, so we can safely say that's the soft cut stopping it going any further and it's peaking AT the limiter. Boost at that point is just under 18psi and fuelling is still at a safe 11.5:1, so mapped to hold 20-21 or more at a similar fuelling level, with maybe a few degrees more ignition, then who knows!

This is what our friendly Badgerman said on bookface:



A good and totally independant view point that certainly suggests big potential :)
Click to expand...

I'm a little surprised I have to say, especially how easily it's making the power. I thought we'd get near the old hybrid power but honestly thought as it stood yesterday it would make nearer 320-330 on the old map with a bit more once mapped properly, but it seems like its leaps and bounds above my expectations, and to be near the 2ltr tfsi engine power once tuned is great news..

I've said for a little while the tfsi was pretty badly runner to head match ported and I did put quite a bit of effort opening out the runners on this setup so maybe saying a pure stock tfsi k04 will do this maybe or maybe not un realistic along with nicks engine and wmi.. However, everything turbo setup wise is easily repeatable , the more can get out of the stock version the more I hope the hybrid will take..
 
beachbuggy said:
I'm a little surprised I have to say, especially how easily it's making the power. I thought we'd get near the old hybrid power but honestly thought as it stood yesterday it would make nearer 320-330 on the old map with a bit more once mapped properly, but it seems like its leaps and bounds above my expectations, and to be near the 2ltr tfsi engine power once tuned is great news..

I've said for a little while the tfsi was pretty badly runner to head match ported and I did put quite a bit of effort opening out the runners on this setup so maybe saying a pure stock tfsi k04 will do this maybe or maybe not un realistic along with nicks engine and wmi.. However, everything turbo setup wise is easily repeatable , the more can get out of the stock version the more I hope the hybrid will take..
Click to expand...


seeing a few pages back that a 4wd setup is possible DP dependant, this looks very interesting indeed as its making me wonder if i should carry on with my k04 hybrid or swap over to the TFSI setup you guys have shown here.

any ideas on cost for the setup once testing has been done? pm's would probably be best

thanks
 
boomsly said:
any ideas on cost for the setup once testing has been done? pm's would probably be best
thanks
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To me this remains the $64,000 question

Dan will be able to confirm his costings/prices in due course.
Performance wise is certainly has merit
Ecconomics TBC
 
badger5 said:
To me this remains the $64,000 question

Dan will be able to confirm his costings/prices in due course.
Performance wise is certainly has merit
Ecconomics TBC
Click to expand...


Dont worry bill, sure someone will copy my design and sell it on eBay!
 
how does that compare to yours dan? both cost and design wise?
I understand the frustration but people see a market and go for it, like creation motorsport with 3inch tips.
A possible new source for your kit perhaps?
 
badger5 said:
someone possibly already has Dan... seen the link on fb earlier.

1.8T Two TFSI Manifold Adaptor S3, Golf, Seat, Audi, update your KO4 manifold. | eBay

no idea how similar this may be to what you have created tho
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I was aware, I was being a bit ironic in my statement;-) its nearly a blatant copy of mine except p1ss all thought gone into this one, counter sunk bolts , non angle studs for Tfsi fitment, which are crucial. I have an idea of who it is.. Funny how it was released the day after testing !

No Matter though as with mine at least you'll know its been tested fully, actually fits and been r&d! Plus your get a complete kit and not just a lump of metal.
 
beachbuggy said:
I was aware, I was being a bit ironic in my statement;-) its nearly a blatant copy of mine except p1ss all thought gone into this one, counter sunk bolts , non angle studs for Tfsi fitment, which are crucial. I have an idea of who it is.. Funny how it was released the day after testing !

No Matter though as with mine at least you'll know its been tested fully, actually fits and been r&d! Plus your get a complete kit and not just a lump of metal.
Click to expand...

BBT for the win

Shame some folks feel the need to knock off stuff they see others put effort in to.

Shame on them... especially if on here.. Kinda sours things somewhat..
 
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Prawn said:
Mystery seller even read your comments and amended the auction 15 minutes ago!
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Meh... still misleading as the bit 'update your KO4 manifold' infers you can use your existing K04... tbh a more correct description would be TFSI turbo to 1.8t adaptor... seeing as the hotside is integral to the TFSI manifold and therefore the whole K04 turbo... just misleading...

<tuffty/>
 
audi upgrades
<tuffty/> said:
Meh... still misleading as the bit 'update your KO4 manifold' infers you can use your existing K04... tbh a more correct description would be TFSI turbo to 1.8t adaptor... seeing as the hotside is integral to the TFSI manifold and therefore the whole K04 turbo... just misleading...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

lets see how long it takes to change this time
 
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