Time for a build thread....big turbo

Unitronic said:
I found these boxes are very soft when you up the torque on them. They need some cooling as the oil cant handle the heat and most of the time the bearings in the casings are heated to such a degree that it expands & cracks the casing. I'm thinking of upgrading my bearings as well but in 2 minds about the strait cut or bearing upgrade? Mishimoto has a very nice gearbox cooler i'm thinking of installing.

Do you have a price on bearing upgrades & who, I believe it will set me back around £500?
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Mine had been squealing a little since new,and coming from the Escort,I really didnt think anything of it,until around 35 000 miles when it was getting quite noisy.

It was stripped down,and the synchros on 1st-3rd were worn,along with the selector forks,and bearings,and a bit of brass filings in the box as well.
The casing itself was fine,and no issues there.

That lot obviously came down to wear etc,but the transfer box was also shagged,and the problem there is that there are no aftermarket parts,and Audi only sell complete new boxes.....at £1200 + VAT.

The gearbox rebuild was £800 and AMDTuning would be able to give you a name if you wanted.

Using straight cut gears will make your ears bleed,believe me....my Escort had a Quaife straight cut short ratio box,and it was like being inside a milling machine.
 
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I saw the Mishimoto cooler,and did sort of wonder about it,but haven't had any issues with the box aside from wear,but I have to say the transfer case does bother me considering the state of mine when it was opened up.

The gearbox seems to be able to handle excess torque pretty well,once the bearings have been beefed up,and short of a dog box,that's about all you can do anyway.
I'm not sure how one of those would do in everyday or town driving,so I will stick with the stock syncro box until it gives problems,which it's so far been pretty clear of.

I'm really keen to see what the Quaife diff does for this car,as those were part of the key to the Escort's amazing traction on changing surfaces,and the S3 does squirm with 500bhp and 480lbs going through the transmission.
It would be good to get rid of the feeling of fighting it a bit under load,and I'm also getting the rear brakes beefed up a little with new discs and Mintex 1155s on those as well.
 
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Good news for me......

All parts on order,some arriving shortly,and the turbo being built up as of yesterday.

For anyone thinking of going down this route,I cannot recommend Owen Developments highly enough,and in particular Scott Hawkins,for his advice,help,and general time taken over what's simply a single customer order,(as opposed to a block order like they must see all the time),has been a real eye-opener,and makes you wonder why more companies can't be like this.

This company REALLY knows what customer service means.

(Exhaust is getting really loud and popping all the time now!....seriously needs fixing.)
 
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Turbo part built now.

0.6A/r compressor (this is fixed) and settled on a 0.82A/r turbine after some more advice from Owen Devs.

That should give a good balance between spool and top end power without compromising either too much.
 
Look what turned up today......

7B97A3C4-A0FC-4432-B787-84D79E4844FD-21537-00000E0AD33EF085_zpsd35c13aa.jpg



Nice shiny new diff ....


F3680256-489A-4A69-9502-0A5EB2B875B0-21537-00000E0AE0EC1C08_zps74b1c0ca.jpg
 
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Loads more on the way.

Turbo arriving in a couple of days then the hard work begins(but not for me!)

Steve at AMD can look forwards to more skinned fingers digging the old turbo out.
 
A little birdy told me HN03 GAS was parked at AMD at the weekend........ and I can't wait to hear how the new setup goes.

Just purely out of interest, what are you doing with the old unit....... :beerchug:
 
JamesS4cab said:
A little birdy told me HN03 GAS was parked at AMD at the weekend........ and I can't wait to hear how the new setup goes.

Just purely out of interest, what are you doing with the old unit....... :beerchug:
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It's in bits as of today.

Won't be going anywhere fast for a while until Steve has left a few fingers in the exhaust!
 
Hmmmm. Not many lines to read between there Alex......
 
JamesS4cab said:
Hmmmm. Not many lines to read between there Alex......
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It will either go really well,or turn into a real job like the last big project when the supply end went south.

I think we've worked it all out pretty well but the proof comes when the engine is turned over. Lol
 
Dean_T said:
Well at least things are happening - I will keep fingers crossed for you!
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Much appreciated!

Lots happening and everything here is crossed as well.
 
Unitronic said:
Hows the new turbo coming on Alex?
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Should be arriving today.

Just needed a different outlet from the one that was fitted as I went for a 0.82 A/r cover.

Once it gets there I think my friend Steve will have a job on his hands!
 
Unitronic said:
Have a question for you! Seeing you have done the ATP manifold did you have it supported with some torque lever?
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It's just bolted straight on.

There were no extra supports and after 20 000 miles it seems OK.

If its suffered at all we should find out when the turbo comes off.

Fingers crossed.
 
Unitronic said:
Hi Alex! Any news concerning your Manifold yet?
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Nothing yet .... The car is being taken to bits this week.

There was a bit of a delay down to me getting a date mixed up over when the turbo hot side was being built up.

So,things should be happening soon.
 
Unitronic said:
Great stuff m8 can't wait to see it back on the road! Have you made some vids?
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Thanks!

No vids.

I know I need to do this sometime but never seem to get around to it.

I want to get it running with the 3076 and then see if we can't do something with the timing and WMI next.
 
Xmas again.

The new turbo has arrived courtesy of Scott Hawkins at Owen Developments.

Pictures as soon as Ben has some ready for me.
 
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Just opened the box for a look this morning but no pics as my camera was at home.

First impression was how big the thing is especially on the compressor side....absolutely huge by comparison.

May have some pics by tomorrow hopefully!
 
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Awesome stuff Alex! I can't wait to see you'er face first drive! Must have one of those GoPro facing you so we can see the face! LOL
 
Unitronic said:
Awesome stuff Alex! I can't wait to see you'er face first drive! Must have one of those GoPro facing you so we can see the face! LOL
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Thanks!

I think I'll be crossing my fingers.

When Ben sends some piccies you'll be surprised....the intake is huge....4" ported shroud.
 
15Degrees said:
What diff is that? Why did you choose it as opposed to a gripper plate diff?
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It's a Quaife ATB diff.

I've used Quaife diffs before,and the way they can find traction is amazing.

Up until recently,there wasn't one of these for the S3,but they did do one for FWD cars,so I waited and hoped,and finally they got around to making one.
As I understand it,there are benefits and drawbacks with either,in that the Quaife does require the wheels to be in contact with the ground(i.e.if you manage to lift a wheel under cornering,it doesn't cope),and on the other side,if you choose to much preload on the gripper,you have issues in tight cornering around town etc.

Keeping the front wheels in contact isn't an issue with the suspension setup I'm using,and I like the feel and delivery of an ATB diff.

I'll feed back on it when it's all been put back together,but to honest,anything would be better than the open diff,as the car is squirming around right now.
 
S3Alex said:
It's a Quaife ATB diff.

I've used Quaife diffs before,and the way they can find traction is amazing.

Up until recently,there wasn't one of these for the S3,but they did do one for FWD cars,so I waited and hoped,and finally they got around to making one.
As I understand it,there are benefits and drawbacks with either,in that the Quaife does require the wheels to be in contact with the ground(i.e.if you manage to lift a wheel under cornering,it doesn't cope),and on the other side,if you choose to much preload on the gripper,you have issues in tight cornering around town etc.

Keeping the front wheels in contact isn't an issue with the suspension setup I'm using,and I like the feel and delivery of an ATB diff.

I'll feed back on it when it's all been put back together,but to honest,anything would be better than the open diff,as the car is squirming around right now.
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Yes I agree. Its a difficult choice for me as both have upsides and downsides. Would you say the Quaiffe is the best gear diff then? There is another one isnt there? The gripper gives me different pre load and ramps to play with for racing which I like and it was awesome on my old Clio 182.

Who do you use for gearbox rebuilds etc?
 
There's the Peloquin and also Wavetrac diffs but I have no experience of either whereas I do rate Quaife not only from personal experience but a lot of rallycrossers use them.

If anyone is going to break a diff it would be those guys.

The general opinion seems to be for circuit racing that a ramp diff would work best whereas for road use or variable surfaces the ATB type diff scores best.

I'd need to ask AMD who did the gearbox rebuild as it was a specialist in Kent who did the work.
Uprated bearings and new selector forks and synchros.
 
S3Alex said:
There's the Peloquin and also Wavetrac diffs but I have no experience of either whereas I do rate Quaife not only from personal experience but a lot of rallycrossers use them.

If anyone is going to break a diff it would be those guys.

The general opinion seems to be for circuit racing that a ramp diff would work best whereas for road use or variable surfaces the ATB type diff scores best.

I'd need to ask AMD who did the gearbox rebuild as it was a specialist in Kent who did the work.
Uprated bearings and new selector forks and synchros.
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Ok thanks. Stripping my engine tonight. I def have a crank bearing gone. Might as well get the box rebuilt while I am at it ready for Silverstone in 6 weeks time.
 
15Degrees said:
Ok thanks. Stripping my engine tonight. I def have a crank bearing gone. Might as well get the box rebuilt while I am at it ready for Silverstone in 6 weeks time.
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Bad news on the bearing.

What happened?

I ll see if I can find the box builder we used if that would be any use to you?
 
S3Alex said:
Bad news on the bearing.

What happened?

I ll see if I can find the box builder we used if that would be any use to you?
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Driver mist :) I was enjoying myself so much in the race that I chose to sort of hope/ignore my high water alarm and just watched the temp go over 120 and then still carried on until it lost power and started rattling. I wont do that again as of course its cost me 20 hours work stripping the engine and about £300 in parts I guess but it's hard as you just don't want to pull off circuit!
 
15Degrees said:
Driver mist :) I was enjoying myself so much in the race that I chose to sort of hope/ignore my high water alarm and just watched the temp go over 120 and then still carried on until it lost power and started rattling. I wont do that again as of course its cost me 20 hours work stripping the engine and about £300 in parts I guess but it's hard as you just don't want to pull off circuit!
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Ahh!

I can understand but its easy to get distracted by having fun.

Good luck fixing it.
 
S3Alex said:
Ahh!

I can understand but its easy to get distracted by having fun.

Good luck fixing it.
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Racing is like a drug and trust me when I say you don't want to stop for anything once you get going LOL. BUT I need to be more disciplined in that area and will work on that as we spent ages setting up alarms etc on my dash and then I promptly ignored them ROFL which is false economy. It's all a learning curve in driver development.

Don't get me wrong I shall enjoy stripping the engine again and I am sending the turbo etc off for ceramic coating as it overheated due to excessive heat in the engine bay that the water system just could not cope with so we do need to develop the car in that area.

Details in my thread as I don't want to hijack yours :)
 
15Degrees said:
Racing is like a drug and trust me when I say you don't want to stop for anything once you get going LOL. BUT I need to be more disciplined in that area and will work on that as we spent ages setting up alarms etc on my dash and then I promptly ignored them ROFL which is false economy. It's all a learning curve in driver development.

Don't get me wrong I shall enjoy stripping the engine again and I am sending the turbo etc off for ceramic coating as it overheated due to excessive heat in the engine bay that the water system just could not cope with so we do need to develop the car in that area.

Details in my thread as I don't want to hijack yours :)
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It's always good to post useful info on each other's threads,and sometimes you pick up something really useful,as I have so many times here,so don't worry about it.

Who did you choose for the coating?.....I used a lot of Zircotek's stuff around the heat critical areas on mine,and I know they do manifold and other exhaust system coatings as well.
We placed some of their Zircoflex around the transfer case,and areas of the bulkhead near the turbo.

Are you looking at a larger radiator as well?...the primary coolant pump on the S3 is plastic and we had that replaced with one with a metal impeller for reliability as well,although the radiator and cooling on mine are nowhere near as stressed as on a race car.
 
S3Alex said:
It's always good to post useful info on each other's threads,and sometimes you pick up something really useful,as I have so many times here,so don't worry about it.

Who did you choose for the coating?.....I used a lot of Zircotek's stuff around the heat critical areas on mine,and I know they do manifold and other exhaust system coatings as well.
We placed some of their Zircoflex around the transfer case,and areas of the bulkhead near the turbo.

Are you looking at a larger radiator as well?...the primary coolant pump on the S3 is plastic and we had that replaced with one with a metal impeller for reliability as well,although the radiator and cooling on mine are nowhere near as stressed as on a race car.
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Hi Alex

This is what we are trying

Focus RS front bonnet scoop (extra air in)
Focus RS vents both sides at the back of the bonnet (hot air out)
Heat coating: Turbo, Manifold, Downpipe and removing current wrap. I don't know if you can also use the wrap on top of the ceramic? (heat retained)
Extra heat shielding on bulkhead so I don't get so damned hot (heat reflected)
Doing away with the manual pump in favour of an Electric water pump, Davies Craig 80 I think (heat cooled more efficiently)
Very large air cooled oil cooler 19 or 24 row. I guess I need that ally plate thing to mount the oil pipes for that and do away with that plastic **** Audi use LOL. Do you know where I can buy that kit from? (Oil cooled more efficiently)
Bleed nipples in coolant system to aid bleeding it (we have a nasty air lock possibly in turbo cooling pipe)
Possibly 2 x 4 inch fans sucking air out the bottom of the car below turbo depending if I can mount them (more heat out)
I might also mount a Subaru reverse scoop directly over the turbo to allow extra heat out as that has quite large vents in it (even more heat out)

She lasted 15 laps before overheating and it was a very hot day (27c) of course so I think all the above should suffice to get bay temps down enough for 60 mins ragging the **** out of her on a hot day.
 
15Degrees said:
Hi Alex

This is what we are trying

Focus RS front bonnet scoop (extra air in)
Focus RS vents both sides at the back of the bonnet (hot air out)
Heat coating: Turbo, Manifold, Downpipe and removing current wrap. I don't know if you can also use the wrap on top of the ceramic? (heat retained)
Extra heat shielding on bulkhead so I don't get so damned hot (heat reflected)
Doing away with the manual pump in favour of an Electric water pump, Davies Craig 80 I think (heat cooled more efficiently)
Very large air cooled oil cooler 19 or 24 row. I guess I need that ally plate thing to mount the oil pipes for that and do away with that plastic **** Audi use LOL. Do you know where I can buy that kit from? (Oil cooled more efficiently)
Bleed nipples in coolant system to aid bleeding it (we have a nasty air lock possibly in turbo cooling pipe)
Possibly 2 x 4 inch fans sucking air out the bottom of the car below turbo depending if I can mount them (more heat out)
I might also mount a Subaru reverse scoop directly over the turbo to allow extra heat out as that has quite large vents in it (even more heat out)

She lasted 15 laps before overheating and it was a very hot day (27c) of course so I think all the above should suffice to get bay temps down enough for 60 mins ragging the **** out of her on a hot day.
Click to expand...

I'd certainly think it's worth looking at Zircotec.

Zircotec - high performance heat management for automotive and motorsport

The range of solutions they have is quite wide,and includes coating exhausts etc as well.

For the oil cooler,you do need a sandwich plate as a take off,and thermostat so you don't run the cooler all of the time(only when needed),and I used a Mocal kit on the Escort.

This will cheer you up.....when the kit was fitted,the reward was the car spitting oil everywhere on it's first run as one of the Aeroquip lines wasnt quite tight enough.
Luckily,no damage.
 
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