Big turbo S3 Issues .. Fault codes and Logs

[Nyteryda]

Evening all

looking for some advice on some data i retrieved from the car using vagcom. main symptoms i have are hard cold start, general power loss and car doesnt want to rev under acceleration past approx 5.8k rpms.

several fault codes and a logged third gear pull below


3 Faults Found:


17526 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B1 S2: Open Circuit
P1118 - 35-00 - -


17522 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1114 - 35-00 - Please Register/Activate


16706 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P0322 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate

	RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow			RPM	Temperature	Lambda	Bin. Bits			RPM	Voltage	Temp	Temp
TIME						TIME						TIME
STAMP	/min	%	ms	g/s		STAMP	/min	°C	%			STAMP	/min	V	°C	°C
0.91	920	32.3	5.1	11.67		0.01	1760	81	0	110111		0.4	1680	13.65	81	36
2.13	1480	50.4	5.78	17.97		1.31	1080	80	0	110111		1.71	1200	13.86	80	37
3.42	2000	23.3	2.38	9.92		2.62	2040	80	0	100101		3.02	1960	13.86	80	36
4.72	2200	65.4	5.78	32.39		3.82	1960	80	-5.5	101011		4.32	2080	13.79	80	37
5.95	2800	82	7.48	46.44		5.14	2360	80	5.5	101001		5.54	2600	13.72	80	37
7.36	3640	97.7	8.16	71.56		6.45	3080	80	6.3	101001		6.85	3320	13.58	80	36
8.65	2800	16.5	0	6.22		7.76	3880	80	10.2	101001		8.16	3800	13.79	80	34
9.87	2720	85	7.48	47.5		9.05	2600	80	-0.8	100001		9.47	2640	13.86	80	34
11.37	3240	116.5	11.9	76.64		10.37	2840	80	10.9	101001		10.88	3040	13.79	79	35
12.57	3880	160.2	20.4	127.03		11.77	3440	80	15.6	101000		12.18	3640	13.37	80	35
13.79	4680	176.7	25.16	157.39		12.99	4160	80	20.3	101000		13.39	4440	13.79	80	35
15.1	5440	178.9	26.52	182.86		14.19	4920	80	21.1	101000		14.61	5160	13.65	80	34
16.3	5720	180.5	27.54	191.22		15.5	5640	80	24.2	101000		15.9	5720	13.79	79	36
17.52	4320	14.3	0	8.69		16.7	5760	79	0	110000		17.1	4840	13.72	79	34
18.81	4160	14.3	0	11.47		17.92	4280	79	0	110000		18.32	4240	13.72	79	34
20.03	3200	15	0	9.56		19.21	3760	79	0	110000		19.63	3040	13.65	79	35
21.42	2920	15	0	8.86		20.52	3080	80	0	110000		20.92	3000	13.65	79	35

 

[Scullies]

MAF looks dead. Did you try running it with the MAF unplugged?

also second oxygen sensor might need replacing. B1S2 = bank 1 sensor 2

 

[Nyteryda]

Annoyingly i replaced both those bits from eurocarparts recently ..

 

[Gizmo20VT]

Car is adding alot of fuel from 2700-5800, any logs with actual boost vs desired?

Would be nice to see the rest of the error codes...

What temp readings are those in the last coloum?

Check fuel pressure.

 

[Scullies]

I retract my statement
I was reading the injection readings as the g/s reading.

MAF seems to be working

 

[<tuffty/>]

Something is amiss as the injector duty is mentally high... at 5720rpm the injectors are over 27ms and the ECU is adding 24% fuel.... that suggests a tired fuel pump

Also notice the engine temp doesn't get over 80 degrees...

17522/P1114 - Ross-Tech Wiki
17522/P1114 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2: Internal Resistance too High

16706/P0322/000802 - Ross-Tech Wiki
16706/P0322/000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal

You have stated in the title this is a big turbo S3 so applying the normal methods of diagnostics is going to be tricky especially as we have no ide of the spec, what actual mods you have done, what mapping, stuff thats been removed, stuff that been uprated etc... going in blind atm..

I assume you have a decat? is the rear lambda plugged in? suggests the rear lambda is shot... (and seemingly not coded out?)

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ok... found some info about your car...
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/174111-injectors-big-turbo-set-up.html

I assume the above is still relevant and that you are using injectors that are too small?

Seems your issues are too small an injector and potentially a tired fuel pump... please clarify current spec

<tuffty/>

 

[Nyteryda]

Ok... found some info about your car...
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/174111-injectors-big-turbo-set-up.html

I assume the above is still relevant and that you are using injectors that are too small?

Seems your issues are too small an injector and potentially a tired fuel pump... please clarify current spec

<tuffty/>

hi

thanks for all your responses .. the car has the same spec as in the posted thread link, however i have fitted a new maf, cts, rear o2 sensor and spark plugs since then. in response to suggestions of a tired fuel pump i have got a bosch 044 inline ready to plumb in, i already tried a lower mileage used s3 intank one but no difference. for a while it was taking three cranks to start the car with a lot of spluttering, now its taking 5-10 cranks.. warm restart fine no problem.. wondering if that is fuel pressure related aswell

 

[superkarl]

You are ignoring the fact people have told you the injectors are too small

Thre is no way around it.

 

[Nyteryda]

You are ignoring the fact people have told you the injectors are too small

There is no way around it.

when jabba put those 450s in during the mapping session i did question it at the time but went with their decision as they are the 'experts'.. i did ring them up on a later date to discuss it again and they insisted that they were not too small so i focused on fuel delivery instead. from what i can understand from the log they do seem to be maxed out ? (my first log!) .. however when it was mapped it came in with 343bhp running lean at top end iirc, so the injectors must be good for that at least which is a lot more than its putting out at the mo ?

 

[<tuffty/>]

No... get um changed for at least 550's and with an 044 inline backing up the intank you can use a 4bar FPR to give more than enough fuelling overhead..

440's on a wideband ECU is not good for this powerlevel... no overhead left... the logs say it all..

I have seen a few Jabba mapped cars and would rather not continue to comment but needless to say your current setup is not right...

Bill maxed 550's out at around 360hp on a big turbo LCR recently...

There are other tuning 'tricks' Jabba use too... I would guess you have a 'label' stuck on your MAF element?...

My advice is this.... fit the inline, get 550cc Bosch injectors and a 4bar FPR then go to Bill or Niki and get it mapped properly... you will not regret it..

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

when jabba put those 450s in during the mapping session i did question it at the time but went with their decision as they are the 'experts'.. i did ring them up on a later date to discuss it again and they insisted that they were not too small so i focused on fuel delivery instead. from what i can understand from the log they do seem to be maxed out ? (my first log!) .. however when it was mapped it came in with 343bhp running lean at top end iirc, so the injectors must be good for that at least which is a lot more than its putting out at the mo ?

They are too small for that power
As confirmed by the logs... simple evidence

confirm fuel pressure

and state your actual spec.... if you want help...

 

[Nyteryda]

ok guys, changed over the 450 green giants for siemens 630s .. i know it needs mapping again but it pulls hard past the previous 5.5k cut-off point now which I am over the moon about !

My conclusion is that JABBASPORT are a joke, they fitted injectors that were categorically too small for the application and (potentially) compromised the entire engine build by letting me drive off with ridiculously high lean readings (mike told me it was the fuel pump at fault which i spent much time and money investigating to no avail).

When quizzed on their decision they bull****ted my engine builder and even tried to keep my old injectors after removal (they were actually bigger than the 450s that Mike told me were 'perfect'.. 'not too big' Mike said) to seemingly hide their deviousness. In no uncertain terms I feel robbed by these people and would try to take them to the cleaners if I didn't have better things to be getting on with ..

Anyway, moving on to those better things .. before I get it mapped again, is it worth putting on an r32 throttle body ? happy with any gains it may yield..

cheers

 

[badger5]

another happy jabba customer then... woops

onward and upward dude..

 

[Nyteryda]

Yep.. just need to get a few minor things sorted out now (slight engine oil leak/slight exhaust leak/ext fuel pump fitted) and then will be looking to have it mapped, i guess i just need to give you a call (bill) when the car is ready to see when you have a slot ..

ps is it worth fitting an r32 throttle body in conjunction with (already fitted) rmr manifold and agu head ?

 

[superkarl]

Yes fit it

 

[<tuffty/>]

...ps is it worth fitting an r32 throttle body in conjunction with (already fitted) rmr manifold and agu head ?

Yes fit it

...don't forget to weld beads on the end or your hoses will pop off...

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

Yep.. just need to get a few minor things sorted out now (slight engine oil leak/slight exhaust leak/ext fuel pump fitted) and then will be looking to have it mapped, i guess i just need to give you a call (bill) when the car is ready to see when you have a slot ..

ps is it worth fitting an r32 throttle body in conjunction with (already fitted) rmr manifold and agu head ?

what spec is this engine?

 

[Nyteryda]

rmr manifold
agu head
82.5mm 8.5:1 pistons
upgraded rods
630cc injectors
gt2871r

 

[badger5]

what exhaust manifold and downpipe size?
T25 manifold and internal gated turbo yea? what a/r hotside?

 

[Nyteryda]

i have a t25 top mount cast manifold sourced from the ttshop (iirc) and a ceramic coated 3" downpipe .. was just about to order the dp new from the ttshop for around £6-700 when a lightly used one popped up on ebay literally the same day for £120 delivered .. touch !

 

[Nyteryda]

think its 0.64 hotside and 0.60 cold side

 

[Nyteryda]

heres my latest log with the larger injectors being the only difference from the log above

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'004				Group C:	'006
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow	RPM	Voltage	Temperature	Temperature	RPM	Load	Temperature	Lambda
	TIME					TIME					TIME
Marker	STAMP	/min	%	ms	g/s	STAMP	/min	V	°C	°C	STAMP	/min	%	°C	%
	0.82	1360	26.3	1.7	6.94	0.01	760	13.58	82	27	0.4	1000	27.8	27	-1.6
	2.22	1360	24.1	1.7	6.75	1.31	1600	13.58	82	27	1.71	1480	21.8	27	-1.6
	3.52	1280	76.7	5.1	19.19	2.62	1240	13.58	82	27	3.04	1280	35.3	27	-1.6
	4.74	1640	78.2	5.1	25.11	3.92	1440	13.58	82	28	4.33	1520	17.3	27	-1.6
	6.04	3680	106	6.8	83.64	5.15	2000	13.72	82	28	5.64	2840	89.5	27	-1.6
	7.26	3120	91.7	7.82	60.92	6.44	4640	13.72	81	27	6.85	3560	14.3	26	-1.6
	8.67	4520	168.4	18.36	159.72	7.66	3320	13.51	81	27	8.16	3840	126.3	27	-1.6
	9.87	6560	190.2	25.84	246.75	9.07	5240	13.44	81	28	9.47	5920	191.7	27	-1.6

 

[badger5]

too short a log and odd blocks to log imho

I usually look at 002,020,115 and 003,115,118, if looking for fueling things 001,031,118
etc etc and 3rd or 4th gear pull 2krpm - 6krpm

 

[Nyteryda]

ok, its only my 2nd log so still experimenting

next time i'm out in the car i'll log those blocks you suggested.. when you say the duration is too short, how do you mean exactly ? use a longer gear or do repeated pulls ?

 

[<tuffty/>]

...when you say the duration is too short, how do you mean exactly ? use a longer gear or do repeated pulls ?

...this....

... 3rd or 4th gear pull 2krpm - 6krpm

That looks like you used 1st or 2nd gear... 3rd or 4th will give more data over the rev range... 200-500 rpm steps rather 1500 rpm steps as in your last one

<tuffty/>

 

[superkarl]

Shame you cant change the sample rate for whatever gear you use so you dont have to go breaking speed limits

 

[<tuffty/>]

Shame you cant change the sample rate for whatever gear you use so you dont have to go breaking speed limits

Its more the overall speed mate... logging multiple blocks slows data capture down quite a bit... you can go into the advanced blocks section and select individual params to log to get rid of the chuff... this speeds things up a bit but the faster logger I have ever seen id ME7Logger on NefMoto... its not for n00bs though..

<tuffty/>

 

[Nyteryda]

ah ok, cheers tufty .. i thought that was a 3rd gear pull but may well be wrong, will do some more anyway .. like superkarl says i was concentrating on my speed mostly and if any rozzers were lurking around. It seems quite hard to find a place thats 'safe' to do some 'testing', empty A road/Motorway slip-roads seem the best option, not many round here are flat though

 

[badger5]

private roads - lol
dyno's

difficult otherwise to find stretch of road to explore revs in 3rd gear or above to 6krpm..

 

[Nyteryda]

yes it is difficult .. plenty of private roads round my way, but also plenty of speed-humps so a definite no-go unless you like flying !