Time for a build thread....big turbo

[S.]

what can i say. epic!

 

[S3Alex]

what can i say. epic!

Bill will probably be epic as well!

 

[S.]

i was thinking about the bill

 

[S3Alex]

i was thinking about the bill

I prefer not to think about that.

Re the head,I was recommended Race Developments for that and probably the easiest solution is to find a good used head and have that worked on.

The manifold has been on the back burner for a while and will be done at the same time as the head when I get around to it.

Now..... Why didn't I buy an R8.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Perfect is not fun!

 

[S3Alex]

Perfect is not fun!

It's faster than a V8 anyway.

And it has a boot and 4 seats. Lol.

 

[S.]

I prefer not to think about that.

Re the head,I was recommended Race Developments for that and probably the easiest solution is to find a good used head and have that worked on.

The manifold has been on the back burner for a while and will be done at the same time as the head when I get around to it.

Now..... Why didn't I buy an R8.

because you would do the same from the schratch

 

[sliced]

Hey mate, how does your s3 fair against a gtr?

Curious as im tryin against one today :$

 

[S3Alex]

Hey mate, how does your s3 fair against a gtr?

Curious as im tryin against one today :$

That depends,as with all things.

I would never say that it "kills GTR's",as it comes down to power/weight,and power delivery etc,even if you leave handling out of the equation.

The GTR weighs nearly 1.8 tonnes,and mine weighs just under 1.5t,and will quite easily keep up with,or out run a stock GTR(or M5 V10 etc),but once the GTR is tuned to above 600bhp,then it starts to get the upper hand,and from a standing start,I have no doubt that the GTR's launch control would make a huge difference in drag runs.

The GTR's only real disadvantage is it's overall bulk...it IS a big car,both in physical dimensions and weight,and having seen a couple of people struggle on our lovely off-camber potholed greasy roads,that does make a difference also.

What you have to take into account though,is what you can do with the GTR.....if you have deep enough pockets,you can get a LOT of power.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

What you have to take into account though,is what you can do with the GTR.....if you have deep enough pockets,you can get a LOT of power.

Like this one made in Romania: Exelixis Motorsport GT-R 1500R at Drag Day Elliniko - YouTube

 

[sliced]

That depends,as with all things.

I would never say that it "kills GTR's",as it comes down to power/weight,and power delivery etc,even if you leave handling out of the equation.

The GTR weighs nearly 1.8 tonnes,and mine weighs just under 1.5t,and will quite easily keep up with,or out run a stock GTR(or M5 V10 etc),but once the GTR is tuned to above 600bhp,then it starts to get the upper hand,and from a standing start,I have no doubt that the GTR's launch control would make a huge difference in drag runs.

The GTR's only real disadvantage is it's overall bulk...it IS a big car,both in physical dimensions and weight,and having seen a couple of people struggle on our lovely off-camber potholed greasy roads,that does make a difference also.

What you have to take into account though,is what you can do with the GTR.....if you have deep enough pockets,you can get a LOT of power.

yea GT-R has silly amounts of power from tuning.
well this was the results :$

 

[S3Alex]

yea GT-R has silly amounts of power from tuning.
well this was the results :$

Where was that one and how much power?

 

[pinterovski]

 

[S3Alex]

I think that's cheating!

1500bhp is probably a bit beyond what I can hope for here.

LOL.

 

[S3Alex]

Anyhow.....

As the time approaches for more of everything,it's like everyone else finds in that the list grows,and you listen to a few mates who have different approaches to the same problems and so on....

If I leave the list as below,then a conservative boost increase to 2.2 bar ought to be possible,and we can also look at the timing for what's basically 105RON (or thereabouts) fuelling with WMI.

I've found another solution to fuelling if that becomes neccesssary,but with the current system rated to 600bhp,that shouldn't be required,and I'd need the new manifold and ECU to get into that area...which brings me back to the intake manifold,which is in development.

If I ever do get around to the new manifold and extra injectors,I think I've found all of the right parts in terms of ECU etc.

The diff won't require any mucking around as it should simply slot right in(famous last words),and will make a bit more room for prying the turbo out,while the gearbox is out.

Need also to swap out the current WMI injector for the next size up.

The next problem is the turbo inlet downpipe,as it's currently a 3" pipe,custom built for the car,and ideally with the new turbo,we should run a 4" pipe,but of course the master cylinder makes that impossible.

In any case,the MAF is also a 3" restriction,so I guess that's not logical to try for a 4" downpipe with that restriction before it.


So...that leaves the exhaust to be fixed as it has a little hole in it before one of the lambda probes.

And the list...

Diff
Turbo
Possibly new CAI
3 bar boost gauge
WMI injector upsize.
Exhaust repair

I guess while that's out it may be an idea to put a wideband air/fuel ratio probe in....


Boring bits.....

Rear brakes
MOT

 

[sliced]

gtr was running 650bhp :$

 

[S3Alex]

gtr was running 650bhp :$

So that gives it a power/weight of at least 360bhp/tonne.

That would give it an advantage over mine which is around 330bhp/tonne.....but not for too much longer.


Put in perspective,there are not a huge number of cars in the 350+bhp/tonne bracket,and fewer still above 400bhp/tonne.

The GTR has always been a tuner's dream,with a good base capacity(even in the early days,by comparison with the opposition),and bucket loads of decent parts waiting to be fitted.
There is no substitute for cubes,and coupled with a really good aftermarket parts chain,you can see why it's so popular.

For me,it was a bit too bulky,and didn't fit what I wanted,but who knows,in a few years,that or an R8 to turbocharge,might be fun.....at the moment even finding parking space for a GTR would be difficult!


Right now,I'm still enjoying playing with the TFSi,and still surprised by what can be done with a 2.0L engine now,compared to the limits not many years ago.

 

[superkarl]

Anyhow.....

As the time approaches for more of everything,it's like everyone else finds in that the list grows,and you listen to a few mates who have different approaches to the same problems and so on....

If I leave the list as below,then a conservative boost increase to 2.2 bar ought to be possible,and we can also look at the timing for what's basically 105RON (or thereabouts) fuelling with WMI.

I've found another solution to fuelling if that becomes neccesssary,but with the current system rated to 600bhp,that shouldn't be required,and I'd need the new manifold and ECU to get into that area...which brings me back to the intake manifold,which is in development.

If I ever do get around to the new manifold and extra injectors,I think I've found all of the right parts in terms of ECU etc.

The diff won't require any mucking around as it should simply slot right in(famous last words),and will make a bit more room for prying the turbo out,while the gearbox is out.

Need also to swap out the current WMI injector for the next size up.

The next problem is the turbo inlet downpipe,as it's currently a 3" pipe,custom built for the car,and ideally with the new turbo,we should run a 4" pipe,but of course the master cylinder makes that impossible.

In any case,the MAF is also a 3" restriction,so I guess that's not logical to try for a 4" downpipe with that restriction before it.


So...that leaves the exhaust to be fixed as it has a little hole in it before one of the lambda probes.

And the list...

Diff
Turbo
Possibly new CAI
3 bar boost gauge
WMI injector upsize.
Exhaust repair

I guess while that's out it may be an idea to put a wideband air/fuel ratio probe in....


Boring bits.....

Rear brakes
MOT

Is an inlet manifold a big job? With regards to injectors? Ive no knowledge of tfsi inlets, apart from the fact i dont think ive ever seen an 'uprated' one.



Also what is the maf size on the tfsi?
i plan on a 90mm intake pipe on my puny gtx28, which should be ample, but i need a bigger maf housing really to make the intake pipe worthwhile. + my stock maf maxes at 360hp, so im looking at larger oem items that will fit.

 

[S3Alex]

Is an inlet manifold a big job? With regards to injectors? Ive no knowledge of tfsi inlets, apart from the fact i dont think ive ever seen an 'uprated' one.



Also what is the maf size on the tfsi?
i plan on a 90mm intake pipe on my puny gtx28, which should be ample, but i need a bigger maf housing really to make the intake pipe worthwhile. + my stock maf maxes at 360hp, so im looking at larger oem items that will fit.

There's only one manifold right now and that's the HEP/Sorensen.

It's very nice and reassuringly expensive and comes in two versions,one with ports for extra injectors.

We've got some plans coming along but it's a way off yet although it should be pretty good if it comes through.

The proven with using larger diameter MAF housings is flow calibration and then mapping to get the thing to work with your software.

As far as I can remember,Revo have a file for the Sorensen but nothing for larger MAFs but there may well be something out there for your car.

I've used BSHs inlet pipe to the throttle body on mine with a larger throttle body pipe but the throttle itself is stock.
The advantage of the BSH pipe is its steel and plumbed for WMI ports.

 

[ekandy]

Spent the last 20 minutes reading the full thread
unbelievable progress :thumbsup:
Making me want to spend a fortune on my motor now though ...

 

[S3Alex]

Spent the last 20 minutes reading the full thread
unbelievable progress :thumbsup:
Making me want to spend a fortune on my motor now though ...

Thanks very much.

If I can help part another forum member from his or her hard earned cash,then my job is complete!

 

[Avantsline]

Epic thread Alex love the build!

Now where is my credit card

 

[S3Alex]

Epic thread Alex love the build!

Now where is my credit card

Many thanks....

I've got a good idea....

Lend me yours for a month or two while the diff and new turbo are fitted!

 

[Avantsline]

Many thanks....

I've got a good idea....

Lend me yours for a month or two while the diff and new turbo are fitted!

Thanks to you for the knowledge and inspirations!

Nice try with the credit card

Just realised Owen developments are round the corner from me so going to approach them when I have the readies to discuss more power!

Only had her a month so I think best to got stage 1 for a bit first before jumping in at the deep end

Hope the new turbo and diff go well, great reputation for quaiffe on the Vxr scene.

 

[S3Alex]

Thanks to you for the knowledge and inspirations!

Nice try with the credit card

Just realised Owen developments are round the corner from me so going to approach them when I have the readies to discuss more power!

Only had her a month so I think best to got stage 1 for a bit first before jumping in at the deep end

Hope the new turbo and diff go well, great reputation for quaiffe on the Vxr scene.

Got to try!

Owen developments have been fantastically helpful,and I'd recommend them to anyone.

The turbo should be OK,thanks to all the help from Owen,and I've used Quaife diffs before,but it'll be great to get some more traction for this car.

 

[Unitronic]

Found a low-res pic from AP of what's going on.....
.

These....have slightly more meat on them....

.
Than this....
.

How long did these last you?

 

[S3Alex]

How long did these last you?

Hi there,

I'm pretty easy on brakes,and I got a couple of years out of the VWR rotors,but with fairly easygoing pads(DS2500s).

The new AP rotors and Mintex 1155s are MUCH better.

 

[Unitronic]

I believe the Mintex 1155 pads are great to use! I have bought the Diamond dicks seeing they were rated well. My initial plan was to keep the standard calipers with a good set of pads and disks including the braided brake lines.

I like to try and keep the car as standard as possible.

 

[S3Alex]

I believe the Mintex 1155 pads are great to use! I have bought the Diamond dicks seeing they were rated well. My initial plan was to keep the standard calipers with a good set of pads and disks including the braided brake lines.

I like to try and keep the car as standard as possible.

I tried to keep mine looking pretty stock,until the last suspension changes,when it became impossible to keep the thing looking exactly as it arrived.

Now,it has a lot more camber front and rear,and also 245 width tyres,and the whole lot massively improved both understeer,and got me some more traction into the bargain.
I think you'll probably find that getting 500bhp onto the road,with things as they are will make it a real handful,as I certainly did.

We changed the Haldex controller,suspension heights,and camber,tyre width,and now a new diff is on the way to try and get enough traction.

The brakes from stock I found faded way too fast,and had little feel,so I tried a set of aftermarket pads as an interim,and thought they were pretty poor.
The next move was the VWR brake kit,as APRacing's kit wasn't ready at the time,and I would say it was a big improvement,but still lacked bite.

AMD's last change was to change the rotors to AP,and the pads,but retain the VWR 6 pot calipers,and that feels a LOT better.

 

[Kelza]

Alex you going to inters on the sunday ,hope i can meet you there on the club stand

 

[S3Alex]

Alex you going to inters on the sunday ,hope i can meet you there on the club stand

I'm afraid not!

I did go last year,saw some great cars,and son and I had a good time al round,including a few beers and a curry!

This year,I don't have the time,but I also have a little exhaust leak which is throwing a few errors and misfires.

 

[Kelza]

Thats a shame ,whats your plans full new system?

 

[S3Alex]

Thats a shame ,whats your plans full new system?

Yes....I'd loved to have gone again,but so many other things are getting in the way,including me working that weekend!

Exhaust....depends on where the hole is to be honest.
I've a feeling it's near one of the lambda probes,as the car is over-fuelling,and idling badly,both of which fit with it being there,and the obvious place is the flexi-pipe,so when it goes to AMDTuning,that's another job on the list.

Either way,it's basically a non-resonated Milltek currently,and should be easy to sort out,with a custom fitted ATP 3" downpipe and wastegate dump pipe.

 

[Dean_T]

What a superb read, to think the starting point was 2+ as well...

I bet this machine is a weapon and pure fun to drive.

I have to ask, how does it compare to the cossies you had prior - always wanted one of those myself but they were always out of my reach.

 

[S3Alex]

What a superb read, to think the starting point was 2+ as well...

I bet this machine is a weapon and pure fun to drive.

I have to ask, how does it compare to the cossies you had prior - always wanted one of those myself but they were always out of my reach.

I actually started from a stock S3,and wasn't even going to modify it,until I joined here and VAGOC,and all the people there started finding ways to make me spend money.

I was also fortunate enough to find a place near to me that could do all of the work,and make it reliable,as it's all very well building something to make power,but you have to make it last,and AMDTuning managed all of that.

It's great fun to drive,and gives many much more expensive and supposedly faster cars a nasty surprise.

OK....the Cossies.

The first was a Sapphire 2WD which went from 220bhp all the way out to 440+bhp on a semi-touring car engine,and was very quick in a straight line,but frankly scary on a wet road,and lethal on an icy road.

The last two qualities made me chop it in for an ex GpN rally Escort Cosworth,with ALS,Pectel ECU,water injection,Quaife diffs,GpN gearbox and loads more.
That weighed in at around 1300kgs or less,and had around 360+bhp at 2.5 bar,and had more torque than you'd believe via a restrictor and ALS ready turbo.

It was good for 3-odd s to 60 on any surface,but required ALL of your attention ALL of the time, never bettered 15mpg,and had an appetite for suspension parts like you wouldn't believe.

It was honestly the fastest point-to-point car I think you could put on the road,but such an effort to drive and run that it had to go.

The S3 is nowhere near as raw,but pretty close in a straight line,but nothing will prepare you for a tarmac and gravel rally car's confidence under load.

 

[Unitronic]

Very informative read love you'er thread S3Alex!! Will it be a crack on you'er down pipe Alex?

 

[S3Alex]

Very informative read love you'er thread S3Alex!! Will it be a crack on you'er down pipe Alex?

Better not be!


It's a 3" stainless downpipe so I doubt it's there.

The usual place is the flexi-pipe between downpipe and the rest of the system,but I honestly haven't had the time to get a look yet,so I think that's another job for AMDTuning when it goes in,and it sort of makes sense,as the whole system has to come down to fit the new turbo,plus the gearbox is coming out as well.

 

[Unitronic]

Better not be!


It's a 3" stainless downpipe so I doubt it's there.

The usual place is the flexi-pipe between downpipe and the rest of the system,but I honestly haven't had the time to get a look yet,so I think that's another job for AMDTuning when it goes in,and it sort of makes sense,as the whole system has to come down to fit the new turbo,plus the gearbox is coming out as well.

I have snapped my downpipe twice & like you said the flexi normally gets it. You can clearly hear it blow threw the flexi when driving. Have the engine mounts checked out while you at it it could be you'er problem m8.

I take it you going strait cut box?

 

[S3Alex]

I have snapped my downpipe twice & like you said the flexi normally gets it. You can clearly hear it blow threw the flexi when driving. Have the engine mounts checked out while you at it it could be you'er problem m8.

I take it you going strait cut box?

I'm hoping the downpipe is OK as it could be troublesome and costly to work on it.

I can definitely hear it blowing and it's overfuelling so it's around the lambda probe area.

Engine mounts are VWR/Vibratechnics semi-solid mounts but will be checked anyway.

Gearbox is coming out to check the clutch release bearing,and to give more access to the turbo,and was rebuilt a while back and is holding up well.
The SQS dog box is around £3500 so I'd rather not replace it with one of those right now!.....mine is a stock box with uprated bearings.

 

[Unitronic]

I found these boxes are very soft when you up the torque on them. They need some cooling as the oil cant handle the heat and most of the time the bearings in the casings are heated to such a degree that it expands & cracks the casing. I'm thinking of upgrading my bearings as well but in 2 minds about the strait cut or bearing upgrade? Mishimoto has a very nice gearbox cooler i'm thinking of installing.

Do you have a price on bearing upgrades & who, I believe it will set me back around £500?