K04-064 Tfsi turbo to 1.8 20vt engine

[Nick_mk2]

If Bill sponsored the mapping it would take a considerably large chunk of the build cost off....:sign_plug:

How would a K03 conversion differ. The reason I ask is that in three months time I will have access to a free K03 setup from a TFSI when we upgrade my friends Mk5.

We have already done it to the same Polo!What bhp do you think that gave us?Stock K03 no hybrid...

 

[S3Alex]

Fair point well made... this kind of fitment is popular in the states... guessing the 8P chassis has a little more room in this respect... tight as a gnats chuff on a RHD 8L's...

<tuffty/>

Its actually a PITA on the 8P as well.....mine runs a 3" downpipe to the 4" turbo housing,and clearing the master cylinder was the main reason for that choice,and we needed to adapt the kit to fit.

 

[Nick_mk2]

The intake temps on the 2.0TFSi do rise a fair bit under heavy sustained acceleration as the stock intercooler is limited if the boost is turned up.

Some of us with that engine have found intake temps running up to high 40Cs or more,and moving to a bigger inercooler and WMI cures this.
The LO400 turbo has done very well over in the TFSi world,and turned in some good figures.

The previous week we made a golf mk5 edition 30 with LO4xx and AEM WMI and we saw at dyno 475 with 60nm torgue!The car has internals and we use one big intercooler kit and one smallest that works parallel and we saw 20 celcious at car with 33 celcious in the dyno room!I think is good...

 

[16Klappe]

I should think a TFSI K03 on a 1.8t would flow between 270 and 280bhp? As I understand it their flow and power is comparable to a 1.8t K04 with much high EGT safety and more torque?

 

[S3Alex]

The previous week we made a golf mk5 edition 30 with LO4xx and AEM WMI and we saw at dyno 475 with 60nm torgue!The car has internals and we use one big intercooler kit and one smallest that works parallel and we saw 20 celcious at car with 33 celcious in the dyno room!I think is good...

I'm not surprised.


The ED30 is a great place to start,and pretty much identical to the S3 8P as you know,and when you uprate the internals you get something very tough indeed.

Mine turns out a bit over 500bhp and about 650Nm or 480lbs on the current turbo.

With just the Proalloy intercooler it will run inlet temps around 5C above ambient,with relatively short heatsoak effects in traffic,and to be honest,I haven't checked it with WMI running as the results alone were pretty good.

The WMI system on mine is also an AEM...really easy to set up and very reliable.

 

[Nick_mk2]

I should think a TFSI K03 on a 1.8t would flow between 270 and 280bhp? As I understand it their flow and power is comparable to a 1.8t K04 with much high EGT safety and more torque?

K04-023 as you said has big problem with high EGT with oem manifold!A custom manifold helps out to see lower EGT but still without to make it hyvrid you will not see more than 290-295 bhp!With the K03 of tfsi at polo we saw this number

The turbo there finished!How to explain it..it wasn't able to give us more power!We tried to give more boost but we saw only high egt and a little torgue more but no more bhp!So we let it there 303 bhp!EGts at this setup was 800-820 celcious the most we saw at full throttle 2nd-3d-4th year!These horsepower was with 1.4 bar boost at peak and 1.2 bar at 7000rpm!So the TFSI turbos are better than 20vts because of their better turbo-manifold flow and cast irons(google translate)

 

[S3Alex]

I should think a TFSI K03 on a 1.8t would flow between 270 and 280bhp? As I understand it their flow and power is comparable to a 1.8t K04 with much high EGT safety and more torque?

I honestly don't know,but I'm sure someone here will!

One thing I've learnt about here and VAGOC is someone has the right sort of knowledge base,but I can say the K04 when it's maxed out on an S3 8P will run very high EGTs,but I guess you'd expect that from any turbo run to it's limits.....an S3 8P spec K04 or LO400 on a 1.8T should deliver good power and torque.

 

[Chlippo]

This should be a project for me to do, I have a left hand drive car And I have access to S3 8P turbo and injectors for 2000$, too bad I didnt even sorted a custom map for my current setup

 

[Chlippo]

If possible and for future reference if someone can post details and part numbers about this upgrade it would be awesome. Looks equal or even better compared to a hybrid

 

[16Klappe]

K04-023 as you said has big problem with high EGT with oem manifold!A custom manifold helps out to see lower EGT but still without to make it hyvrid you will not see more than 290-295 bhp!With the K03 of tfsi at polo we saw this number

The turbo there finished!How to explain it..it wasn't able to give us more power!We tried to give more boost but we saw only high egt and a little torgue more but no more bhp!So we let it there 303 bhp!EGts at this setup was 800-820 celcious the most we saw at full throttle 2nd-3d-4th year!These horsepower was with 1.4 bar boost at peak and 1.2 bar at 7000rpm!So the TFSI turbos are better than 20vts because of their better turbo-manifold flow and cast irons(google translate)

Yeah it kind of makes sense.

But we can get that quite readily from a standard K04-024 over here. There are 4/5 cars on this forum with a genuine 300bhp.

It's good graph though, I like that a lot. The power and torque cross over is at a sensible RPM, and the figures look great.

 

[Prawn]

Power and torque cross at 5252rpm jardo, as they will on every dyno plot in the world ever. If they don't, something is seriously wrong.

 

[Prawn]

(Given equal scales and torque units)

 

[16Klappe]

 

[beachbuggy]

It is my pleasure...now we work to use an external wastegate at a K04-064 hybrid!There is no need just we want to see how it works and hear the arrrrr-arrrr Also the s3 now is with internals and loba LO4xxx and we are going to see how much bhp can give!We hope more than 420 bhp

very nice Nick
dont want to hijack but i am doing the very same on a 1.8t at the moment, with help from a few people on here. However , I've gone along the route of making up a bespoke adapter that will allow direct fitment of the k03/k04 Tfsi turbo onto the head.

Plan is to have it fitted and running in the next few weeks possibly but the main issue is the brake mc on our cars, makes fitting it all very tight . We'll be fitting a hybrid k04 on as I've been testing these for a while and hope for similar figures.

I notice on the picture above that you seem to be running a 023 compressor housing? Again I mocked one up with one as it is considerably smaller and better to use but I fear it hamper flow and really we are looking for and off the shelf setup so welding flanges to manifolds and they like isn't really an option.

Also this lends its self very nicely to the 1.8t in the A4 as the mounting is all correct orientation.

 

[Prawn]

Very interested to see how that goes for you dan good luk!

 

[badger5]

neat to see this..
rhd clutter of servo etc would need proper investigation regarding clearances

I can see the appeal for sure.

good work

 

[Nick_mk2]

If possible and for future reference if someone can post details and part numbers about this upgrade it would be awesome. Looks equal or even better compared to a hybrid

Yeah is better in my opinion because with low pressure you can have bhp!

 

[Nick_mk2]

This should be a project for me to do, I have a left hand drive car And I have access to S3 8P turbo and injectors for 2000$, too bad I didnt even sorted a custom map for my current setup

I am sure that if i had a rhd car i would be able to make appropriate downpipe and i don't think that is too difficult to intall it! For bad luck we don't have rhd out here!

 

[Nick_mk2]

Beachbuggy we don't have an A4 to work at and install a K04 for bad luck! The photo you saw was for test in an 20vt because we will fit it to a golf mk2 20vt and we made the appropriate changes to the rear engine mount! So the compressor is not the one that will be fitted!At this week i will post the bhp that we will take from an S3 BAM with internals and a L04xxx! Hope more than 420bhp..

 

[kwistof]

I am sure that if i had a rhd car i would be able to make appropriate downpipe and i don't think that is too difficult to intall it! For bad luck we don't have rhd out here!

I'd be happy to drive my S3 to Greece for a road trip to see is this works and use my motor as the RHD demo car haha

 

[Nick_mk2]

I'd be happy to drive my S3 to Greece for a road trip to see is this works and use my motor as the RHD demo car haha

Yeahh!You leave the car to us and you can go for vacation in one of our beautiful islands:icon_thumright: or you can stay with us for help!But with 32+ celcious we have now , working is too difficult and the only i have in my head is to go for swimming in the sea!hahaha

 

[IrishDave]

Well if it is too warm in Greece. You are more than welcome to come to Ireland to develop a RHD version. I can supply a car, ramp, workshop, accommodation.

 

[badger5]

K04-023 as you said has big problem with high EGT with oem manifold!A custom manifold helps out to see lower EGT but still without to make it hyvrid you will not see more than 290-295 bhp!With the K03 of tfsi at polo we saw this number

The turbo there finished!How to explain it..it wasn't able to give us more power!We tried to give more boost but we saw only high egt and a little torgue more but no more bhp!So we let it there 303 bhp!EGts at this setup was 800-820 celcious the most we saw at full throttle 2nd-3d-4th year!These horsepower was with 1.4 bar boost at peak and 1.2 bar at 7000rpm!So the TFSI turbos are better than 20vts because of their better turbo-manifold flow and cast irons(google translate)

I am surprised the results are comparible on tfsi k03 to old k03 based units.. Are you quoting at the wheel figures of flywheel power on the dynos? Our lupo k03 hybrid (1.8t stylee) will constantly produce 300bhp from 16psi boost at peak power for example.

 

[Nick_mk2]

Are you quoting at the wheel figures of flywheel power on the dynos?

What do you mean with that mate?Sorry but i really don't understand!Can you expain it more?
This week more work has be done!S3 BAM with internals with L04xx from loba motorsport 430bhp with 61nm!Soon i will have the dyno diagram in my hands!
Also my friend's Tfsi Golf mk5 edition 30 with L04xx produced 471 bhp with 60nm torgue!There are two remaps!One with WMI kit that produce this 471 bhp and one without WMI that produces 440bhp!One more friend is happy:icon_thumright:

 

[16Klappe]

Are your BHP figures at the engine, or at the wheels?

Do they include transmission losses?

 

[Nick_mk2]

wrong post

 

[Nick_mk2]

All the dynos are at the engine not wheel power(whp) and with 4th gear!The dyno we use are very strict!In another dyno may see more power +5-10bhp!

 

[Sam_]

The graph above says "Flywheel power" on the left axis. It's just a bit cut off.

 

[Nick_mk2]

The graph above says "Flywheel power" on the left axis. It's just a bit cut off.

Yeah mate...Flywheel power!

 

[superkarl]

jesus christ thats an epic dyno result, huuuge area under curve.
how do these oem turbos spool so well yet make such high figures???

 

[badger5]

looks like Dyno Dynamics rollers in the picture, which measure atw only and factor a % for transmission losses.

Nice power on a DD roller fo sho.. impressive loba K04.

Does the loba k04 use the std K04 exhaust manifold? It supports that flow?
What boost do you have to drive it at to get those figures? Any boost plots available.

Looks very tasty me likey this a lot

 

[Nick_mk2]

looks like Dyno Dynamics rollers in the picture, which measure atw only and factor a % for transmission losses.

Nice power on a DD roller fo sho.. impressive loba K04.

Does the loba k04 use the std K04 exhaust manifold? It supports that flow?
What boost do you have to drive it at to get those figures? Any boost plots available.

Looks very tasty me likey this a lot

Lobas manifold have better flow that OEM!Loba has make some things also to the mani not only to turbo!So you gain a lot with that turbo!This Golf has 2 bar overboost and 1.8bar constant!Yeah this car goes like devil in the road and has power from low rpm until the end!

 

[beachbuggy]

Loba 4xx is a complete mutant. They basically take a new k04 tfsi turbo and a ttrs turbo, chop them in half and make one turbo.. Why they do this I'm not sure i assume possibly as the ttrs bearing housing , turbine wheel are different and want fit into the k04 turbine housing, cost is sky high on this unit, but good figures..

 

[beachbuggy]

looks like Dyno Dynamics rollers in the picture, which measure atw only and factor a % for transmission losses.

Nice power on a DD roller fo sho.. impressive loba K04.

Does the loba k04 use the std K04 exhaust manifold? It supports that flow?
What boost do you have to drive it at to get those figures? Any boost plots available.

Looks very tasty me likey this a lot

yes it's a standard k04 exhaust manifold.. Maybe ported at the inlet end but other than that, just a clipped turbine wheel

 

[Gops]

This is so interesting and very strange, ill tell you why.. I've been thinking about this for some time, and was just waiting till I get to bills to ask him if this was possible because I wanted to try it! Now today I was thinking about this all day and I hadn't even seen this thread! Now I seen this thread I'm so interested!

 

[jojo]

This is so interesting and very strange, ill tell you why.. I've been thinking about this for some time, and was just waiting till I get to bills to ask him if this was possible because I wanted to try it! Now today I was thinking about this all day and I hadn't even seen this thread! Now I seen this thread I'm so interested!

DO IT!

My S3 is also available as a test mule! Lol

 

[16Klappe]

I'm currently debating whether to spend the money I was going to spend on a K04 setup on a set of rods, then buying a Black Widow K300 hybrid in September.

320bhp+, direct fit to K03 cars...Kind of eclipses the TFSI setup for performance to price.

 

[Gops]

Well, it'll be some extra cash from current hybrids but I like to be a little different ill just save up as much as I can and see what happens!

 

[Nick_mk2]

Well, it'll be some extra cash from current hybrids but I like to be a little different ill just save up as much as I can and see what happens!

We also make our hyvrids we less money but less power than lobas hyvrids! Better than oem k04 but worst than loba's!

 

[Gops]

We also make our hyvrids we less money but less power than lobas hyvrids! Better than oem k04 but worst than loba's!

i appreciate it! but it'll have to be a beach buggy hybrid if I go that route