superkarls overhaul

[<tuffty/>]

Yeah man... currently pricing up my stroker bottom end build... its kinda disheartening and exciting at the same time... paradox++

<tuffty/>

 

[Scullies]

Yeah man... currently pricing up my stroker bottom end build... its kinda disheartening and exciting at the same time... paradox++

<tuffty/>

Its kinda like selling a kidney..... you know its for a good cause but you not too sure if you really want to

 

[Paradox1]

Yeah man... currently pricing up my stroker bottom end build... its kinda disheartening and exciting at the same time... paradox++

<tuffty/>

You called

 

[superkarl]

Fitted my wheels on saturday:

TT wheels, 17 x 8 et35. Those pics were fitted with 15 and 20mm spacers. It looked wiiiiiiiiiide from the back. I will be selling the spacer kit though so they will look gay and tucked in when its on the road.

I also sorted my wrist pins out, HUGE thankyou to Ben, Bill and Tuffty :thumbsup:
Lots of progress next weekend fo sho!

 

[Westy]

Have you got any pics of the whole side of the car. I'm loving how wide the rears look and might go 15/20 as we discussed yesterday.

 

[superkarl]

theyre all i took.
notice in that second pic how narrow the tyres are, 215. a 225 or 235 might touch the arch.
i should have the proper bolts this week and i can send you a 15mm and 20mm to try. do you have long enough bolts to try it?

 

[Westy]

theyre all i took.
notice in that second pic how narrow the tyres are, 215. a 225 or 235 might touch the arch.
i should have the proper bolts this week and i can send you a 15mm and 20mm to try. do you have long enough bolts to try it?

No I don't. I only have stock bolts

If you think a 225 profile will touch the arch then I'll forget it but I think your car sits a bit lower then mine too. It migh be easier for me to stick to the more common 10/15 spacers but the closer the the arch the better the wheels look.

 

[superkarl]

in my pic the front looks alright doesnt it. i dunno. i dont wana say yeh get 15/20, then its too much and you'l be ****** off.

 

[Sam_]

Low ET is cheating, you need some wide rubber too

 

[superkarl]

Low ET is cheating, you need some wide rubber too

they are just a temp solution. i basically needed a set of wheels to be able to wheel my car in and out the garage.
one day, probably sometime around 2030, il have some et20 8 inch wide light rims of some sort

 

[Westy]

they are just a temp solution. i basically needed a set of wheels to be able to wheel my car in and out the garage.
one day, probably sometime around 2030, il have some et20 8 inch wide light rims of some sort

I had a look at TD wheels again earlier as Awesome have a 30% off TDs. As soon as you choose ET20 and 8" the prices goes mental. Just under £1k! Joke.

 

[superkarl]

just for the hell of it, here is a compressor map comparing the 2867 (red), to the 3071 (blue):

and overlaid with 1.8 displacement, compared with a normal 2871:

(reference: mainstayinc, vwvortex.com)

 

[<tuffty/>]

This does make me want one... I would use v-band fittings though so tial hotside, external gate and TSR mani... if it wasn't for the fact I have already got what I have... I am just as excited to see what this turbo does as I am Stacey's

...ah well, just have to put up with a stroker bottom end and billet comp wheel instead

<tuffty/>

 

[S3Alex]

just for the hell of it, here is a compressor map comparing the 2867 (red), to the 3071 (blue):

and overlaid with 1.8 displacement, compared with a normal 2871:

(reference: mainstayinc, vwvortex.com)

Thats looks very good indeed,and bears out what APR have been saying about the 2867 being a very good turbo overall.

I'm sure that's going to give a really decent bottom end as well as good power at the top,and probably the best of all worlds when you weigh up lag,power,and the other variables.

Good luck getting it all running soon.

 

[superkarl]

This does make me want one... I would use v-band fittings though so tial hotside, external gate and TSR mani... if it wasn't for the fact I have already got what I have... I am just as excited to see what this turbo does as I am Stacey's

...ah well, just have to put up with a stroker bottom end and billet comp wheel instead

<tuffty/>

what you just said, v-band tial etc, is my stage 2, already thought of and already want so so badly!
if i couldve, i would've

a billet wheel on your setup will still be epic! with a stroker you wont be too far behind stacey surely.

 

[Alex C]

are there any suitable after class catch up lectures i should attend to read these

 

[Westy]

All I'm seeing in these threads is ££££££££.

 

[<tuffty/>]

what you just said, v-band tial etc, is my stage 2, already thought of and already want so so badly!
if i couldve, i would've

a billet wheel on your setup will still be epic! with a stroker you wont be too far behind stacey surely.

Not sure it will get to that level but I also want to make myself a tubular manifold as a project to replace the log mani I have as this is essentially the final flow restriction before we get into the silly 1 or 2 hp finding techniques which I cannot be a*sed with.. not chasing numbers...

If I can get mine to 420hp, 350+ftlb's of Badger5 torques at sensible boost (24psi ideally) then I will be happy... double (AMK) factory hp and all the torques consistently and reliably..

<tuffty/>

 

[superkarl]

are there any suitable after class catch up lectures i should attend to read these

furthest point on the right = 58% efficiency, which is the least garrett include on their compressor maps and considered the maximum they are able to produce.
Read down from the furthest point and you have the max airflow, in this case 47lbs. Garrett estimate 10hp for every lb of air. This is the capability of the COMPRESSOR alone, not taking into account the hot side.
up the right is pressure, obv minus atmospheric pressure to get your boost figure.
In the case of maximum airflow (47lbs), this will be at roughly 24/25psi.
The overlay of rpm in the second graph is to gauge an idea of spool, max boost, and rev limit etc. BUT, doesnt take into account hotside limitations so its not definitive.
The left hand side of the 'island' is the surge line, il guess you know what surge is. This gives an indication of how much boost you can run at a given rpm, when overlaid with displacement.
generally, a nice straight up surge line = good boost response and spool. Notice better spool up than the 3071 its overlaid with.

And thats, pretty much all i know. Theres a chap on vortex who i've referenced who explains these things very well to people who request compressor maps. They arent the be all and end all though, theres obv alot more too it hardware wise that will affect these things.

 

[S3Alex]

furthest point on the right = 58% efficiency, which is the least garrett include on their compressor maps and considered the maximum they are able to produce.
Read down from the furthest point and you have the max airflow, in this case 47lbs. Garrett estimate 10hp for every lb of air. This is the capability of the COMPRESSOR alone, not taking into account the hot side.
up the right is pressure, obv minus atmospheric pressure to get your boost figure.
In the case of maximum airflow (47lbs), this will be at roughly 24/25psi.
The overlay of rpm in the second graph is to gauge an idea of spool, max boost, and rev limit etc. BUT, doesnt take into account hotside limitations so its not definitive.
The left hand side of the 'island' is the surge line, il guess you know what surge is. This gives an indication of how much boost you can run at a given rpm, when overlaid with displacement.
generally, a nice straight up surge line = good boost response and spool. Notice better spool up than the 3071 its overlaid with.

And thats, pretty much all i know. Theres a chap on vortex who i've referenced who explains these things very well to people who request compressor maps. They arent the be all and end all though, theres obv alot more too it hardware wise that will affect these things.

Very well put,and simple enough for me to understand!

It's striking that the only point the GT3071 is slightly better,is at the ragged edge of maximum flow,and that's the main reason for the GT3071 on mine being moved on for a GTX3076.
It's pretty obvious(even to me,as I'm not good at maps)that mine's at it's limits on what I'm running,and just shows again how good the GTX2867 is.

 

[superkarl]

Very well put,and simple enough for me to understand!

It's striking that the only point the GT3071 is slightly better,is at the ragged edge of maximum flow,and that's the main reason for the GT3071 on mine being moved on for a GTX3076.
It's pretty obvious(even to me,as I'm not good at maps)that mine's at it's limits on what I'm running,and just shows again how good the GTX2867 is.

im just a big nerd and love to find out these things and how they work.
I still dont fully understand some aspects.

yes yours it at what, 450? so pretty much before efficiency really starts to fall off. basically where you'd want to be without taking things too far. Meaning for more you need to step it up, which you certainly are!
you should probably check this out:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/84984-lets-get-then-my-2-1-conversion.html
pushing 600hp soon.

 

[S3Alex]

im just a big nerd and love to find out these things and how they work.
I still dont fully understand some aspects.

yes yours it at what, 450? so pretty much before efficiency really starts to fall off. basically where you'd want to be without taking things too far. Meaning for more you need to step it up, which you certainly are!
you should probably check this out:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/84984-lets-get-then-my-2-1-conversion.html
pushing 600hp soon.

Mine has "issues" with the rolling road...LOL.

What we found was that it pulls back load and timing on the RR,which it doesn't do under real road conditions,and I know an Aussie racer who had the same problems with the Haldex doing wierd things on the dyno.

Anyway,to cut a long story short,it made over 480bhp while it was pulling back,so we know it makes comfortably more on the real road,but thats at 2bar,and running water/meth,which means pretty well maxed out for the poor old 3071.

I think on the stock RS4 injectors,from what another mate of mine was getting,that 580bhp is the outside limit without going to a Sorensen manifold and extra injectors etc,so maybe 10% more than I get now,plus more torque,and a turbo well within it's map will be about right.
The fuelling is pretty rich currently,so there's room for a little more there.

That leaves a pile of other bits on the horizon....diff,head,inlet and exhaust manifolds and so on for a few more projects.....also found a 2.2L conversion if I really get stuck for more!

Andrew's thread is amazing....thanks for reminding me of that one.

 

[superkarl]

Never fails to amaze me what the tfsi can do, with some relatively stock hardware.
I shouldve just bought one of those instead :/

 

[Prawn]

Bit late to the party, and I've never taken the time to learn compressor maps. So ill comment on something else instead.

Thise wheels of yours chap, very nice. They're actually 7.5J though and ET32

 

[superkarl]

I can assure you mr prawn, that they are 8j and et35. Can get a wee photo if you like

 

[s3dave]

Yes they are, weird but true...

 

[S3Alex]

Never fails to amaze me what the tfsi can do, with some relatively stock hardware.
I shouldve just bought one of those instead :/

I think what all of you guys are doing is amazing.

When I started modifying cars,getting 200bhp/litre was quite an achievement,and 250bhp/litre was seriously expensive as the Cosworths proved to me.....300bhp/litre was usually a grenade.

Now,400bhp from a 1.8L engine isn't cheap,but it's reliable and possible,and won't blow up on demand.

The TFSi is just an extension of that,and the 2.5L engine has more potential still.

The tricky bits on the TFSi are fuelling and making it all work together,but thats one of the fun parts.....the guys at AMD always rise to the challenge,and find a way of making the thing work,and all I do is find the ideas and the parts.

Good luck!

 

[Gops]

So much technical porn! I like

 

[superkarl]

I think what all of you guys are doing is amazing.

When I started modifying cars,getting 200bhp/litre was quite an achievement,and 250bhp/litre was seriously expensive as the Cosworths proved to me.....300bhp/litre was usually a grenade.

Now,400bhp from a 1.8L engine isn't cheap,but it's reliable and possible,and won't blow up on demand.

The TFSi is just an extension of that,and the 2.5L engine has more potential still.

The tricky bits on the TFSi are fuelling and making it all work together,but thats one of the fun parts.....the guys at AMD always rise to the challenge,and find a way of making the thing work,and all I do is find the ideas and the parts.

Good luck!

yeh VAG do an amazing job of evolving their engines, each one, 1.8, 2.0, 2.5, has been such a good platform and the best in the industry certainly in their respective catagories.

We 1.8t users dont half get jealous of the figires available on oem hardware, and takes us alot of money and planning to even match what a stock turbo 2.0 and 2.5 litre can do.

The novelty we have, and one i like is the 'its just a 1.8' statement i can make to anyone who will hopefully be amazed at what it puts out, and one reason why id not like to increase displacement purely for that novelty.

Anyway i look forward to meeting you and your car at gti international if youl be there? by then there will alot of asn members with a wide selection of exotic setups.

 

[Prawn]

Definitely a photo required superK!

they're reps then? Never knew reps of these were made!


Ronal stamp on the back? Genuine ones are definitely 7.5J et32

 

[Prawn]

Not knocking it, 8J is better. Just surprised!

 

[Prawn]

The novelty we have, and one i like is the 'its just a 1.8' statement i can make to anyone who will hopefully be amazed at what it puts out

i had this just last week, a guy was complimenting me on the car, and asked if it was a 2.0 or a v6, I said it was just a tuned 1.8T. The reply was 'oh, my a4 is a 2.8 v6, so a bit faster than yours still

 

[S3Alex]

yeh VAG do an amazing job of evolving their engines, each one, 1.8, 2.0, 2.5, has been such a good platform and the best in the industry certainly in their respective catagories.

We 1.8t users dont half get jealous of the figires available on oem hardware, and takes us alot of money and planning to even match what a stock turbo 2.0 and 2.5 litre can do.

The novelty we have, and one i like is the 'its just a 1.8' statement i can make to anyone who will hopefully be amazed at what it puts out, and one reason why id not like to increase displacement purely for that novelty.

Anyway i look forward to meeting you and your car at gti international if youl be there? by then there will alot of asn members with a wide selection of exotic setups.

I know what you mean...I'm going to be looking at all the 2.5L figures when they all get their act together.

I also snigger at the "oh it's only a 1.8/2.0 etc brigade" as they often come off worse in every respect(acceleration,handling etc),when the car with the "little" engine disappears into the distance.

I'd love to be going to the Inters this year....I went last year went it poured with rain,but can't make it this year,so maybe next year,if we all have our cars bolted back together,we'd be in good shape to meet up.

 

[superkarl]

Definitely a photo required superK!

they're reps then? Never knew reps of these were made!


Ronal stamp on the back? Genuine ones are definitely 7.5J et32

i cleaned them all front and back and i checked them out. Fairly confident there is oe stamps. Plus i had to order radius seat bolts for them. Reps and aftermarket wheels require taper seat bolts.
Il get a pic on sat tho. they a temporary measure anyway, and frankly still fairly heavy

 

[Westy]

Can you weigh one please Karl. I'd be interested to see how much heavier they are to my 7.5j ones.

 

[superkarl]

if i can find some scales yeh

 

[Jason.s]

Nothing listed on ETKA for 8j`s. All 7.5. Lucky fcker it seems.

 

[superkarl]

Nothing listed on ETKA for 8j`s. All 7.5. Lucky fcker it seems.

maybe i am wrong. But im the kinda guy that checks these things out, and i had 8j et35 in my mind for whatever reason.
maybe they aren't off a TT at all

 

[burns3]

i cleaned them all front and back and i checked them out. Fairly confident there is oe stamps. Plus i had to order radius seat bolts for them. Reps and aftermarket wheels require taper seat bolts.
Il get a pic on sat tho. they a temporary measure anyway, and frankly still fairly heavy

Surely these wont be heavy for you though superkarl as you were thinking of lifting your engine out by yourself

That turbo of yours does look seriously good aswel, not sure there is actually any point in the Gtx30 after looking at those graphs. Gonna be impressive when it's all finished.

 

[superkarl]

Surely these wont be heavy for you though superkarl as you were thinking of lifting your engine out by yourself

That turbo of yours does look seriously good aswel, not sure there is actually any point in the Gtx30 after looking at those graphs. Gonna be impressive when it's all finished.

well you know, i tossed my knew engine in the car like it was a packet of crisps

and i think you mean gt30. the gtx30 is on another level!