superkarls overhaul

<tuffty/> said:
Wow... sh*te luck dude..... some kind of lean event happened there fo sho... det tastic... injectors don't go 'wrong' often but you could get them professionally cleaned and this would 'test' them too as the rigs used cycle the injectors to get the cleaning fluid through...

I would also check the state of the fuel filter and fuel rail... filter could be blocked and would drop fuel pressure, check the state of the vacuum line to the FPR as an air leak here would be fatal to the engine, remove the FPR and see if there are any rubber deposits in there.. the rubber hoses to the rail corrode internally due to the ethanol in modern fuels... this could lead to the injectors getting clogged and subsequently a lean situation...

Where there any fault codes present? this could give a clue as to why this happened...

I may be able to sort you some S3 pistons if you are stuck...

Pump can be tested using a fuel pressure tester... connects inline with the feed to the fuel rail (no the return) and should be just under 3bar on idle and 3bar + boost under load... tbh its best to test on the dyno... (we do this quite often)...

You could also test (although not as accurate especially as you are not mapped) using VCDS logs but its safest on a dyno with the pressure tester as a non mapped car is lambda 1 pretty much all the time (0.95 under load) so when it goes lean you have no margin of error

Dani... you are narrow band and therefore screwed... you will need to get a wideband AFR gauge or get yer **** to Bills (other dynos are available)...

<tuffty/>
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thanks for your input tuffty.
once i have it built back up again il do some logging to try and determine the health of the fuel pump.
i had hoped i would have one of these freak fuel pumps like reesy and prawn have that happily fuel for over 350hp. ahhh well

as for the injectors, if anyone knows anywhere that can test them appropriately id definately get it done just for closure.

AVLO said:
well karl, after spending a couple of hours to read your thread from the start im sorry to see this has happened. Its been a well documented thread buddy, just a pity you've had this happen. :banghead:

hope all gets sorted soon
Click to expand...
thanks for taking the time to read it buddy. Its not been much of a build as such until now, and with this catastrophy i can literally build the thing back up

Welly said:
Deffo some form of lean event there to cause it, no doubt.

Weird however that it's only the one cylinder. It's got to be a faulty injector really... At least that's what I would have thought due to no evidence on any other cylinder.

Blocks can be picked up cheap and to be honest, after that I would just be replacing it. My advice? Buy a cheap AGU, (something like this: VW GOLF MK4 AGU 1.8T ENGINE 86K MILES | eBay) strip it, hone bores, new rings, new shells and whap it in.

It'll be like a new engine for lets be fair, for £600 - £650.
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i've considered a whole new engine if its cheap enough. However, i literally only need the block. and maybe the crank that goes with it. I have pistons, rods, head, bearings spare that i was planning to rebuild with anyway. So buying a whole new engine is kind of unnecesary, and a pain in terms of logistics/storage/moving on.

There is a truly awesome ASN member that has a block for me if this one is scrap. and that person will get my ******** one for their stroker plans as part of payment.

S3Zek said:
I have a good bam lump to go if that will help, pm me if ur interested mate,
Click to expand...
thankyou for your offer mate.

its great to know you can come on here and have so many people offer advice and help sort such big problems out.

as a general update. il get plenty of pictures on sunday when im back with the car. inspecting all my fueling hardware, although im pretty sure everything is ok as i dismantled the engine.
Il also check the resistance on the injectors to see if they are all uniform.
 
sandip003.jpg


Looks like you had the same issue as me Karl
 
I think it's because we weren't modifying fast enough

If you need a block i still have mine, don't think it's as bad as yours. Did you take any photos of you head (cylinder)
 
Ive sourced a new block but thanks anyway.

The head, unbelievably was fine, despite the spark plug tip being completely destroyed. Theres no marks on the head chamber or the valves, so weird.

Il get more pictures this sunday when im working on it. Unless my mother wants my full attention, ****** mothers day
 
i believe this is compulsory with engine builds:

block in the garage awaiting prep. Hoist is to get the old engine out (yes its still not out! not had time!)

and everyone likes shots of the gtx wheels:



Ive been clocking the turbo and figuring out the position of everything including the actuator, which was supplied and fitted but with the compressor outlet would've been facing the firewall. So in clocking the compressor round in the upward position, the actuator and bracket is now a pig and will take some modification to work.

This is a very slow build, ive not touched the car in weeks, and il probably only touch it once a week. I've accepted it wont be ready for inters, at least not mapped anyway, maybe on a base file. But i want to do everything right, if this happens to take all year so be it. Hindered by money anyway aswell as time to work on it, not to mention the car is kept 20 miles away.

onward and upward
 
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i should prob make a list.

gtx2867r .64 T25
630cc injectors
atp style mani
downpipe
brute rods with arp2000 fasteners
oem big end bearings
AGU pistons
piston rings
DA31 fuel pump with B5 inline fittings
ibiza fuel filter
oil pump with chain and tensioner
water pump
cambelt kit with tensioner
headbolts
headset inc. headgasket, valve cover gasket, stem seals, exh mani gasket
large port inlet gasket
AEB large port head
oe luk clutch and pressure plate with slave cylinder
Garrett boost gauge
 
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Should be a nice engine with the GTX28. Keen to see what it does. What's the expected output? North of 400 I assume?
 
Not with the internal gate housing no, heat is the enemy, and this has to be reliable, it might nudge 400, who knows.

Shouldve got an external gate housing really. I was looking at changing but, its more £££. With a decent sized T3 housing i dont see why 450 isnt doable, the comp wheel flows nearly 48lbs.

Il see what this does, if im ever bored of it the option for a bigger turbine housing is always there, which is kinda cool knowing there are more horse powerz to be unlocked.

On 1.8 displacement tho, and for a fairly low budget BT build, this turbo is THE one
 
Nice chair! Funky patterns there. If I put my car parts on the table, my mum would kill me. But I can't wait till you get going! All looks sexy ;)
 
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You say this is a slow build but with that can be seen as caution,hope its up and running at Inters.
 
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dude thats some lump your grafting onto the back of your crunch isn't it ;)
just start to finished your thread and even with all the ups and downs top job fella
 
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Nice one mate just got to slap it all together now ;)

Am keen on seeing your results as they really rate that turbo on vortex as seems to be a pretty good all rounder, flows a lot and is very responsive......win win :)
 
as already posted my pins don't fit my pistons:
gutted obviously, wanted it built. so trying to sort that out.

anyway i did do something:
honed bores. crank journals covered with rags and a little cardboard cut to fit the bore to protect the oil squirter



then gapping the rings:

and numbered ready for fitting


quite big ring gaps mind. put the top comp ring in and they all sat at .023'
upon some googling and ring gaps vary hugely. with some high power engine builders experimenting with very large up to .030 gap. So i thought sod it and left the top ring at .023. Then gapped the second ring at the same, as im aware this needs to be the same if not larger than the top, but i didn't want to go any bigger. And the bottom ring just needs some clearance, they sat at .018 in the end.
 
did you check gaps top middle and bottom of bore? normally larger at the top and tighter at the bottom when not rebored...

<tuffty/>
 
superkarl said:
yeh they were tighter at bottom, mine were all gapped close to top, so that it was the MAX gap it would be.
Click to expand...

Is the bottom measurement in tolerance? the rings will of course expand with heat (hence the need for a gap) so need to be towards the bottom end of the gap tolerance even if the top measurement is ball park... if not they will bind at the bottom of the stroke...

<tuffty/>
 
Even at the bottom it was only .003 smaller. My top ring was quite big (wheyyy), only middle needed gapping. Il check the bottom ring again though as i did that to .018
 
Why can't you get the wrist pins machined down to fit?
 
just got off the phone to an engineers/engine builders near my dads garage.
said they could machine them down for me, they want the pins and a rod and piston.
no quote, cost is time related, but he said he could come to some deal having worked with the garage before.
hopefully have them done by this weekend.
 
Really looking forward to seeing this come together Karl, there's a lad on scn that has a billet 2868 similar to yours, but its on revo st3 and never been dynod, so no real data from it. From what I've read though, yours sounds about the perfect turbo.

Need a video of first full throttle pull when it comes together, inside shot of your surprise though, going from ~210 to this is going to be amazing!
 
Prawn said:
Really looking forward to seeing this come together Karl, there's a lad on scn that has a billet 2868 similar to yours, but its on revo st3 and never been dynod, so no real data from it. From what I've read though, yours sounds about the perfect turbo.

Need a video of first full throttle pull when it comes together, inside shot of your surprise though, going from ~210 to this is going to be amazing!
Click to expand...
the hta2868 leon? Ive kept my eye on that, annoys me that its not been finished with a proper map and dyno'd etc.


im sure even when im running this engine in on actuator pressure il be pretty blown away lol. Which brings me onto one of my concerns, running it in, and the fact i only have an ecu with a stock map on it, im worried about it running ok and safe enough to break the engine in. Something i might have to speak to dan about, getting a file loaded, just a basic 630 map so it runs ok. Or perhaps r-tech could do it, i dont know.
 
Pretty sure yours should blow away the hta as the gtx wheels seem to flow more than other billets of the same size but admittedly seem to be laggier than them also

Running in you may get away with running stock map, maf and injectors if your turbo will flow low enough on actuator and your careful

If not like you say get a base map and do it that way ;)
 
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i think getting a base map is the way.
as long as fueling is safe.
i cant see my stock map allowing 1 bar actuator on that turbo, it will be flowing alot of air for sure.
 
audi upgrades
base map required for sure karlos.

Running in is important, don't go putting easy miles on the car, it'll glaze the rings over.

You need a map that will fuel you safely for the lowst power you can get it to produce, then run it in hard.

maybe even slacken the actuator rod to drop it to 10psi or whatever if you're able to?

14psi on your turbo should be 300bhp or there abouts, so well beyond your 210 map.

hard break in is essential IMO though, however else you do the rest of it, be sure to run it in hard!
 
Prawn said:
hard break in is essential IMO though, however else you do the rest of it, be sure to run it in hard!
Click to expand...
100% agree with you. and initial start up and run i want to be loading it up as much as is possible. therefore my fueling has to be 100% safe to begin with. with my 630s and the inline pump i should be good.
Il have to be keeping a close eye on lambda when its alive again.

i know dan provided a map for reesys car, which runs very well and safely, so hopefully he can sort me out with the same when the time comes.
 
From what I read about run in you want to use the full rev range but I wouldn't go loading up the boost for a few hundred miles. I ragged mine as hard as possible on actuator pressure for 500 miles before changing the oil for the 2nd time (first change was after 30 miles!) then after that I started using the full boost.
 
small update

just got off the phone to MrInjectorUK, who is sending my standard injectors back today.
There wasnt a single injector that was horrendously bad to cause my fried piston, they were all within factory tolerances in terms of flow and inductance.
They are all now exactly the same in terms of flow, with impovements of up to 4%, and a vastly improved spray pattern. New O-rings, and plastic seals. They are now good to be sold 'as new' to the highest bidder.
Will post a picture of the report when it arrives.
 
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Westy said:
From what I read about run in you want to use the full rev range but I wouldn't go loading up the boost for a few hundred miles. I ragged mine as hard as possible on actuator pressure for 500 miles before changing the oil for the 2nd time (first change was after 30 miles!) then after that I started using the full boost.
Click to expand...
il be doing the same fred. From the advice given by that engine builder on that website, cant remember it off hand.
I plan on changing oil same sort of intervals as you did.
 
superkarl said:
small update

just got off the phone to MrInjectorUK, who is sending my standard injectors back today.
There wasnt a single injector that was horrendously bad to cause my fried piston, they were all within factory tolerances in terms of flow and inductance.
They are all now exactly the same in terms of flow, with impovements of up to 4%, and a vastly improved spray pattern. New O-rings, and plastic seals. They are now good to be sold 'as new' to the highest bidder.
Will post a picture of the report when it arrives.
Click to expand...

******! So we still don't know what caused the engine failure...
 
I can't remember reading it, but did you check your fuel pump? If you require a spare, my old one still works if you need one :) all looks good on your build, and that turbo turns me on! :|
 
Westy said:
******! So we still don't know what caused the engine failure...
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nope, still a mystery. only other possiblity is perhaps the spark plug fell to pieces causing the detonation.

Gops said:
I can't remember reading it, but did you check your fuel pump? If you require a spare, my old one still works if you need one :) all looks good on your build, and that turbo turns me on! :|
Click to expand...
i've no way of checking the fuel pump. that will be checked when its running to see if fueling dies off top end.

another update, spoke to an experienced engineer, and the material the gudgeon pins is made of is too hard to mill down, and anyone that thinks they can risks destroying both their machine and the pin. So that plan is in the bin.
 
superkarl said:
nope, still a mystery. only other possiblity is perhaps the spark plug fell to pieces causing the detonation.


i've no way of checking the fuel pump. that will be checked when its running to see if fueling dies off top end.

another update, spoke to an experienced engineer, and the material the gudgeon pins is made of is too hard to mill down, and anyone that thinks they can risks destroying both their machine and the pin. So that plan is in the bin.
Click to expand...

I'll try and have a look around Bill's workshop tomorrow mate if Bill hasn't already...

<tuffty/>
 
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