tqs clutch inpectiuon/options

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looking to buy a clutch and fit my self. done a few in the past. and have access to ramps.
or just get on wheel ramps at front and jack stands at back. all on concrete level ground

i was worried about doing due to space and getting to the top bolts and slave cylinder. but actaully looking closer it seems i got quite a bit of space to undo and slide back wards

but im unsure weather i have a dmf or smf. it revs like a smf but cant be sure
so two main questions, can i go for any clutch made to fit my car, and itll fit both smf and dmf,
like this
Panther Clutch Kit AUDI A6 Quattro 1.8 Turbo (AJL) 97- | eBay
or
an i best just buying a smf kit like this by valeo

AUDI A4 1.8 T TURBO QUATTRO SINGLE MASS FLYWHEEL & VALEO CLUTCH CONVERSION PACK | eBay


or is there any thing else out there for about that price? maybe a southbend and by the correct smf ?

also how can i inspect the clutch/flywheel so i dont buy the incorrect kit or buy a smf when i dont need it. or is the only way to take the gb off


and lastly, ive looked every were and cant find a gearbox trolly jack for hire any were
 
All of the b5's got DMF apart from the really early 96' models and that was only a few of them.

best one is the one aragorn suggested to me and i run it and he runs it in all his B5's is the 1Z flywheel machined to take an 3B S2 clutch kit and it increases the friction plate size and clamping force aswell.

e5dee9c5.jpg

a1929a50.jpg

af276a59.jpg


flywheel in pics hasnt been skimmed or redrilled !!
 
im not looking for a bigger cluch, i know it helps but im running stock psi and i cant be bothered to do all the running about getting flywheels machined and drilled etc. the clutch kit is a valeo one has 4 years warranty and the flywheel has lifetime,

the revs drop very quickly so it could have a smf. who know whats in there. so want to buy the complete kit. for £269 its not bad.

just want to know if thats the correct one. or will that other clutch fit regardless of dmf or smf
and also about the gearbox jack
 
Ive heard mixed things when googling them like a lad stripped his car and the flywheel was wrong and the clutch didnt bolt up to the flywheel and they wanted nothing to do with it.
 
If your not bothered about tuning, just stick with the standard item. Buy a decent branded clutch such as Valeo, Sachs or LUK. Fit a new DMF if your old ones knackered.

If you are wanting a stronger "tuner" clutch then the 1Z/3B combo is about the cheapest you'll manage it.
 
mmm is that a one off?

i have spoke to you before arrgon about the 1z/3b clutch set up. thats how long its been slipping so its certainly holding on !
i juist cba with setting it up getting it machined, unless you know any one that will sell me a 1z flywheel,and direct me to the correct clutch or even supply. i dont mind spending £250/£300 on a clutch.

i do want power but cant flat out afford it for a good year maybe 18 months, being unemployed for 2 years has knocked me back but been working a year and 5 months and still got a year or so left to go till im out my sh** hole

any way off topic so what about the valeo one i showed, i dont care much for dmf or lightened but thought get smf now and then all ive got to do in 2 years or when ever replace for a southbend or what ever. is about on the market

the only reason im looking for a flywheel is because its been slipping some time, ive only got to press the clutch lightly and the revs will go up even under light load, 1st and 2nd are good, i can actually pull away hardish 1st and itll even stall in 2nd/3rd so clamping pressure is good just the plate is ******, so im thinking dont run the risk of finding a scored or heat damaged flywheel.
 
Last edited:
I got mine fairly cheap

Flywheel and bolts £45 (Used)
clutch £99 (reconditioned/genuine parts)
clutch bolts and release bearing £29 (genuine)
some machining £80
 
yer, lol after not finding much threads, just found yours.
so what about the 1z flywheel from the audi 80 tdi, and a uprated clutch for a eairly audi a4 tdi?


not finding much, not being able to see the state of the flywheel, and also if its smf or dmf is annoying,

Flywheel and bolts £45 (Used) i pursume audi 80?
clutch £99 (reconditioned/genuine parts) is this audi a4 1995 tdi clutch?
clutch bolts and release bearing £29 (genuine)
some machining £80, have no idea were i could get this done. i know a machining place but if they would do it i wouldnt know


or am i worrying to much about the flywheel? i dont want to take it apart and be presented with a worn flywheel or worst a smf flywheel!


Audi A4 1.8 T Quattro 95- Solid Flywheel Conversion, Clutch Kit Eng. AFY AJL APT | eBay


i just want it as straight forward as possible, and i want to be able to take it apart and then just bolt things back.
also as i have literly no idea whats been put in there,

altho i do have paper work for a new clutch at 120k (now 156k) in 2009
was a unipart clutch UGCGCK2651AF
top one
Audi A4 1.8 1999 | Clutch Parts, Flywheels | From Unipart Automotive Ltd
 
boost-addict said:
yer, lol after not finding much threads, just found yours.
so what about the 1z flywheel from the audi 80 tdi, and a uprated clutch for a eairly audi a4 tdi?


not finding much, not being able to see the state of the flywheel, and also if its smf or dmf is annoying,


so if im going with what you both have said


Flywheel and bolts £45 (Used) i pursume audi 80?
clutch £99 (reconditioned/genuine parts) is this audi a4 1995 tdi clutch?
clutch bolts and release bearing £29 (genuine)
some machining £80, have no idea were i could get this done. i know a machining place but if they would do it i wouldnt know

or am i worrying to much about the flywheel? i dont want to take it apart and be presented with a worn flywheel or worst a smf flywheel!

Audi A4 1.8 T Quattro 95- Solid Flywheel Conversion, Clutch Kit Eng. AFY AJL APT | eBay

i just want it as straight forward as possible, and i want to be able to take it apart and then just bolt things back.
also as i have literly no idea whats been put in there,

altho i do have paper work for a new clutch at 120k (now 156k) in 2009
was a unipart clutch UGCGCK2651AF
top one
Audi A4 1.8 1999 | Clutch Parts, Flywheels | From Unipart Automotive Ltd
Click to expand...

I would say 99% that you have a DMF, you can use the early 1Z TDI clutch as iirc arrkon uses that on his setup as this wouldnt require any machining, this is probably your best bet if your just wanting to ditch the DMF the reason i went for the setup i did is to ditch the DMF and have a clutch that can handle some power when i get round to having it tuned.

Flywheel and bolts £45 (Used) i pursume audi 80? YES FROM AN AUDI 80 JUST MESSAGED PEOPLE BREAKING ON EBAY GOT ONE FOR £45 POSTED AND MADE SURE THEY SENT THE BOLTS AS THEY ARE SHORTER THAN THE DMF ONES AS THEY WONT WORK !!
clutch £99 (reconditioned/genuine parts) is this audi a4 1995 tdi clutch? CLUTCH ON MINE WAS THE ATA/AGK VW LT PRESSURE PLATE AND THE 240MM S4 FRICTION DISC, THESE WERE FROM PARTSDEPOT ON EBAY SO GOT THEM CHEAP OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS THE 3B S2 CLUTCH OR EARLY 1Z CLUTCH
clutch bolts and release bearing £29 (genuine) JUST STICK TO THE BEARING AND BOLTS LISTED FOR YOUR CAR THESE WILL WORK
some machining £80, have no idea were i could get this done. i know a machining place but if they would do it i wouldnt know WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED ?? I USED MY LOCAL ENGINEER SHOP AS THEY BUILD THE TECHNO RACE ENGINES AND DO ALL TYPES OF WORK AND THEY DO WORK FOR WORK WHEN NEEDED SO KIND OF GOT IT CHEAP.

as for the valeo conversion kit ive always thought where would you get a clutch kit from if you ever needed to replace it as i was going to do that conversion but for the price and spec of the 1Z/3B combo it seemed the right way to go !!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Avoid the valeo conversion kit, as the parts are specific to valeo, ie you cant then install a normal A4 clutch.

Your options as i see them:
  1. Leave DMF, fit new standard clutch. Probably cost around £80-100ish, relys on the stock flywheel not being fubar.
  2. Buy 1Z flywheel, Early A4 TDI clutch, Probably cost around £150ish, will give you a SMF, but how strong that clutch is i'm not sure as its designed for a 90hp TDI engine. That said, my mums car has this setup on a remapped standard 1.8T FWD and its been ok for a couple of years. I doubt its any stronger than a stock 1.8T clutch though and will slip if you start to hike the power up. Your also unlikely to find any upgrades for it, as they only used it for a short time before swapping to DMF on the TDI's. The audi 80 clutch is designed for a 75hp TDI so is even weaker.
  3. Buy a 1Z flywheel, S2 Clutch, have it machined to fit. I did mine for around £250. Flywheel was 30quid, machining was about £80, clutch was about £100. You get a stronger clutch designed to cope with the factory output of a 2.2 turbo 5pot, and retain factory feel. If you need more, you can buy upgraded clutches for the S2, but at any level will still have a lighter pedal due to the larger 240mm clutch plate.
  4. Buy a special already made 240mm conversion flywheel from someone like TTV racing, and match it up with a 240mm clutch eg from the S4. ECS also do a kit that you'd perhaps be able to import. Probably cost you the best part of £450if you went with the TTV part, i think ECS is even more. But it gets you a nice grippy standard S4 clutch and a solid flywheel in a nice bolt-on package.
  5. Stick with a performance clutch designed for a 1.8T, that uses the stock flywheel, eg southbend or similar. You'll likely need a new flywheel, but it'll have to be either a DMF, or a SMF replica of the DMF. This approach will undoubtedly be expensive.
Also, you need to consider that given the mild slipping you describe, its probably not just worn out, its probably contaminated with oil from a leaking gearbox input seal, or a leaking rear crank seal. Thats certainly what was wrong with mine when it was slipping gradually for almost a year.
 
Ive just remembered that B5QUAT has the ecs flywheel that takes either the S4/RS4 clutch and he actually has the RS4 clutch thats if he hasnt already sold it give him a PM see if he still has it top bloke and may do a deal i certainly wouldnt like to pay the import duties/tax on that !!
 
thats ok. so maybe smf isnt going to be as easy as i thought. im really not bothered about the valeo kits being specific. as ill know thats what is fitted and would also pass that info in in the future,

as far as i know the enigne oil dosnt leak that way, so could be gearbox as it is stiff on a cold mornig(no laughing )

mmm unsure now. maybe i should go uprated clutch on to dmf.
and upgrade later on.

so narrowing this all down what im i best doing in your opionin

uprated clutch for dmf.
valeo smf kit?
ive done crank seal but not gearbox seal, how easy is that to replace? does it involve pressing?
i was planning to swap gearbox oil any how, just makes life easier,
also swapping out clutch slave aswell, but this one works just might aswell do it
do you have part numbers for both those seals as i know your pretty good at having part numbers
 
also i know my rocker cover gasket is weepin, or leaking a bit but not looked extensively so would that be able to enter the clutch area from there?
 
Im sure the input shaft seal is bolted to the box.

personally id ditch the DMF as there expensive then at least if the clutch goes you only have to replace the clutch and not the DMF again if this goes, im sure arkkon runs 20psi of boost on his 1Z clutch and it holds up to his needs.

its whatever you can source to do the job in the quickest and most sensibly priced way that id go for. If your thinking of mapping it then id go with the 1Z/3B combo.
 
i do want to mao but not for a good 2 years, im preety sure its mapped any way, theres no oil leaks from underneth the car.

so will the valeo one do me or am i doing it wrong.

i may not eve have this car in two years as im after a v6 tdi. or 1.9 wjhat ever i find first.

so i guess on the basis im not having a remap in two years would the valeo be my cheapest/best option for now.

also like i said no leaks that ive noticed, no oil spots on the floor, and engine oil level dosnt drop.
 
Personally if you dont no if your going to be keeping the car id just throw a clutch in on the chance that the flywheel is ok, if your going to keep it and map it at some point id do it right first time, try this guy see if he will split the flywheel from the engine it looks to be the right one in the picture,

1994 AUDI 80 B4 2.0 SPORT SE BREAKING - ABK ENGINE | eBay

Il see if i can find the clutch for you !
 
This may do as it lists 240mm but someone will have to check im sure engine code should be ata/agk ??
[FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]
[/FONT]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/genuine-vw-clutch-cover-LT-LT-4X4-240m-m-agx-engine-code-reduced-clear-/290888245939?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D1

[FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]Cant seam to find the friction plate i used and i dont no which S2 3B kit to look for !![/FONT]
 
ok so the lightened fly wheel and kevlar clutch was on offer of £318, so i punted a offer of £250 and he accepted.

so apart from the one person who clearly has had a bad time with them, what are the opinions, and please tell me if your talking on the back of hear say/chinese wispers or if youve actually had a item and if so waht was it and what was the problem
ive been asking them all kinds of questions and they have responded quickly, and even told me the item i was asking about wasnt suitable and showed me a different one, i then asked if there was a heavier duty one and they then directed me to the item below. so far i have no issues, and have read there feedback and seems legit.

heres the item for refrence

AUDI A4 1.8T TURBO B5 FLYWHEEL +CARBON KEVLAR CLUTCH | eBay
 
boost-addict said:
ok so the lightened fly wheel and kevlar clutch was on offer of £318, so i punted a offer of £250 and he accepted.

so apart from the one person who clearly has had a bad time with them, what are the opinions, and please tell me if your talking on the back of hear say/chinese wispers or if youve actually had a item and if so waht was it and what was the problem
ive been asking them all kinds of questions and they have responded quickly, and even told me the item i was asking about wasnt suitable and showed me a different one, i then asked if there was a heavier duty one and they then directed me to the item below. so far i have no issues, and have read there feedback and seems legit.

heres the item for refrence

AUDI A4 1.8T TURBO B5 FLYWHEEL +CARBON KEVLAR CLUTCH | eBay
Click to expand...

do you have the clutch fitted ?? If so hows the pedal feel stock/hard/on off switch ??? How longs it been in any pics off it when you got it ????
 
Personally id stay well clear you may get lucky and the clutch fit but then if two week down the line it starts to slip like some of the rants ive heard your in the boat of paying labour to have it replaced again or even getting a full refund which they might not give due to rants ive read then your back to square one i might be in oldham at weekend/next week so i can take a trip to my scrappers see if they have any 1Z flywheels knocking about as thats probably your best kit for your hard earned, otherwise its TTV racing and S4/RS4 Clutch then things start to add up.
 
I've heard so much bad stuff about them i simply wouldnt bother.

I have already explicitly detailed the options you have above. Please re-read my post number 11.

Valeo SMF is a bad idea, as the parts are all bespoke so your stuffed should you need to change it again.

The ECS and 1Z/3B options leave you using standard clutch parts.
 
I would recommend a Sachs SRE clutch kit and LUK DMF, best kit for the money and it will take all you can throw at it... Single mass kits will kill your gearbox sooner or later- talking from experience !
 
adamss24 said:
I would recommend a Sachs SRE clutch kit and LUK DMF, best kit for the money and it will take all you can throw at it... Single mass kits will kill your gearbox sooner or later- talking from experience !
Click to expand...

im not after a dmf or i would just fit a stage 2/3 clutch kit.

i cant find any sachs sre clutches
 
Last edited:
sorry aragorn i think i missed or forgot i head read your post.


aragorn said:
Buy a 1Z flywheel, S2 Clutch, have it machined to fit. I did mine for around £250. Flywheel was 30quid, machining was about £80, clutch was about £100. You get a stronger clutch designed to cope with the factory output of a 2.2 turbo 5pot, and retain factory feel. If you need more, you can buy upgraded clutches for the S2, but at any level will still have a lighter pedal due to the larger 240mm clutch plate
Click to expand...


1z flywheel? Audi 80 1.9 TDi 1994 B4. 1Z Engine Flywheel. Breaking for Spare Parts. | eBay


s2 clutch Panther Clutch Kit AUDI S2 2.2 Quattro Turbo 90-92 | eBay


so what release bearing would i use, s2 one in the kit or a a4 one?
i have no idea were i could get it machined and what are we talking? drilling holes to accept new pins and bolts?

then new flywheel and clutch bolts, can you buy these seprate, pursume audi/vw dealer will be a bomb?

any thing else i need to worry about? does the starter engage up to the ring on the 1z fly wheel?

is it worth having it lightened? as i pursue i need to find a flywheel specialist.

as for seals, i can only find the rear crank shaft seal

CRANKSHAFT SEAL NEW FOR VW TRANSPORTER 2.4 2.5 POLO PASSAT GOLF CADDY VENTO SEAT | eBay

and not the gearbox seal and guide sleeve. think itll be eaier to buy the complete part as i dont have a press and would rather just unbolt and bolt back on. makes my life easier



also on a note, ill have the car rasier about 2foot off the floor, i cant seem to find a single company that does a transmition jack, i was considering making a platform on my 4ton jack but then it dosnt have caster wheels all round like a trans jack does, any ideas?


cheers
 
Last edited:
Flywheel is right.

Not sure on the clutch, it has to come from a 3B engine and that one doesnt say what its from. Its also some unknown brand. Stick to known companies like sachs. I ended up using a sachs cover plate from Jason at All German, and a friction plate from a B6 S4 V8.

Release bearing is the same across the range.


Bolts arent dear, just get them from a dealer, you need the 1Z ones, rather than the original 1.8T items.


Gearbox input seals needs to come from the dealer. You can fit them with a suitably sized socket pretty easily. Get the crank seal from someone like Jason at All German Parts.


As for single mass flywheel somehow magically killing the gearbox, the Audi 80 (and many other models)used exactly the same 012 box as the A4 uses, and had solid flywheels from the factory, the box will be fine.


The machining i had done at a local engineering shop, the type of place that does rebores and cylinder head skimming. I just took him the flywheel and the cover plate and asked them to make it fit. I wouldnt have the flywheel lightened, the weight is useful for lazy road driving.
 
On a diesel it will kill the gearbox, the SMF makes the box rattle and it's just a matter of time before it breaks, on my b6 1.9 tdi it lasted just 3-4k !
 
right stuck in a bid on that flywheel.


the clutch will be a valeo one, used panther many times before. as for if its a 3b one ill ask but ill take another look around and find a sachs one

yer ive found the correct bolts now, nothing to expencive, am i right saying these bolts are for the clutch to flywheel. or flywheel to crank, think i read there the same for both as the clutch to flywheel need to be shorter as of course its only a 10mm deep hole to
its a valeo, i know this as panther sell valeo, as for if its from a 3b no idea, ill fire him a message, advoid hitting the starter gear.

ok ill order up a gearbox seal from my local dealer. and ill give jason a shout. any idea on costs there?


as for the machining i just remembered i know a guy that skims heads, called formula one, in brands hatch kent.

i belive he has all the kit in house, hes not bad prices, cost £30 to skim a stripped head.
 
Chris: the Audi 80/100 1Z TDI came from the factory with a solid flywheel, and the same 012/01A box that the TQS uses. The 012/A is quite happy with a solid flywheel, and doesnt rattle at all.
 
I reused the clutch and flywheel bolts, but its not advised.

Clutch bolts needed a washer under the head to stop them bottoming out in the flywheel.
 
audi upgrades
ok, so as long as that clutch i linked is a 3b variant im good to go. flywheel is my first buy if i dont win it ill find another but i wont buy the s2 clutch untill such time i have a flywheel in my hands and its not fubar and good

is it mandontry to have it skimmed? i guess it does to widen the face of the area the clutch sits on.

ive messgaed a company in essex, they says £33 to have it skimmed but nothing about machin work bolt wise so fired them a email, also found an old thread a guy had done what im doing so i used the links to show them exactly what i was after, 3 dowls 6 bolt holes 10mm deep, is that correct? also bolts are m8x16 yes?
 
Yeh you'll need it skimmed as the new clutch is bigger.

One thing to watch, is the stock clutch holes are drilled right thru the flywheel, if you try to do that with the S2 cover plate on the 1Z flywheel, you'll drill thru the ring gear and it'll fall off. the holes need to be drilled and tapped blind, to a sufficient depth to engage the cover, but not far enough that it weakens the ring gear. Mine were a bit shallow, hence i ended up with the washers.
 
Byzan Pics said:
I "may" have reused mine but loctited them to be sure
Click to expand...

yeah i reused the ones that came with the flywheel and used loctite, and used new bolts on pressure plate but no washers were needed here and ive done about 15k+ iirc since fitting it !! My gearbox is rattly but think thats the 1/2nd syncro from a bad crunch as a result of my foot slipping of the pedal as is notchy from cold.
 
right ok just been told valeo is one of there suppliers, and will upgrade to a valeo gurenteed as i use them for clutches,

he then said he wouldnt know what engine its for unless i gave him details for a 3b engined s2, the clutch is for a 90/92 s2

so can someone give me some details on what years the 3b engine was made, or even better is this car what i need a clutch from
says its a 3b'd engine

Audi S2 3B Resurection-Back on the road! - Audifans.net
 
90-92 SHOULD be 3B, simple way to check is to get the part number of the part they're going to supply, and look it up on valeos catalogue online.

Oddly, valeo dont list it one on their website, so i doubt its a valeo part.
 
mmm intresting

part number is PCK812NA


but it depends if thats just there part number

looking back on the messages it says valeo is one of there suppiers, so possible it might not be.
 
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