Stage 2+ S3 v RS3 v S4

[elrao]

Recently bought an S3 with stage 1 REVO, so running ~300 bhp. Plan to go to stage 2+ with full milltek, AmD intake and autotech HPFP which is going to cost £2000+ (hoping to pick up an exhaust second hand!). It's an S-Tronic so clutch should be OK, but may also plump for the £300 box remap.

However I've been driving our S4 again today (3.0 S/C version) and while its only 10% more powerful on paper (~330 bhp) the way that power is delivered from a charged 3.0 with the 7 speed S-Tronic makes the S3 feel a bit like a diesel!

Taking the s3 to 2+ levels should mean ~360 HP, but its still only a 2.0 engine underneath. Just not sure about spending the cash on the S3 or holding tight a few months and going for an RS3? Anyone driven both to comment on how a ~360 HP S3 compares with a 340 HP RS3 (or a standard S4/S5)?

Not driven an RS3 yet, but imagine its somewhere in between. Won't match the S4 for low down torque, but once the turbo is fully on boost then is expect it would be kicking out a bit more.

 

[Tay]

I wish I knew the answer to this for you, but I'd like to know myself too as I'm considering trading the S3 in against an S4.

Have you considered mapping the S4 instead? I saw a Chris Harris video where a Revo Stage 2 S4 matched a brand new RS4 almost exactly.

 

[elrao]

S4 (Avant) is our 'family car' - wife drives it mostly, so its stock. Had it since new and didn't want to mess with warranty as all maps until recently were ECU out jobs.

Keeps her insurance straight fwd too as its not modified.

If it were mine and she drove something else then it would be milltek'd and mapped!

 

[S3Alex]

Recently bought an S3 with stage 1 REVO, so running ~300 bhp. Plan to go to stage 2+ with full milltek, AmD intake and autotech HPFP which is going to cost £2000+ (hoping to pick up an exhaust second hand!). It's an S-Tronic so clutch should be OK, but may also plump for the £300 box remap.

However I've been driving our S4 again today (3.0 S/C version) and while its only 10% more powerful on paper (~330 bhp) the way that power is delivered from a charged 3.0 with the 7 speed S-Tronic makes the S3 feel a bit like a diesel!

Taking the s3 to 2+ levels should mean ~360 HP, but its still only a 2.0 engine underneath. Just not sure about spending the cash on the S3 or holding tight a few months and going for an RS3? Anyone driven both to comment on how a ~360 HP S3 compares with a 340 HP RS3 (or a standard S4/S5)?

Not driven an RS3 yet, but imagine its somewhere in between. Won't match the S4 for low down torque, but once the turbo is fully on boost then is expect it would be kicking out a bit more.

It's all going to come down to throttle response,torque,and power/weight ratio.

A Stg2+ S3 at 360bhp has about 240bhp/tonne.

An RS4 comes in at about 240bhp/tonne also,and a stock RS3 would be around 210bhp/tonne.

In short,there won't be a whole lot in it.

 

[elrao]

It's more the throttle response and torque curve I'm interested in. The S4 is very smooth, would imagine a stage 2+ S3 is going to have a hell of a torque kick once the turbo comes on boost. RS3 - somewhere in the middle!

 

[S3Alex]

It's more the throttle response and torque curve I'm interested in. The S4 is very smooth, would imagine a stage 2+ S3 is going to have a hell of a torque kick once the turbo comes on boost. RS3 - somewhere in the middle!

They all will have a different delivery......a Stg2+ S3 is pretty tractable,and drives well,but there is a definite step when it comes onto full boost,although that can be tailored with the software.

I still think that all things considered,it would be a close run.

 

[R34nel]

my personal opinion of stage 2+ is that because there's more boost the car now feels dead off boost, this wasnt pronounced in stock form but there's a pretty huge difference in on boost power with 2+

does anyone else with revo2+ hate the throttle map? It feels stock until you get to about 80-90% throttle then bang - full boost, should I be looking to try the linear throttle map instead? sorry for the mini-hijack there

 

[elrao]

That's partly my worry. Off boost its just a 2.0...with compression set for a turbo.

S4 is always going to be a 3.0 with a charger, with a very linear power delivery. Less fun - but more pleasurable for day to day

 

[S3Alex]

That's partly my worry. Off boost its just a 2.0...with compression set for a turbo.

S4 is always going to be a 3.0 with a charger, with a very linear power delivery. Less fun - but more pleasurable for day to day

CR on an S3 is quite high...about 10:1 or thereabouts,so off boost response isnt bad.

One of my old Cosworths was around 8:1.

 

[R34nel]

Maybe my post came across wrong, it isn't terribly slow an unresponsive off boost (certainly not fast though) but the power on boost gives that illusion of it being slow

 

[DJ-S3]

my personal opinion of stage 2+ is that because there's more boost the car now feels dead off boost, this wasnt pronounced in stock form but there's a pretty huge difference in on boost power with 2+

does anyone else with revo2+ hate the throttle map? It feels stock until you get to about 80-90% throttle then bang - full boost, should I be looking to try the linear throttle map instead? sorry for the mini-hijack there

I have Revo stage 2+ and my car feels fine. Although the only time I don't have boost is when I'm setting off. But that doesn't last long as I get to 2000rpm pretty quick and the turbo starts to slowly come in and at 3000rpm it's just crazy! Easy thing to do is keep it above 2500rpm.

 

[R34nel]

What I Meant was that at any revs the throttle isn't progressive, if you steadily press down the throttle whilst accelerating you can feel the boost kick you up the **** when the pedal is almost fully down, so when the pedal is pressed less than let's say 80% the car feels like it has stock power, press that last bit and it feels like someone has shunted me

I was under the impression that was why revo released a linear throttle map so the pedal is progressive, infact you may have this map?

 

[DJ-S3]

I definitely don't have the linear one. I can assure you that. Hahaha

 

[poli84]

I have a Revo 2+ and I've run both the standard and linear maps.
I started my 2+ journey with the linear and didn't like it at all before switching to the regular map.

The reasons for my switch to the regular map seem to be the complete opposite of what you are saying.
With the linear map, it was too linear and felt that i didn't have power until my foot was buried in the carpet (at 100% throttle).

The way an electronic throttle is designed to work is that you can obtain 100% throttle when you are only depressing the accelerator at say 70% thus, the car is moving along at a faster speed with less throttle depression.

If you feel that you don't get full throttle unless you have depressed your accelerator to 80%, then I don't believe the linear throttle is what you are after because at 80% depression, you will only be getting 80% throttle.

(Sorry for thread hijack, just answering question above).

 

[elrao]

All useful info!

 

[R34nel]

I have a Revo 2+ and I've run both the standard and linear maps.
I started my 2+ journey with the linear and didn't like it at all before switching to the regular map.

The reasons for my switch to the regular map seem to be the complete opposite of what you are saying.
With the linear map, it was too linear and felt that i didn't have power until my foot was buried in the carpet (at 100% throttle).

The way an electronic throttle is designed to work is that you can obtain 100% throttle when you are only depressing the accelerator at say 70% thus, the car is moving along at a faster speed with less throttle depression.

If you feel that you don't get full throttle unless you have depressed your accelerator to 80%, then I don't believe the linear throttle is what you are after because at 80% depression, you will only be getting 80% throttle.

(Sorry for thread hijack, just answering question above).

I'm not sure which I have then as it feels as though not much happens unless I floor it, I find if makes the car feel really heavy and sluggish unless I plant it then it flies, I'd prefer to use whichever map requires less throttle input, could you describe to me how your throttle feels with the non linear map?

 

[gilberto]

S4 (Avant) is our 'family car' - wife drives it mostly, so its stock. Had it since new and didn't want to mess with warranty as all maps until recently were ECU out jobs.

Keeps her insurance straight fwd too as its not modified.

If it were mine and she drove something else then it would be milltek'd and mapped!

Whats the Stage 1 bhp/tonne ratio?

Cheers

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

The RS3 will feel the torquiest/most tractable out of all three. When the boost is increased after the HPFP mods etc on the S3, that will feel the quickest once on song, but there is a noticeable difference when coming on boost.

Rick

 

[gilberto]

Whats the Stage 1 bhp/tonne ratio?

Cheers

Whats the difference between Stage 2 and Stage 2+?

 

[S3Alex]

Whats the Stage 1 bhp/tonne ratio?

Cheers

Approx 200bhp/tonne.

 

[S3Alex]

Whats the difference between Stage 2 and Stage 2+?

Stg 2 is around 330bhp and uses the stock HPFP.

Stg 2+ is around 360-370bhp and needs all of the Stg2 mods( CAI and exhaust) plus an uprated HPFP.

 

[gilberto]

Stg 2 is around 330bhp and uses the stock HPFP.

Stg 2+ is around 360-370bhp and needs all of the Stg2 mods( CAI and exhaust) plus an uprated HPFP.

Cheers for the info, what supporting mods do you need for Stage 2 (with Revo)?

 

[S3Alex]

Cheers for the info, what supporting mods do you need for Stage 2 (with Revo)?

You should have the full turbo back exhaust and a CAI,both are required to get the best out of the mods,and will increase power and torque over what you'd get without them.


At Stg2 or above,you should also be thinking of uprating the stock wobbly suspension with stiffer ARBs,and better dampers.