Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Lewis583 said:
You sticking with the same disc size or going mahoosive?
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I can answer that one with a picture I think :)







Forge 330x32mm, 2 piece, curved vane discs, and 6 pot Forge alloy calipers, and some orange hoses thrown in for good measure!

I weighed up my options after donington, and this just made sense. I'd spend a fortune on upgrading my LCR brakes to 2 piece, and this way I get a bigger caliper and pad area also, and a thicker disc for a similar outlay by the time I've sold my current brakes.

I need to say a Massive thanks to Jamie at Forge for sorting me out with these, very friendly and helpful whilst we were chatting about requirements and kept in contact whilst I was waiting for them to be made. Given the price of a new set of Brembo Jnr GT's, they're also incredibly well priced given the huge performance potential.

they're not currently advertised for sale on the forge website for the mk4, but can be made special order, there are a few sets floating around currently on various high powered cars, and now a set will be installed on my humble little A3 also :)

If anyone is tempted by these I'd advise e-mailing Jamie at forge, i would add his e-mail here, but my hotmail account is on the blink at the mo so I can't find it!

More to come and some more pictures tomorrow :)
 
audi upgrades
They look epic Prawn. Really looking forward to some updates bud. :salute:
 
Haha i know, ive been having blonde moments all week matey.
 
Rushed for time, off out to meet mum and dad for a meal, but for now:

That'll do pig, that'll do....





Amazing to fit, perfect fit, no issues or missalignment what so ever, bled up really easily, and pedal feels great.

Not even had time to test drive it yet, but I've got loads more pics I'll add tomorrow after a trip to Thruxton to watch the BTCC :)
 
Those look absolutely terrible, you should take them off and let me take them off your hands :laugh:
 
i have just read the entire thread (over a several days) and its a great thread and you have built a very capable car.

I thought id start off by saying i had a mk2 golf 1.8t 20v - BAM engine, qpeng management and it had those 2 piece discs you just bought, they are good so you wont have an issues with those.

Its always funny to read about the FWD/Haldex arguments, and i notice somebody said it would be a good comparison to see an similarly stripped out S3 - thats my plan, its obviously going to be a few years in development behind yours so don't expect too much too soon.

On that note, i assume any decent looking early S3 is a good base to start from?

Id hope for Bill at B5 to do some of the future work required, i once visited his place as i was dropping a haldex diff off to one of his customers (i break 4motions) at the time i had my mk2 golf, so we were chatting about it for a while - doubt very much he will remember though.

i should be sticking around and soaking up the tips for my new toy -
 
Hi mate, those look ready nice, the discs seem to be flat ie offset and in the pics the calipers seem to be sticking out way past the hub face. Is that going to be an issue with rims clearing.
 
Looking good! Unsprung weight loss for the win.

Whats the weight of the disc and caliper? Also the piston diameters would be nice to know..
 
jasongtr said:
On that note, i assume any decent looking early S3 is a good base to start from?

Id hope for Bill at B5 to do some of the future work required, i once visited his place as i was dropping a haldex diff off to one of his customers (i break 4motions) at the time i had my mk2 golf, so we were chatting about it for a while - doubt very much he will remember though.
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Nice to have you on the forum mate, it's always good to see more similar projects starting up! I've been wanting someone to go the whole hog with an S3 for years! There are lots of lovely cars on here, but none have yet gone down the full on track car route yet (none that are finished!) so it'll be great to see how you get on.

moredoor said:
Hi mate, those look ready nice, the discs seem to be flat ie offset and in the pics the calipers seem to be sticking out way past the hub face. Is that going to be an issue with rims clearing.
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They're a fairly thick disc at 32mm, and the bells are fairly thick and do have some set back. Brake clearance isn't an issue with my Super T's, but I'll have a test with with the Rotas, S3 rims, and TT comps at some point soon to make sure I don't get any issues.

BuuBBa said:
Looking good! Unsprung weight loss for the win.

Whats the weight of the disc and caliper? Also the piston diameters would be nice to know..
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I'm afraid I don't know the exact weight of the caliper and disc, in my haste to get them on I didn't weigh them!

Piston sizes are 30, 36.5, and 38.5mm :)

Just been out this morning to bed them in and they're feeling pretty damn strong, stopping power feels very good, and extremely positivel. the yellow pads are less grabby than other pads I've used, but when you give them a press it really hauls up very well indeed.

Annoyingly, my EZ bleed was leaking like hell yesterday, so by the time I finished bleeidng the brakes up the tyre was down to 6psi so it was moving pretty slowly. The pedal feel is a little long currently, but the top feels like air, so I'll find a tyre with some more air in and go and bleed them again now :)

Initial impressions: very impressed.
 
everyone who's not tried the brembo 6 pots said:
ZOMG your pedal travel must be really long
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That's interesting on the piston sizes. They're bigger pistons than an 18z caliper ;) Pedal feel on mine is great but as above, everyone tells me it's terrible...

Brembo 6 pot 17Z - pistons 34/36/38 = 3060mm2
Brembo 6 pot 18Z - pistons 30/34/38 = 2750mm2
Brembo 6 pot 19Z - pistons 32/36/38 = 2956mm2
 
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chatting to tuffty earlier and he said the pedal on hollies TT is quite nice and high still, so I'm very sure it's down to bleeding.

Just bled all 4 corners thoroughly, and moved my airfilter because I wanted something else to do.

Eating now, then test drive time.
 
It totally is about the bleeding. Everyone keeps banging on about how **** the pedal travel is on the 6 pots but in reality those people have either never fitted them or should stay away from brakes if they can't bleed them properly. A guy once told me you only have to bleed one side of the 6 pots! Probably why he reckons they have **** travel!

If your pedal is anything like mine it'll feel better than OEM with marginally more travel but much more notice before putting you through the windscreen. I really like the pedal travel on the 6 pots. I imagine you might have a touch more travel though.
 
OK, so potentially rookie error on my part here.....

My driveway is on a fairly steep downhill slope. This is where I bled the brakes and master cylinder.

Could I be right in thinking, that any air pocket trapped in the master cylinder, could well be sitting at the back (highest point due to down hill slope) of the cylinder and when I'm bleeding it's not getting pushed out at all?
 
Love this thread. Hoping to put together something similar myself. One thing though, I can't seem to view any photos of the car either on my phone or laptop :(
 
Right, I decided I don't want to keep messing around with it, so I've just bought a new OE master cylinder. Mine was £20 used off ebay last year when I snapped a nipple off the other, so of completely unknown origin. Brakes are kind of important, so I'm going for the 'do it once' approach.

Going to attempt the hateful job of fitting it this evening.
 
junkyardA3 said:
Love this thread. Hoping to put together something similar myself. One thing though, I can't seem to view any photos of the car either on my phone or laptop :(
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Not sure why that would be :( A few images on the first few pages seem to have died, but apart from that I think they're all still there.

Anyone else have issues viewing pictures?
 
Prawn said:
Not sure why that would be :( A few images on the first few pages seem to have died, but apart from that I think they're all still there.

Anyone else have issues viewing pictures?
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i wondered why none of the writing makes sense.... There is pictures????


lol just kidding, yeah can see it fine mate. F*** changing master cylinder as an evening job CBA nick lol, you not bin at work all day...?

Sean
 
When i changed my Master cylinder it became a right pain to bleed.... i found cycling the ABS pump with Vag-Com improved things greatly .... bleeding A3 brakes properly may be one of those only things where it's worth taking it to the stealers to get it hooked up to one of their machines
 
666markyboy said:
When i changed my Master cylinder it became a right pain to bleed.... i found cycling the ABS pump with Vag-Com improved things greatly .... bleeding A3 brakes properly may be one of those only things where it's worth taking it to the stealers to get it hooked up to one of their machines
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Neeeeever going to happen haha :p
 
16Klappe said:
Neeeeever going to happen haha :p
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^^^ this. Nobody works on my car, apart from me, or, if I can't do it, mates who don't ask for payment :laugh:

Had a good long chat with Dad today, as well as several phone calls with various brake people.

The master cylinder is a minimum of 13 years old, possibly as much as 16, and of totally unknown origin, so the new master cylinder will go on this weekend.

Also, in for a penny, in for a pound and all that, if we're doing this, we've decided we're just going to go all out and put the pads in it that we've always wanted for years: Pagid RS29.

We're at Spa in October, running on WTCC slicks, and the car needs to be in top shape.
 
666markyboy said:
When i changed my Master cylinder it became a right pain to bleed.... i found cycling the ABS pump with Vag-Com improved things greatly .... bleeding A3 brakes properly may be one of those only things where it's worth taking it to the stealers to get it hooked up to one of their machines
Click to expand...

The machines the dealers use aren't all that. VCDS can cycle the ABS pump and the machine they use to bleed brakes is just a really expensive/fancy easy-bleed.

Spa is definitely on my trackday list at some point in the future. I actually think I would rather do Spa than the 'Ring.
 
I'm just saying that's all..... but when i did mine , if you get air in that ABS unit it can be a right mare... i tried pressure bleeding , gravity bleeding the old fashioned 2 man method of bleeding and even rigged up a setup to suction bleed and pull the fluid through the calipers..... and the all write ups i trawled through seemed to come to same conclusion that you couldn't beat the factory way .... but like you i won't let anybody work on my car, I'm an Aircraft fitter by trade with 30 years experience and currently working on Eurofighter Typhoons so i know my around hydraulic systems and in the end i just had to settle for a soft pedal, it did get better in time though but I've never been totally happy with it
 
^^^^^ This is so similar to my experiences with my Mk4 Golf. Had to change the M/C and ran the Easy Bleed out of fluid for justs a split second and wham crap brakes and days of bleeding, gravity, normal Vag-Com just as above and my pedal got a bit better in use but I was never 100% happy, ooh and I forgot to add, the closest I have come to an Aircraft fitter is my current car's last owner was one, me I am a self taught DIY mechanic, qualified in naff all, so even more interesting we had the same experiences lol.
Oops forgot the actual advice bit, firstly I hope you don't have air in the ABS but if you do Vag-com probably won't cure it first time so run it a few times, ie not just one full cycle which I think is about 12 repititions anyway, so expect to do maybe 5/6 of them, it's very repeptitive but probably the best chance you have of improving it, good luck!
 
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Wee Prawn phoned EBC brakes today to see if they could shed any light on why the brakes faded when they got hot after only minimal use. Not track day hot, just some lively road use. LOVE the answer, "it's probably because you are not using the same pads on the rear.

Yeah and i'm the Pope.

Bless you salesman and all the people who travel in your empty head.
 
I don't know how people struggle so badly to bleed brakes. I left my old calipers connected right up until the last moment after fitting the new ones, swapped the lines over mega quick and then bled each caliper (furthest away/passenger first), outer nipple first (not sure if those 6 pots have 2 nipples). I did have a slightly ropey pedal at first but put it down to fresh discs not being bed in. It's spot on now. Key is don't let the reservoir get low. I even bled with the pedal which is a cardinal sin on here!

Perhaps you have air in the ABS pump as said or the MC is stuffed like you say?
 
I've never had issues before Sam. This is a first!

whats the correct procedure, inner or outer nipple first? I've been doing the inner one first then outer.

Not cycled abs pump yet, tried to but vagcom kept reverting back to shareware version for some reason. Ill see if I can figure that out this weekend.

I don't believe for a minute the issue is related to rear pad choice though.


Im not in too much of a hurry to resolve it, I plan to do it once now and do it right.

Got a few more pad enquiries to make today after some interesting conversations last night. So we'll see what's what later on :)
 
Now I think about it I done the inner then outer too. It goes against the "furthest away from the MC first" principle though I guess.

I must say I'm not looking forward to the next time I do mine. Sounds like a bit of a lottery heh. Time for an MC lottery avatar.

Hope you get it sorted in good time.
 
if it helps prawn i bled my 6 pots outer nipple first and pedal travel is spot on! exactly the same as stock but with lots more bite (im running 17z's) also good choice with rs29's, the most incredible pad ive run in 6 pots :)
 
Pop over to the workshop on Saturday if you get really stuck mate.
 
Cheers everyone for help and suggestions :)
Andrew: yes it's the d50 pad shape. Apparently very common.

Future: that's good to hear man, I had some rs19 on my 996 brakes a few years back and they were insane.

Itll either be rs29 or something a little more unusual depending on a phone call with mr Brown later on :)
 
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