high cf in block 20 vcds

[big nog]

driving my s3 8l today and noticed it was stuttering on wot, did a bit of logging and noticed fairly high cf in block 20 vcds, what exactly does this mean? thanks in advance
only fault code i have is 2nd lambda as i know it has a broken heater sensor

 

[<tuffty/>]

depends on the context... and also what you think is 'high'... timing pull can be the result of a few things... timing pull is relatively normal... can be made worse due to engine temp, air temp, fuel quality etc...

Would need to log stuff under WOT etc to get an idea of whats going on...

<tuffty/>

 

[big nog]

well it was going upto around 5 to 6's. all others were on 0.0.
which blocks would be best to log for you to av a look at?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Depends on if you have a facelift or prefacelift S3...

If facelift then 002, 020 and 115 in the first instance...

Is the car mapped etc? some idea of mods would be useful

<tuffty/>

 

[big nog]

yes its mapped mate, facelift too.
agu head w/transition gasket
cai
green cotton panel
silicone tip as well as more silicone under hood
fmic
oil catch can with deleted pcv
3" downpipe and decat
relentless v3 mani
forge 007p dv
stock k04
custom map by a local garage gr performance

 

[big nog]

Thursday	7	March	2013	16:13:46
8N0 906 018 J	1.8L R4/5VT 0004
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'115
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME
Marker	STAMP	/min	%	ms	g/s	STAMP	CF	CF	CF	CF	STAMP	/min	%	mbar	mbar
	0	720	18.8	2.04	2.81	0.51	6	0	0	0	0.99	1360	65.4	980	1010
	1.41	1280	63.9	6.12	16.92	1.92	6	0	0	0	2.32	1840	72.9	1180	1080
	2.72	2320	80.5	7.48	37.86	3.12	5.3	0	0	0	3.52	2280	16.5	980	1130
	3.92	1880	78.9	7.48	28.61	4.34	6	0	0	0	4.82	2440	103.8	1680	1290
	5.23	2520	30.8	2.04	23.08	5.63	0	0	0	0	6.14	1760	36.8	980	1020
	6.54	1800	75.9	7.48	29.86	6.94	5.3	0	0	0	7.34	2040	93.2	1880	1190
	7.74	2160	100.8	9.18	43.69	8.14	3	0	0	0	8.56	2440	122.6	2240	1480
	8.96	2600	134.6	11.9	72.89	9.36	1.5	0	0	0	9.85	3040	182	2190	2200
	10.25	3080	191.7	21.76	129.64	10.67	0	0	0	3	11.17	3640	191.7	2100	2530
	11.57	3800	191.7	18.36	142.89	11.97	0	0	0	5.3	12.38	4120	183.5	2080	2450
	12.78	4320	183.5	16.32	148.19	13.18	0	0	0	4.5	13.58	4720	182.7	2020	2470
	13.98	4880	184.2	15.64	175.22	14.38	0	0	0	4.5	14.78	5240	183.5	2050	2470
	15.2	5400	175.9	15.64	187.94	15.6	0	0	0	3	16	5720	171.4	2080	2440
	16.41	5880	168.4	19.72	194.56	16.81	0	0	0	2.3	17.31	6200	160.9	2020	2350
	17.71	6360	158.6	21.76	193.64	18.11	0	0	0	1.5	18.53	6600	156.4	2010	2320
	19.02	6280	25.6	3.06	33.89	19.42	0	0	0	0	19.92	5120	191.7	1920	2350
	20.32	5040	14.3	2.38	21.33	20.72	0	0	0	0	21.12	4600	12.8	980	1120
	21.53	4400	12	0	8.08	21.93	0	0	0	0	22.43	3920	11.3	980	1030
	22.83	3760	11.3	0	8.17	23.23	0	0	0	0	23.72	3320	12	980	1020
	24.14	3120	12	0	7.33	24.54	0	0	0	0	25.05	3000	12	980	1020
	25.55	3000	64.7	6.8	41.56	25.95	0	0	0	0	26.35	3000	85.7	1350	1110
	26.76	3040	118.8	10.88	78.58	27.16	5.3	0	0	0	27.56	3240	178.2	2150	2150
	27.96	3360	191.7	18.02	132.17	28.36	3.8	0	0	3	28.88	3680	191.7	2120	2400
	29.37	3880	191.7	17.34	154.31	29.77	3	0	0	3	30.17	4160	191.7	2100	2440
	30.57	4200	166.9	13.6	153.94	30.99	0	0	0	0	31.48	4080	12.8	980	1150
	31.88	3960	12	0	10.14	32.28	0	0	0	0	32.68	3680	11.3	980	1040
	33.1	3520	11.3	0	7.83	33.5	0	0	0	0	33.9	3280	12	980	1030
	34.39	3080	12	0	7.19	34.79	0	0	0	0	35.19	2760	11.3	980	1020
	35.61	2600	11.3	0	5.92	36.11	0	0	0	0	36.51	2280	12	980	1020
	36.92	2160	11.3	0	5	37.32	0	0	0	0	37.82	1880	11.3	980	1020
	38.22	1480	11.3	0	3.33	38.62	0	0	0	0	39.03	2040	11.3	980	1010
	39.51	1720	12	0	4.08	39.93	0	0	0	0	40.43	1040	16.5	980	1010
	40.83	960	14.3	1.7	2.89	41.23	0	0	0	0	41.63	800	15.8	980	1010
	42.04	760	15.8	2.04	2.53	42.54	0	0	0	0	42.95	760	15.8	980	1010
	43.35	1080	21.1	2.72	5.61	43.85	6	0	0	0	44.25	1400	66.2	1020	1000
	44.66	1760	65.4	6.12	23	45.14	6	0	0	0	45.56	1840	14.3	980	1070
	45.96	1520	72.9	7.14	22.44	46.38	6	0	0	0	46.87	1960	88	1120	1170
	47.26	2200	75.9	6.8	29.67	47.67	0	0	0	0	48.07	2400	36.8	980	1120
	48.49	2440	30.1	3.06	11.67	48.98	0	0	0	0	49.38	2480	27.8	980	1030
	49.78	2440	26.3	2.38	11.75	50.18	0	0	0	0	50.6	2480	27.8	980	1020
	51	2480	30.8	3.06	14.94	51.5	0	0	0	0	51.99	2520	30.8	980	1030
	52.41	2520	30.8	3.06	15.36	52.81	0	0	0	0	53.21	2560	27.8	980	1030
	53.61	2560	28.6	2.72	14.06	54.12	0	0	0	0	54.61	2440	20.3	980	1020
	55.01	2400	21.1	2.04	9.39	55.41	0	0	0	0	55.81	2400	36.1	980	1010
	56.23	2440	36.1	3.4	16.94	56.63	0	0	0	0	57.13	2360	21.8	980	1050
	57.62	1880	15.8	1.7	5.5	58.04	6	0	0	0	58.53	1760	69.9	980	1090
	59.05	1840	56.4	5.44	20.44	59.54	5.3	0	0	0	59.94	2000	62.4	980	1150
	60.45	2120	80.5	7.48	35.97	60.95	3	0	0	0	61.35	2400	118	2220	1440
	61.75	2520	134.6	13.94	69.89	62.17	1.5	0	0	3	62.66	2960	184.2	2180	2280
	63.06	2960	179.7	20.06	106.44	63.57	1.5	0	0	6	64.07	3560	172.9	2140	2490
	64.47	3640	165.4	19.38	139.11	64.87	0	0	0	3.8	65.27	4000	166.9	2120	2390
	65.69	4200	169.2	14.96	134.44	66.08	0	0	0	2.3	66.48	4600	184.2	2070	2440
	66.88	4560	181.2	17.68	152.22	67.28	0	0	0	0.8	67.8	4920	181.2	2040	2480
	68.2	5080	179.7	17.34	173.58	68.61	0	0	0	0	69.09	5480	170.7	2060	2420
	69.51	5640	170.7	22.44	191.14	69.91	0	0	0	0	70.4	5200	12.8	980	1230
	70.8	4880	12.8	2.38	10.58	71.2	0	0	0	0	71.62	3960	12.8	980	1060
	72.12	3000	12	2.38	6.75	72.5	0	0	0	0	72.92	2720	9.8	980	1030
	73.41	3240	12	0	7.81	73.83	0	0	0	0	74.23	3200	36.8	980	1020
	74.63	3200	33.1	2.72	14.86	75.03	0	0	0	0	75.43	3160	13.5	980	1050
	75.83	3080	13.5	0	6.67	76.24	0	0	0	0	76.74	2640	12	980	1020
	77.25	2600	11.3	0	5.83	77.75	0	0	0	0	78.15	2480	11.3	980	1020
	78.64	2320	12	0	5.28	79.06	0	0	0	0	79.46	2240	28.6	1120	970
	79.86	2280	79.7	7.48	38.44	80.26	0	0	0	0	80.66	2560	119.5	2190	1450
	81.06	2720	142.9	12.92	83.61	81.47	0	0	0	0	81.87	3160	191.7	2150	2500
	82.27	3200	176.7	16.32	100.86	82.77	0	0	0	0	83.19	3640	191.7	2130	2520
	83.68	3920	191.7	17.68	153.14	84.08	0	3	0	3	84.48	4320	188	2090	2450
	84.88	4560	188.7	15.98	162.69	85.3	0	3	0	3	85.7	4880	182	2040	2470
	86.19	5120	181.2	15.98	177.92	86.61	0	1.5	0	1.5	86.99	5560	172.2	2060	2430
	87.41	5760	170.7	23.8	192.08	87.92	0	1.5	0	0	88.42	6240	159.4	2010	2360
	88.82	6400	154.9	19.72	194.89	89.31	0	0	0	0	89.71	5880	12.8	980	1160
	90.11	5560	12.8	2.38	12.39	90.53	0	0	0	0	90.93	4840	12	980	1060
	91.33	4080	11.3	0	9.19	91.82	0	0	0	0	92.22	3280	12	980	1040
	92.62	3120	12	0	7.31	93.02	0	0	0	0	93.44	2840	12	980	1020
	93.84	2720	11.3	0	6.08	94.24	0	0	0	0	94.64	2520	11.3	980	1020
	95.04	2440	11.3	0	5.53	95.46	0	0	0	0	95.94	2360	11.3	980	1020

 

[big nog]

anyone?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Not got time to absorb it atm mate sorry... work intrudes... will have a look when I get home later

<tuffty/>

 

[big nog]

Not got time to absorb it atm mate sorry... work intrudes... will have a look when I get home later

<tuffty/>

ok thanks

 

[<tuffty/>]

what gear where these done in? ideally just need the data from one clean run in third gear (foot to the floor) from 2k rpm to redline...

<tuffty/>

 

[beachbuggy]

Can't tell but you've either got an over boost or under boost going on. Actual v requested ain't meeting.

as the high cf's are on 1 cylinder I'd suggest maybe a dirty injector, bad plug . You do need a 2k- redline 3rd gear pull to see better.

 

[big nog]

these are done in third gear only, wot
just had new set of plugs put in an also injectors ultrasoniced

 

[Prawn]

initial impressions are that for your spec you're making pretty terrible power, ~194 g/s implies somewhere around 245bhp, other guys with your spec are seeing 220g/s+ often.

Also, The labelling doesn't show which way round block 115 is, which column is specified and which is actual? from other logs the first column is usually specified, and if that's the case than your actual seems to be way above specified everywhere, which is most odd.

If it's the other way round, then your boost isn't meeting requested by quite some way, which also indicates an issue.

CF's don't seem to be isolated to just the one cylinder, but do seem to only occur on one cylinder at any one event.

Most odd.

 

[big nog]

could it be due to the mapping? im booked in at rtech on the 30th, i just wanted to try clear issues before i went.
115 block is specified 3rd column, actual 4th
ive also done the rev to 3000rpm test while staionary and got 10.47g/s, if this helps

 

[big nog]

Anyone??

 

[Broken Byzan]

You need a proper log, what you have doesn't provide clear enough info to see when and where it pulls the max timing. If it's pulling timing at 3 k odd, there's a fair chance at the redline it's also pulling timing.

Do a log as stated in 3rd from 2 k ish to redline @wot and post it here, the 3k test?? Never heard of that

 

[Prawn]

I don't know if there's any truth in it mark, but I've also heard that of you hold the revs stationary at 3k you should see 10gs.

I have no idea what it's for / about but I have heard it

 

[big nog]

do you want me to post a log all way to redline tomorrow? i took it fairly close today, didnt think needed to go all way, just as far as is safe. any specific blocks to log?
the logs i did were also WOT

 

[big nog]

Thursday

7

March

2013

16:13:46

8N0 906 018 J

1.8L R4/5VT 0004

Group A:

'002

Group B:

'020

Group C:

'115

RPM

Load

Inj. On Time

Mass Flow

Idle Stabilization

Idle Stabilization

Idle Stabilization

Idle Stabilization

RPM

Load

Absolute Pres.

Absolute Pres.

	79.86	2280	79.7	7.48	38.44	80.26	0	0	0	0	80.66	2560	119.5	2190	1450
	81.06	2720	142.9	12.92	83.61	81.47	0	0	0	0	81.87	3160	191.7	2150	2500
	82.27	3200	176.7	16.32	100.86	82.77	0	0	0	0	83.19	3640	191.7	2130	2520
	83.68	3920	191.7	17.68	153.14	84.08	0	3	0	3	84.48	4320	188	2090	2450
	84.88	4560	188.7	15.98	162.69	85.3	0	3	0	3	85.7	4880	182	2040	2470
	86.19	5120	181.2	15.98	177.92	86.61	0	1.5	0	1.5	86.99	5560	172.2	2060	2430
	87.41	5760	170.7	23.8	192.08	87.92	0	1.5	0	0	88.42	6240	159.4	2010	2360
	88.82	6400	154.9	19.72	194.89	89.31	0	0	0	0	89.71	5880	12.8	980	1160

is this one not suitable?

 

[Broken Byzan]

Ahh ok, I couldn't see that due to all the jumbled and extended log, my bad

TBH it's pulled hardly any timing, nothing i'd be worried about. I assume she is running on super unleaded or vpower?

 

[big nog]

vpower only mate, it just feels very lumpy and stuttery

 

[beachbuggy]

vpower only mate, it just feels very lumpy and stuttery

Well it's over boosting the requested.. Possibly if you log the throttle plate you'll see it closing rather than being 100% through the pull.

What remap is it.. If it's lumpy and stuttery then i'd suggest from those logs that it's possibly getting torque intervention kicking in..

As said cf's are good...
can you log
031

011
118
120

 

[big nog]

Yes, ill do a few more logs on Saturday, could all this be solved by gettin it remapped by rtech? Cos its booked there on 30th
Remap is from grperformance, was done by previous owner.

 

[beachbuggy]

Yes, ill do a few more logs on Saturday, could all this be solved by gettin it remapped by rtech? Cos its booked there on 30th

Yes . Assuming there aren't any underlying hardware issues. You might find its just a dodgy maf, air leak etc etc

 

[big nog]

I've tried it with maf disconnected and it runs like a sack. Ill do a few more logs n post them up, to see what you guys think. Hopefully it'll be an easy fix

 

[badger5]

over boosting a lot.. beyond what maps asking for.
so many folks claim custom mapping, does'nt make it Good mapping however, Nor Custom..

stutter is likely ign related, coil packs usual suspects and worn big gap plugs...
misfire counter on block 15 may show something occuring
If wideband, then 031 block and 001 will show fueling request and actual... etc

 

[badger5]

Yes, ill do a few more logs on Saturday, could all this be solved by gettin it remapped by rtech? Cos its booked there on 30th
Remap is from grperformance, was done by previous owner.

Hardware related issue will not be fixed from a remap no matter who does it...

Air leaks, smoke test it to be sure...
log the fueling if its a wideband car, and see if its keeping up with fuel demands...

 

[big nog]

Friday

8

March

2013

17:41:55

8N0 906 018 J

1.8L R4/5VT 0004

Group A:

'011

Group B:

'118

Group C:

'120

RPM

Temperature

Temperature

Ign. Timing

RPM

Temperature

Load

Absolute Pres.

RPM

Torque

Torque

TIME

TIME

TIME

Marker

STAMP

/min

°C

°C

°BTDC

STAMP

/min

°C

%

mbar

STAMP

/min

Nm

Nm

132.06	2040	94	19	8.3	132.46	2080	19	94.5	990	131.64	2040	436.6	0	ASR OFF
133.27	2240	94	18	18.8	133.75	2400	17	94.5	1370	132.86	2120	436.6	141.2	ASR OFF
134.57	2760	94	15	11.3	134.97	2960	15	80.8	2090	134.17	2560	436.6	231.1	ASR OFF
135.88	3560	93	15	8.3	136.28	3800	15	72.2	2440	135.38	3200	436.6	370.2	ASR OFF
137.19	4400	93	15	13.5	137.59	4600	17	72.2	2380	136.79	4160	436.6	355.2	ASR OFF
138.39	5000	93	19	7.5	138.9	5240	21	72.2	2440	137.99	4840	436.6	331.7	ASR OFF
139.7	5600	93	22	11.3	140.1	5800	24	72.5	2390	139.3	5400	436.6	299.6	ASR OFF
140.9	6160	93	24	21	141.32	6360	26	69.4	2270	140.5	6000	436.6	261.1	ASR OFF
142.22	6720	92	27	21.8	142.63	6840	27	0	2480	141.72	6520	436.6	220.4	ASR OFF

 

[big nog]

also getting it smoke tested tomorrow, it seems to not hesitate as much when it is not WOT, partial throttle seems smooth. i also got these fault codes today
knock sensor 1 intermittent, which is getting wired to ecu on sat too
maf signal too high intermittent
check dv fault code intermittent
will log other blocks tomor, not had time after work today
also why does the engine load go lower???

 

[<tuffty/>]

also getting it smoke tested tomorrow, it seems to not hesitate as much when it is not WOT, partial throttle seems smooth. i also got these fault codes today
knock sensor 1 intermittent, which is getting wired to ecu on sat too
maf signal too high intermittent
check dv fault code intermittent
will log other blocks tomor, not had time after work today
also why does the engine load go lower???

The actual fault codes are more useful than the text tbh mate but...
Maf signal too high is handled by a particular table in the map and its not unusual for people with the wrong tools and not much experience in mapping VAGs to miss adjusting this table...

VAG petrol ECU's are load based... they have no boost tables only load... they work off the basis of cylinder fill and what needs to be done to achieve that... if more airflow is required to meet the load request then more boost is applied...

How long has the car been mapped and did any of these issues manifest themselves after your car was mapped?

I did a quick google and GR Performance appear to specialise in Jap stuff...

<tuffty/>

 

[big nog]

As far I as know its only been mapped a few month back mate, I don't think it had issues before that, but not sure. Could the map be causing these codes then? Ill after see wot nick at rtech can do with it

 

[<tuffty/>]

As far I as know its only been mapped a few month back mate, I don't think it had issues before that, but not sure. Could the map be causing these codes then? Ill after see wot nick at rtech can do with it

tbh its looking like the map... I have no idea who these people are but I know of VAG specialists that can't map a VAG properly let alone a Jap specialist... just because you know how to tune something (and not disputing anyones ability to tune here) but the ME7 ECU is a complex beast and is easy to tune wrong...

Niki will sort you out... He an Bill are top of the game tuning these cars

<tuffty/>

 

[big nog]

Thanks mate
Another thing I forgot to mention is that it smells very fuelly under the bonnet, always has. Can sometimes smell it in the car, its that strong

 

[big nog]

just got back from smoke test and it was all clear, apart from the tiniest bit of smoke out of the n75 valve, could this be the culprit causing the issues? it came from the top metal hole in it
just done the blow/suck test on it and it leaks slightly when i suck through the tip pipe

 

[big nog]

i had a faulty fuel pump everyone, now replaced. thanks