My minor modding thread

[Andrew@A.L.D]

The back box is just to restrictive for the power lever your running. The back box is a chambered unit and just don't flow that well.

 

[<tuffty/>]

The back box is just to restrictive for the power lever your running. The back box is a chambered unit and just don't flow that well.

Not that sure it is as restrictive as you may think... EGT's are quite low on my current setup and this would suggest everything is flowing pretty well... I ran the std system for a short while and EGT's rocketed... that was definitely restrictive but happy with how the Miltek is working currently... not debating on if I would be better off fitting a less restrictive back box as no doubt I would but I have already been there and the Miltek is the compromise between power and hating being in the car due to the noise...

At some point I will open the box up as it is getting louder to look at repacking it... based on what I find inside I might look at replacing the internals with something more free flowing but for the time being I am happy its doing its job...

<tuffty/>

 

[Rosso TT]

What about bolting the pump into the firewall, above the steering rack like i did?

 

[s3dave]

The F/S and Launch control will be killing it, When Andrew showed me on his car, you could see the internal wadding spitting out..

 

[<tuffty/>]

What about bolting the pump into the firewall, above the steering rack like i did?
View attachment 11886

Sorry dude... that looks for too iffy a position to me... pipe work close to steering gaiter, pump next to really hot down pipe... not for me dude... it will end up in the boot as per plan A I think...

The F/S and Launch control will be killing it, When Andrew showed me on his car, you could see the internal wadding spitting out..

Yep lol... I have been washing furry stuff off the bumper for weeks

This is the price you pay for having the toys ;P

<tuffty/>

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

The F/S and Launch control will be killing it, When Andrew showed me on his car, you could see the internal wadding spitting out..

yep sick of it, new system is on the cards

 

[Prawn]

As cool as all this launch and NLS is, it does seem to be killing just about everything, perhaps I'm best off without it, if Pauls damaged something with it then I certainly couldn't be trusted

 

[<tuffty/>]

Started the day helping out Bill with fabricating an inlet manifold for the Mk2 Golf track we built a year or so ago... then the S3 went on the dyno

As we weren't sure if the 550's @4bar were going to cut it Bill did an actuator run initially... this netted 306hp/7.5krpm @15psi... injectors were ticking along at 14ms so plenty left... plugged in the N75 and did a run... the map that was in at the time was pretty much the one I had stopped on when the Tial wastegate decided to undo itself... that netted 365hp... boost as steady as you like and repeatable so phew... the Tial issue was fixed...

It was clear that fuelling needed tweaking as AFR dropped dutifully to 12.5 but climbed briefly on the onset of boost and also climbed to mid 13's at 6k before dropping back down to 12's... bit of tweaking later and...



Cool but there was a bit of a boost spike so Bill smoothed that out a tad and we settled on the final figure for today of 389hp and 324ftlbs...

...however... all is not rosey... the car didn't make the 400hp we expected... looking at the curves the torques drops off dramatically just after 6k which is a little unusual and no matter how much more boost we added it did not want to lift the power...

There was no timing pull up until nearly 6krpm (not loads but some) and I have a suspicion that the log exhaust mani is fighting us now... it seems very sensitive as to what power it will produce over a certain level... all the logs showed that the engine should be producing power.. had 344gs of airflow, 750deg EGT's (measured at the DP just off the turbine), the mani and Tial didn't glow any other colour than a nice red so I believe the issue is the inefficiency of the log manifold at high flow/rpm... its not got much of a collector ramp on it so exhaust gasses will be firing into other ports which at higher RPM is more of an issue...

Only way I can proceed here is to use a tubular mani... this means either going top mount in which case I could consider the TSR mani like the one Stacey is using or potentially make my own so that I can retain my underslung OEM++ look... watch this space....

Anyhoo... my VVT was rattling like a trooper during the session so maybe that not helping as when the VVT is 'deflated' you will loose top end power... tomorrows mission will hopefully involve the following parts...

Yep, a second hand VVT unit that looks on the face of it ok (worth a punt) and ADR NA cams ... breaking out the verniers for a quick and dirty lift difference test I measured from the base of an exhaust and inlet lobe zeroing the verniers in between each test to work out the difference in lift...

Exhaust difference... (remember, turbo cam was measured, verniers zero's and then measured the ADR lobe)

Inlet difference...

Regardless of the figures the car drives fantastically... third gear is just awesome and off boost response is sooooooooo much better now Bill's dialled it all in... the best news of course and the main reason for getting on the dyno in the first place was that the duty on the injectors doesn't appear to be maxed out... I don't know the latest figures but with the later runs I believe we had somewhere in the region of 16 or 17ms... will confirm of course later...

Not sure if Bill will have time to get the car back on the dyno tomorrow once the cams are in but it will happen..

<tuffty/>

 

[Sam_]

How about the pagparts vband manifold? Underslung still. I was looking at it but not sure if the full GTX housing will fit or hit the transfer box. I have a spare GTB housing for when the time comes but it doesn't look as lairy or have the ported surge housing.

 

[<tuffty/>]

How about the pagparts vband manifold? Underslung still. I was looking at it but not sure if the full GTX housing will fit or hit the transfer box. I have a spare GTB housing for when the time comes but it doesn't look as lairy or have the ported surge housing.

Its an option for sure but tbh I don't want to buy another hotside (and Tial ones are not that cheap) and if I am going down this route then I would rather get something that I know will give me the best I can expect rather than something a little better than what I currently have...

I really fancy having a go at making one... biggest problem is the time it can take to make which makes it a cost prohibative project to repeat or be commercially viable (unless you have all the gear and do it day in day out)... Bill found this out when he did his one for a K04... however as its just for me and Bill has some fittings that can be used then its at least worth a punt... it won't take too much effort to mock something up.. I would like it to line up with what I currently have... how plausible this is remains to be seen but if I make it myself then I can control the design... if my current manifold means I sit just under 400hp for now I can live with that... I am in no real hurry to get it changed out as yet..

<tuffty/>

 

[Sam_]

Yeah it's a shame they don't seem to do their T3 flange one any more. They do sell a .72 stainless vband hotside which I might grab nearer the time. Still unsure whether to use the GT2871 "for now" and do the GTX30 later or just do it all right first time.

400hp is "enough" for now I'm sure

Will you go top mount if you make your own or stick with bottom mount? Space issues with both I guess. Damn RHD.

 

[StaceyS3]

Possibly a relentless v3 is a good base and could cut it around the collector and then have a slightly larger bore up to the flange from the collector? Cheap enough to happily chop in to?

Could always get a TSR and chop the mani flange off and reverse it to make it underslung......although it really would take some balls to take a grinder to a new one of them lol

 

[Sam_]

Or just go top mount

 

[<tuffty/>]

Problem I have is I already have a large investment in the kit I have... if I was realistically looking to go top mount/buy a mani or a n other route to over come this I would rather scrap what I have and start again... so a GTX type turbo, tubular mani (like the TSR as while its top mount its not in your face) and go v-band everywhere...

I am hoping that the ADR cams will make a big enough difference that it will take me over the 400 mark and tbh I will be happy with that... at least I know I have essentially maxed the setup I have and if I want more power then I would go for a new turbo/manifold combo...

When I think about it though I have seen vast improvements in the output of the engine since I started the build... on the original turbo I was struggling to get more than 350hp... once I changed the turbine and hotside combo I was getting around 360hp... now with the inlet and other stuff I am very close to 400hp so its definitely evolved... happy with that

...and like you say Sam, 400hp will do for now ;P

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

I think 400bhp would be enough for most people

 

[burns3]

I think 400bhp would be enough for most people

I told my girlfriend i'd be happy with the power bumble is running atm for ages but soon as you look at stacey or andrews builds it makes you want to go even further!

Now i'm thinking 500bhp is a nice round figure to aim for, which is why i have been pestering bill about the fp red for the future already

The joys of being a member of ****** ASN, your pockets can always be emptied very quickly!

 

[Welly]

This is the problem with that good old slippery slope of tuning. It's never, ever enough. No matter what you do, no matter how far you go, you can ALWAYS go further.

Looking at a supercharger kit for the M is very tempting...

 

[Prawn]

Indeed, I have just bought some ADR cams, and fingers crossed tufftys cam testing gives good results or I've just wasted my money

 

[burns3]

This is the problem with that good old slippery slope of tuning. It's never, ever enough. No matter what you do, no matter how far you go, you can ALWAYS go further.

Looking at a supercharger kit for the M is very tempting...

Get it done mate it will go and sound awesome..... but get rid of them ****** nankang tyres first

 

[burns3]

Indeed, I have just bought some ADR cams, and fingers crossed tufftys cam testing gives good results or I've just wasted my money

Thats another thing to do aswel so may aswel hold off doing the valves n that until i know more about which will be the best cam for my setup when the head gets ripped off again. Or i could just stop coming on here

 

[<tuffty/>]

So... got the car on the ramp and cracked on with the next job... replacement (secondhand) VVT tensioner and ADR cams...

After removing (what seemed loads) of stuff I got to the cams and turned this...

...into this...

...by removing this lot...

Then my favourite job... sorting the belt tensioner damper... inserted the pin ready for when the damper has been reset using a special tool (aren't they all...)

...prepped the tool... (loads of space... NOT!...)

...after a bit of winding the pin popped in...

Coated the cams in build lube, set the cams to the normal 16 rollers on the chain and fitted them in with the replacement VVT... I used a new tensioner gasket set...

...and I use a little VAG sump sealant to help the half moon seal... this helps to prevent potential future leaks...

Before fitting the cam cover gasket you also need to add a little sealant into the transition from the flat part of the head to the grooved parts of the front cam cap and chain tensioner

...I also add a little sealant to the half moon recess for the cam cover gasket

I reused the belt as its only done 5000 miles and after a fun 5 mins getting that back on I was more or less done...

I did take my time doing this job and gave the followers a chance to settle as they can jack up from removing the cams but simply leaving them a little while and they settle back down nicely... not really an issue when doing the head on the bench (as has been the case for mine in the past) but worth noting...

Started the engine and all was good... idle was fine, no fault codes (correlation fault code being the typical one if you manage to get the belt a tooth out which is easy to do...)...

Went the drive the car out of the workshop and noticed a little rattle coming on/off load as I reversed out... ****!!!.... my fears were realised after I had left the car outside while clearing up and cold started her... BRRRRAAAAT!!!!... the noise of a VVT in its death throes... ******... not having much luck with VVT tensioners

So, TPS will get a call in the morning and a new one will be fitted... do it once, do it right... *sigh*

Hopefully get that on tomorrow if TPS has one in stock and hopefully get the car on the dyno for a couple of runs to see if the ADR cams have made any difference..

<tuffty/>

 

[Prawn]

An ********. Stupid vvt crap.

Did you manage to do that without touchi g the evil engine mount on that side Paul? I may well be doing mine on Saturday and I genuinely hate anything Cam timing related!

 

[<tuffty/>]

An ********. Stupid vvt crap.

Did you manage to do that without touchi g the evil engine mount on that side Paul? I may well be doing mine on Saturday and I genuinely hate anything Cam timing related!

Yep... strategic bending of the pin to curl it in ... mount untouched.. thankfully...

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

is'nt it just handy there's stock just on the shelf to help yourself from.
lol

hopefully tps will have a vvt in stock and we can put to bed finally your long going pos vvt issue

 

[Broken Byzan]

An ********. Stupid vvt crap.

Did you manage to do that without touchi g the evil engine mount on that side Paul? I may well be doing mine on Saturday and I genuinely hate anything Cam timing related!

And awesome modded tool thingy....

 

[<tuffty/>]

Have to say that Bill is probably the only reason my build as got as far as it has... yeah I do the work (except the welding bits of course) but without his help and support I suspect I may even have sold up by now...

Thanks mate... you are a fecking star and words cannot express how much a value your friendship and all the help you have given me over the years...

The kids are now back on eBay ready to pay for the VVT ;P

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

excellent.. get a good price on the women.. More modding moneys

 

[<tuffty/>]

And awesome modded tool thingy....

Its a fantastic modded tool thingy great mate as is you (fantastic rather than a modded tool of course ) and all the help you have given me over the years too...

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Following on from my emotional outburst last night (its been a long week and the rattly VVT finished me off) Bill called TPS for a price of a new VVT unit... turns out they retail for around 430 quid and the discount was rubbish!...

So... I took a chance on one from GSF... half the price and a 'pattern part' but comes with a 12 month warranty so f*ck it... worth a punt...

No markings so clearly not trying to obviously copy an OEM one unlike the chinese copies and the blatant OEM copy I bought... just to remind you the chinese copy gave me a set point not reached fault code all the time and the forgery was bought believing it to be genuine... which it wasn't...

Only need to undo the inlet cam to remove the tensioner unit... fitted the tensioner tool first then sequentially undid the cam caps to let the cam lift up uniformly...

...then lift the inlet twisting as you go to allow the tensioner and cam to be lifted out...

Slide the tensioner out from chain trying to keep the chain in its original position to keep the cam to cam timing right (can be sorted later if you **** it up of course)... I removed the inlet as it was just easier for me but as long as you keep the chain set as it was there is no need to...

Fitted a new gasket...

...and fitted the new unit... marked up the 16 rollers and timed up the cams...

...removed the tensioner tool and chucked everything back together...

...phew!... started the engine and apart from the initial rattle as the tensioner filled with oil its was all quiet and good.. yay!... checked for fault codes and nothing came up...

Hopefully thats the end of my VVT woes and potentially a reasonable supplier of replacement VVT units where you don't end up walking like John Wayne for 6 months after buying one...

No dyno today but will be on at some point this weekend...

<tuffty/>

 

[Sidey]

You have been having really bad luck with this VVT sensor. Glad its all sorted now.

 

[Prawn]

Looking forward to dyno results PT, and glad the rattle is finally over for you!

 

[<tuffty/>]

Quick interim update... car is on the dyno... a quick fault code check revealed the set point not reached code that seems to haunt the pattern part VVT market... ****... will deal with that later but want to check to see if it comes back in case it was just a 'running in' issue...

First results on the ADR cams are in... 408hp (up from 389hp), torque is down a bit but that is due to the boost being lower... I am running fixed duty cycles to get boost control over 1.5bar so for the same duty I am getting less boost... this is a result of the engine breathing better so the next thing to do is turn boost back up and see where things end up...

More later


<tuffty/>

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Result

 

[burns3]

Nice gain there so far then, looking forward to seeing the end result :thumbsup:

 

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Get that boost up to 2+ bar now

 

[Prawn]

fecking RESULT PT, for a first run test, it's unquestionably up, so that's great news.

Looking forward to seeing the final outcome after some more tweaking

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ok... things I have learnt from today....my car is very fussy about back to back runs and gets herself in a right two and eight.... she also doesn't like 30psi for too long either...

So... the conclusion of today was that the NA cams did give me peak power at higher RPM for less boost but at the expense of power and torque before 5k rpm...

Consistency was an issue so I really need to get my meth installed as the IAT's were climbing after each run hindering things... EGT's were not too shabby mostly peaking at 750deg in its post turbine position (approx 850 deg where the OE position is) but did hit 790deg at one point after a few back to back runs after turning up the boost bit...

Where we have left it for now is running a little less boost but getting a bit more peak torque and torque at higher RPM... this should keep the old girl happy for now while I decide the next course of action...

With a bit of tweaking I could return her back to over 400hp but I lose torque and everything gets hot... I would rather sit back now and look at the logs and graphs to work out where we are and get the WMI fitted to improve consistency of the runs...

Not a wasted day but proves its not always as easy to get what you think out of stuff...

Bill believes the NA cams are better suited to the smaller turbos and a set will be tested on the Lupo soon...

<tuffty/>

 

[<tuffty/>]

Scores on the doors so far...

While not at 400hp as yet I decided I wanted to run a little less boost at the moment until the WMI is on and I have decided on the fate of the NA cams... if we can't get them to lift power and torque at higher rpm a decent amount over the std cams then I think I would prefer to have the std cams and the lower down power etc back tbh...

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

more top end more duration required imho

 

[Westy]

I think you need more time on the dyno Tuffty lol. Have you got any idea just how many hours and miles it's done on the dyno? Must be more then the road