Copy K04 off ebay/china? Have a read inside............. Beware

[badger5]

Reposted off my Badger5 Facebook page:

A thing to note from an AGU MK4 K04 golf which came in today for checking things out.. running issues, boost spike etc.. There were assorted pipe plumbing errors, (n75 plumbed wrong etc) but once rectified, and actuator crack pressure check to be 8psi, and actuator only dyno run was tentatively done (N75 electrically disconnected)... As soon as it started to spool and got over 3500rpm the boost would rocket up 20+... Lifted as it did this as it started to misfire. N75 faulty perhaps.. Direct plumbed charge pipe to actuator, re-ran, same thing.. Hmmmm. Something fishy going on here. Allowed it to cool of, undid actuator from the turbos wastegate, and felt for smooth free travel.. Not great TBH, and felt like it would hang up when trying to close.. Problem inside the turbos wastegate/hotside. To try and make it safe, we lockwired the wastegate wide open.... re-ran on dyno and exact same thing, 3.5k it would sky rocket boost. Boost Creep from hell. Turbo is a Chinese Copy K04... and if like the relentless one I saw of samb, its wastegate hole was tiny, which is whats causing this uber creep. Beware of shyte chinese copy k04's I suggest.. You may end up with the same issue of stupid boost and zero control of it. Too small a wastegate hole, not enough exhaust gas can be bypassed past the turbine and it runs away with boost. Boost Creep. Beware folks. Dont let this happen to you

 

[Dani_B19]

Doesnt dan rate these though aslong as the WG is ported propely bill?

 

[badger5]

sight unseen, the quality cannot be determined. Aside from the stupid small wg apature, it may be "ok"
Dan will be seeing it no doubt shortly to magic it to life properly tho.

 

[liquids3]

I take it this was mel's car?,thank's for spending time and care on this bill.she has just bought the car,i had alook at it and drove it when she got it,and advised her not to drive it,thanks to the boost gauge,the person she bought it from had'nt answered his phone,and lives 4 hour's away,so she has'nt had the best of luck,and can't take it back,her lesson to learn,there was'nt a dump valve on there,just broom end's and cut pipe's everywhere,thanks for the info,will speak to dan (black widow turbo's) this week and get something sorted turbo wise,then mayby sort the rest of this minefeild.do feel sorry for her,lucky this did'nt melt.

 

[badger5]

lucky it did'nt bend/break a rod...
wg is wired wide open and still uncontrolled boost spike.. Scarey

 

[Dani_B19]

Liquid i emailed you the other day on a private email address about your heatsheilds, did you get it? Sorry for going off topic

 

[beachbuggy]

As of yet I don't know how to rate them, I bought sans old k04 hybrid with the sole intention of building it properly, ie rs6 turbine, large bearing kit . And seeing how it goes.

Only other eBay turbo I've seen is the one I got for Dave but the was going on existing known to work( non boost creep) eliminator housing. But it looks good from initial inspection , but it'll still be balanced and rebuilt with known quality bearings etc.

just buying a Chinese tubby and fitting it blind is a huge risk, xs power are selling their hybrids for £450 which for an badly spec'd turbo isn't worth the money especially when turbine housing needs porting and we don't know how long the bearings may or may not last.

I think what I paid Sam for the hybrid is about the right price :/) £50!

 

[badger5]

they would be ok as cheap as possible for comp housings and chra cores to replace I guess.. If BW parts are tricky to source
I would maybe consider chinese hotside if the wastegate penny bush was tack welded into position as the one I had here failed and slid up and down costing a whole bunch of time/hassle..

 

[liquids3]

Liquid i emailed you the other day on a private email address about your heatsheilds, did you get it? Sorry for going off topic

alright,um no i did'nt receive a msg,it is my miss's facebook,but she would let me know if i have received a msg.you can't receive msg's if you are not freind's with that person so i have been told.msg me on hear if that's ok.

 

[liquids3]

lucky it did'nt bend/break a rod...
wg is wired wide open and still uncontrolled boost spike.. Scarey

yep,not something you want melting on your roller's.some people should not be alowed to play with car's.no dump valve, hks exhaust,ko4 set up never been maped wtf.
wish i went up with her to have alook.mugged of to say the least.

 

[liquids3]

As of yet I don't know how to rate them, I bought sans old k04 hybrid with the sole intention of building it properly, ie rs6 turbine, large bearing kit . And seeing how it goes.

Only other eBay turbo I've seen is the one I got for Dave but the was going on existing known to work( non boost creep) eliminator housing. But it looks good from initial inspection , but it'll still be balanced and rebuilt with known quality bearings etc.

just buying a Chinese tubby and fitting it blind is a huge risk, xs power are selling their hybrids for £450 which for an badly spec'd turbo isn't worth the money especially when turbine housing needs porting and we don't know how long the bearings may or may not last.

I think what I paid Sam for the hybrid is about the right price :/) £50!

you ok dan,what would you recomend then?,bin it or get you to work your magic,would it be reliable,or worth it,how did you get on with the copy hybrid you made up?,if not do you have any oem ko4's ect???

 

[badger5]

yep,not something you want melting on your roller's.some people should not be alowed to play with car's.no dump valve, hks exhaust,ko4 set up never been maped wtf.
wish i went up with her to have alook.mugged of to say the least.

it was mapped for k04 once i think, but my guess is the original died and this ebay thing replaced it and will have been wrong ever since

 

[liquids3]

it was mapped for k04 once i think, but my guess is the original died and this ebay thing replaced it and will have been wrong ever since

that make's sence,from the paperwork turbo bought in 2010,last mapped in 2005.but yea don't think the engine would last that long.

 

[badger5]

In contrast to the oh too common knock offs about, below is a REAL Forge FMDV008, on lightest green spring, happily passing the air under water bubble test perfectly.

Forge Motorsport fmdv008 happily holding 30psi and passing air un | Facebook

 

[beachbuggy]

I've just looked at a copy turbo. Main bearing was a single feed but designed on a dual feed but without the dual feed! How or why this was designed I have no idea. But needless to say the journal was scored and heat scorched from lack of oil where it counts!

 

[Prawn]

In contrast to the oh too common knock offs about, below is a REAL Forge FMDV008, on lightest green spring, happily passing the air under water bubble test perfectly.

Forge Motorsport fmdv008 happily holding 30psi and passing air un | Facebook

This is excellent news indeed Bill, but I can't help assume it was meant for this thread with a very similar title!

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...nese-dump-valves-assorted-shyte-all-leak.html

 

[slappy_dunbar]

What size was the wastegate port? can you measure it?

 

[badger5]

I've just looked at a copy turbo. Main bearing was a single feed but designed on a dual feed but without the dual feed! How or why this was designed I have no idea. But needless to say the journal was scored and heat scorched from lack of oil where it counts!

owch..
explains its lack lustre spool and low airflow.... it was seizing on me
doh!

 

[badger5]

What size was the wastegate port? can you measure it?

on the one dans got I ported it already but it started life at around 18-20mm max

 

[liquids3]

Turbo's of,did it in the rain last nite (lovely).will contact dan now

 

[<tuffty/>]

Any pics?

<tuffty/>

 

[liquids3]

Any pics?

<tuffty/>

rubish photo,but hear's one.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Got one of the hotside with the wastegate open? this is the reason its not doing what it should..

<tuffty/>

 

[liquids3]

Got one of the hotside with the wastegate open? this is the reason its not doing what it should..

<tuffty/>

yes did have alook at it,does'nt seem to be closeing fully,have'nt got the turbo on me,or any more pic's.will post some more pic's soon.

 

[liquids3]

Got one of the hotside with the wastegate open? this is the reason its not doing what it should..

<tuffty/>

just wen to have another look at the turbo,like i said the wastegate seem's abit loose,does'nt close flat,and also i see what you meen now with the whole,it's tiny,im learning,i understand now

 

[badger5]

just wen to have another look at the turbo,like i said the wastegate seem's abit loose,does'nt close flat,and also i see what you meen now with the whole,it's tiny,im learning,i understand now

good pic.. one down the throat would be nice to see also.
confirms Exactly what we thought

and

 

[liquids3]

So do you think this would be ok to bore out to the correct size,or best to change turbo for gen unit?,ive never seen or came across this before.

 

[beachbuggy]

It looks like from the picture that the bush in the waste gate is loose and the waste gate won't shut properly.

Even if the turbine housing is ported, waste gate bush welded I'd still raise questions over the internals quality....

you might be better off finding a second hand unit... It probably is cost prohibitive to fix that one...

 

[s3dave]

*O/T*
Inbox full Dan...:icon_thumright:

 

[liquids3]

It looks like from the picture that the bush in the waste gate is loose and the waste gate won't shut properly.

Even if the turbine housing is ported, waste gate bush welded I'd still raise questions over the internals quality....

you might be better off finding a second hand unit... It probably is cost prohibitive to fix that one...

yes that's what i was thinking was wrong with the unit as wel as the hole size,whole turbo's crap.ok dan thank's very much...

 

[beachbuggy]

If you want to send me the unit, and are happy , i'm happy to take a look and rebuild it, balance and replace bearings, port the housing and weld up the waste gate bush. I can't guarantee it'll be like a genuine one but I'd do it at cost price to see if we can salvage something from what you have and for future units.. If its toast then I won't bother..

 

[badger5]

questionable internals given its source of supply is unknown but likely far east (CN)
I have a chinese sourced hotside here which was on a CR k04 hybrid, which failed on the same sleeve. I had ported it previously so that was ok after opening it up, but as Dan says, the internals vs cost of replacing with a rebuilt/new one would probably be better.

The sleeve could possibly be drifted back into place to centre the wg penny.. and welded into position.
The small apature could also be ported out to a size which wont create the creep we saw.
The internals, would remain *unknown* however.

Its been on this long.. and must have been overboosting since install and survived which is a +ve I guess, whilst remaining an *unknown*

Decisions, decisions..
This is the one I suffered, which turned out to be CN hotside not genuine BW, from CR (danes S3)

 

[liquids3]

I will have a think and sppeak to mel,i do understand though,and obveously not a unit you would love to put your name to dan,even after a full rebuild,im thinking oem unit,she has the money for a oem unit,so prob best bet,would you still recomend recondisioning a second hand orm unit?,or just check for play crack's ect,just thinking while a new unit is of.anyone know of any oem unit's about?

 

[liquids3]

Might go for a bigger turbo kit for my s3 now,been offered it as a kit,(have to get bill and tuffty to check this kit before buying),then mel can have my hybrid dan built with my mani ect.makes sence mel can have more power,money better spent for mel.and i get bigger power : )

 

[liquids3]

Might go for a bigger turbo kit for my s3 now,been offered it as a kit,(have to get bill and tuffty to check this kit before buying),then mel can have my hybrid dan built with my mani ect.makes sence mel can have more power,money better spent for mel.and i get bigger power : )

that turbo kit now sold,need to find a turbo kit for mine now.

 

[badger5]

Speak to Alex @ AKS Tuning.. His T25 based kit (not dissimilar to backdrafts) allows for internal gated T25 framed unit.. If thats what you're looking for.

Power Goal?
Done rods yet?

 

[liquids3]

Speak to Alex @ AKS Tuning.. His T25 based kit (not dissimilar to backdrafts) allows for internal gated T25 framed unit.. If thats what you're looking for.

Power Goal?
Done rods yet?

um looking around 350bhp +,have spoken to sam bryant on his conversion he's building up.was going to stick with the black widow hybrid,just an opportunity to go big power and sale my unit.would need rods..

 

[liquids3]

What sort of power gain's can be seen from these kits bill (aks)

 

[badger5]

depends on the turbo chosen dude.. T25 framed is its limitation imho, so if power aims are sub 400bhp levels its *possible*