Large Plenum Inlet + Eliminator Hybrid News

s3dave

s3dave

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I took my large port inlet off and redesigned it as it was very tight up to the battery box..
I angled it down towards the IC pipe, and it feels a lot better to drive...
I do get a loud pop coming off throttle though, not sure why??...
Any way a couple of pics...

img1119tf.jpg

img1120h.jpg


Ive seen a 18 /g/s gain at the top end but surging has raised itself again,,, quite badly..

Dan is making me a New turbo :arco: so i guess i will need another custom map on it again...:crying: but i will add my WMI this time
 
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Looks cool Dave! I must get round to having a go at one of these at some point. Currently toying with the idea of using some 4'' alloy tube as a RMR style plenum.

I guess surge has reappeared as you've increased flow able to go on but not helped any more get out again :(

The surge CAN be mapped around, or depending on minor it is, driven around.

I can make mine surge if I actively try to, by loading it up really low down in high gears, but when on the pace it never surges at all.
 
Cracking work dave! Will the inlet be going blue or chrome? :whistle2:
 
Prawn said:
Currently toying with the idea of using some 4'' alloy tube as a RMR style plenum.
Click to expand...

That's not an ideal design though. You want it to taper to the last cylinder to help flow to the cylinders as they get further from the throttle like Daves. Check I.E. and SEM inlets amongst others. A Graham Bell's book on F.I. Tuning has a good section on inlet design, worth a read.
 
Sam_ said:
That's not an ideal design though. You want it to taper to the last cylinder to help flow to the cylinders as they get further from the throttle like Daves. .
Click to expand...

But Daves plenum costs £90, and a bit of 4'' alloy tube costs a tenner :'(
 
Very nice mate. Any chance of knocking me one up nxt month :).
 
absolutely, completely, 100% pikey Bill.

I'd utterly love one of your inlets using the Excessive plenum, but 2013 is ''save for a house'' year, which in my brain translates to ''if you want it, you've got to make it yourself rather than buy it'' year :(
 
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Just cut yours in half and weld in a strip of metal to increase volume like the americans do like i`ve mentioned before. Thats pikeytastic!
 
Prawn said:
absolutely, completely, 100% pikey Bill.

I'd utterly love one of your inlets using the Excessive plenum, but 2013 is ''save for a house'' year, which in my brain translates to ''if you want it, you've got to make it yourself rather than buy it'' year :(
Click to expand...

"Preaching to the choir mate" :thumbsup:
 
Wait till you actually have a house and then a £200 inlet mani seems like a waste of money when things need decorating. Failing that, the mrs will be able to blow £200 on scatter cushions in no time!

I'll keep an eye out for an inlet mani but it's really going to have to be at a good price for me to buy.
 
Westy said:
Wait till you actually have a house and then a £200 inlet mani seems like a waste of money when things need decorating. Failing that, the mrs will be able to blow £200 on scatter cushions in no time!
Click to expand...

Amen to that brother! You know you're fecked when the Laura Ashley catalogue appears looking 'well thumbed'....:scared2:
 
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Damn. I'm delaying that for as long as I can. Plus screw buying in Sydney, it's pricier than London.

I have an IE inlet on the way haha
 
audi upgrades
Prawn said:
absolutely, completely, 100% pikey Bill.

I'd utterly love one of your inlets using the Excessive plenum, but 2013 is ''save for a house'' year, which in my brain translates to ''if you want it, you've got to make it yourself rather than buy it'' year :(
Click to expand...

Looking that way here too.
You do the design work and i will get em made up?
haha, a mate of mine make them for turbo'd honda's and the like now... he has already said "tell me what you want and i will make it you.

Couldnt the alu pipe be cut so as to give a taper toward one end?
 
Not strictly anything to do with Daves Plenum but may be useful for it!

So Dave asked me to build him a hybrid slightly different to the rest. As I had the eliminator turbine housing still lying around I offer it to Dave and said I would build him a 1 off hybrid, well basically similar to the the original eliminator but a little better :)

So in order to keep costs realistic we choose a gt28 as it would be a direct fitment into the existing housing. I purchased a new ebay unit which arrived yesterday and I have to say from the inital inspection looks a pretty decent unit. I know alot of people have had positive results with these so was reassuring when a unit turned up that looked like it wasn't made of chocolate!

All this said the turbo is going to be stripped, bearings and seals replaced with 360degree bearings and have it re-balanced to ensure it's all good. Then it will be rebuilt and setup to be a direct replacement for the original turbo.

obvious issues are the oil and water lines and also the compressor housing but this will all be over overcome i'm sure with the help other ASN members :)))

here's a few pictures, mainly for Dave of the gt28


photo-170.jpg

photo-169.jpg

photo-171.jpg
 
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Very good. What will this be capable of dan? So itll be a direct replacement for a ko4 turbo?
 
Dani_B19 said:
Very good. What will this be capable of dan? So itll be a direct replacement for a ko4 turbo?
Click to expand...

Well the gt28 is realistically capable of around 380bhp, but we are really still limited by the turbine housing 50mm inlet. Although the housing is considerably larger than a stock K04 housing, it might still hamper the top end flow and EGT's, but I am hoping with new mapping techniques etc, better components than when this last ran it should be seeing 350bhp+. I know Bill when he tuned this when it was the original elimator said it stumbled with top end flow but I hope that we'll see some improvement this time..

Either way it's got to be better than Dave's current turbo ;-)
 
Interesting dan! If I'm understanding this right you're too to build the eBay chra, turbine, and cold side into the eliminator turbine housing?
i look forward to seeing the results :)
 
Didnt you build something similar dan and run it on you tt? When i upgrade by turbo would you be able to replicate this turbo again or is it a 1 off?
 
Dani_B19 said:
Didnt you build something similar dan and run it on you tt? When i upgrade by turbo would you be able to replicate this turbo again or is it a 1 off?
Click to expand...

Current turbo on my TT is a gtx35 compressor with the rs6 turbine. To be honest its a bit of a DOG, as it will flow 292grams but spools about 1000-1500rpm later than the rs6/2283 does so whilst it can pump the air it's really bogged down in the mid range. It was a complete mismatch of parts as by the time the gtx compressor got going the turbine had run out of puff! New hybrids for 2013 will have better comrpessors, making them more efficent and better flowing turbines, they will be more on a par with this gt28 setup so it'll be interesting to see how it works and sustainable bhp from a proven 380bhp unit..
 
Argh right. So you got some new plans up your sleeves for the hyrbrids then mate? If i could get between 370/380bhp thats be amazing m
 
Dani_B19 said:
Argh right. So you got some new plans up your sleeves for the hyrbrids then mate? If i could get between 370/380bhp thats be amazing m
Click to expand...

Haha... Nice one.... You and me both... I think at the moment 370/380bhp is a bit(( cough cough alot)) opimistic! but you never know... I can't see the small K04 turbine housing being able to flow that figures,
 
I hope it makes them numbers! Good luck with it all dan, looking forward to seeing the results! Ill be getting one regardless lol.
 
beachbuggy said:
Haha... Nice one.... You and me both... I think at the moment 370/380bhp is a bit(( cough cough alot)) opimistic! but you never know... I can't see the small K04 turbine housing being able to flow that figures,
Click to expand...

nor can I....
we see dougs results converge with what we see here in the UK... flow tops out at a 260g/s level.... you may see more incoming airflow but you dont see the corresponding increase in power, it plateaus... Still might impressive for whats designed to be 190g/s factory airflow hotside.
I would imagine the inlet-exhaust pressure ratio goes skyward at limit of hotside flow.. I know the K03 hybrid on the lupo did.... 22psi plenum 47psi exhaust manifold!, and its happy boost level being reduced allowed it to make more power via ign timing... 19psi=321bhp

I wonder how much more the eliminators hotside can flow.. Be interesting to follow.. However, on a practical basis, replicating these? How do you get just the hotside, and if folks wanted to explore this route, buying an ATP eliminator is an expensive approach if you plan on changing the internals...

Good testing... Larger hotside remains the key to me.
 
I await next weeks results from Sams car Bill.

It'll be interesting to see what the relentless manifold with it's 40mm collector can flow when given a much larger hotside to breath through.
 
I managed to top 292.548grams last night on the Maf, with some further map changes and colder IAT's and still able to keep a pretty steady 15degrees timing at redline. But I can almost guarentee it didn't make any difference to performance over say running it at 270 or 280grams this was at 21-22psi

Possibly the larger eliminator will help, but so might a larger turbine.. The gt28 is more akin to the larger turbine I plan on using soon and It'll be interesting to see if this larger wheel makes getting the gases out better and aids.

I know also that stripping out alot of the load protection in the mapping has taken it from C272grams to the current 292grams but whether that can actually be translate into power and not jsut extra heat is another question..

I might also get Daves turbine housing, if he's willing ????? to get the housing ceramic coated to see if that'll help... Any thoughts Bill?
 
beachbuggy said:
I managed to top 292.548grams last night on the Maf, with some further map changes and colder IAT's and still able to keep a pretty steady 15degrees timing at redline. But I can almost guarentee it didn't make any difference to performance over say running it at 270 or 280grams this was at 21-22psi
Click to expand...

Is this still not a very low timing figure Dan?

Forgive me here if I'm way out of my depth*, which I quite probably am, but when mapping mine, Niki seemed pretty decided on a limit of around 338-340bhp with 20-21 degrees of timing, with CF's creeping up when 22 degrees of timing was tried. He then went full circle and tried 25 degrees of timing, and the additional timing seemed to reduce temps and the like to such a degree that it then showed no CF's at all, just 0's right across the board. Power kept rising right up to 27 degrees of advance, but he left it at 25.5 in the final tune.

Is it possible that there is a 'timing' barrier which one must push through and come out the other side smiling? and that there are still gains to be had from yours?

The difference in the Lupo with just 3 degrees timing that I saw was incredible.

*almost certainly out of my depth, but worth a punt :laugh:
 
You are correct Nick..

more timing can equal lower egts.

Not helped in my case by 95 fuel and only asking for 15degrees timing.
 
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