Advice on fixed penalty notice

[shariain]

I got a fixed penalty notice on the 19th dec because of my number plate.

My question is should I have been read my rights when this was issued or Is this not a requirement.

New pressed plates ordered next day just waiting on them being delivered.

 

[daz5182]

What was the matter with them and how much is the fine?

 

[FactionOne]

[Just in case anyone does fancy looking at this at lowest common denominator level]

Before we get to the question of whether or not a FPN is valid if you weren't 'read your rights'... Hand on heart, did you know that the plates you were displaying didn't conform to BSAU145d?

 

[shariain]

The two coppers were very arrogant when they were speaking to me even though i was polite to them i was always taught to respect the police as my old man was one when I was younger but after my dealings with these 2 I can understand why people don't have the same respect for them now a days. They were standing in a petrol station trying to get out the rain waiting for easy pickings as soon as they seen me they reached for the book. The fine is £60 because my plate reads s1 8rys instead of s18 rys the plates were made about 8 years ago when i first bought the plate and they have never been remade I have never had any trouble with them in the past even when the plate was on my mkiv golf turbo I got pull a few times by traffic but was never spoke to about the plates.

Basically should I have been read my rights when they gave me the pink slip with the fine details on it.

 

[shariain]

[Just in case anyone does fancy looking at this at lowest common denominator level]

Before we get to the question of whether or not a FPN is valid if you weren't 'read your rights'... Hand on heart, did you know that the plates you were displaying didn't conform to BSAU145d?

As far as I was aware when I got the plates made the person that made them told me they were just outside the law and the only way would be by measuring them to find out if they confirmed to the correct standards by dvla they were made before it became compulsory to put the BSAU145d and postcode of the maker on them.

 

[jojo]

My dealing with police officers have always been good, but the warnings I got seemed to be at their descretion.

I give you an example of my modded B5 Passat which I have had for 10yrs+, driving around with tinted windows and misspaced plates on the front, but not the rear. No problems at all for 9 years, then pulled over into a cordoned off police area, I was told to remove my front tints, nothing on the reg plate at all.

Pretty good going I thought, never redid the front tints, as the car would be on the system, not missed them neither.

 

[lgooch]

Face facts. You broke the law albeit minor. Quick question. How do you get your car through an MOT with Mis-spaced plates as mine always gets knocked and I have to whip out my legal plates and stick them on before they will issue a ticket.

I would just take it on the chin and pay it even if they were snotty with you. Its no excuse i know but We all have bad days even in a public service sector.

 

[Broken Byzan]

You wern't arrested, why would they have read you your rights, Had you contested it and refused to take the ticket. You would have been warned to expect a court summons.

Your plate was wrong take the £60 slap on the wrists and hope the plates turn up soon as the time will be up and you will automaticaly lose your right to the fixed penalty iirc

 

[hades-]

as above you took the risk you got caught
you did well for a long time.

 

[quattrojames]

You only get 'rights' when you get arrested and taken into Police Custody.

The officers might have cautioned you before speaking to you, but they would only do that for their own means, principally so that they can use what you say in evidence should the matter go to court. None of that is really relevant as you accept you've committed the offence, and presumably are happy to pay the FPN.

Misplaced letters on a plate like that all fall under the 'Non-conforming VRM' part of the Road Traffic Act.

 

[FactionOne]

Sincerest thanks to all those arguing in favour of a little social conscience.

If you knew when you fitted them that they were "just" outside the law, you've done well to be 'just' getting away with it. Pay the £60, display plates in line with requirements (set by a democratic legislature), and move on.

(Hopefully taking the lesson that - when you KNOW you've done the crime, be a man and do the time - particularly when it's so inconsequential in the grand scheme of things)

All the best (sincerely),

Rob.

PS> For the record, as has been pointed out above, A FPN is a [mitigated] penalty offered (accepted at your discretion), in lieu of the authorities pursuing a prosecution. As such, you're not actually convicted of anything in practical terms, nor were you arrested to facilitate in effect, your admitting the offence (convicting yourself); the point of being put under arrest is the only one at which it's required that you're cautioned with regard your statutory rights. There's nothing to say you can't be cautioned without being under arrest, but it isn't required. [EDIT: I left the window idle while I was on the phone so missed qj's clearing the facts up before I hit the button]

 

[shariain]

Thanks for the replies. The fine is getting paid and new legal pressed plates ordered just waiting on delivery.

 

[jojo]

Just to let you know, I don;t think 'pressed' plates are actually legal in this country, but I'm most probably wrong.

 

[lgooch]

I think your right jojo as they don't reflect. All plates have to display then BS xxxx number

 

[FactionOne]

I wondered about this myself, but apparently there are some presseed plates which conform to the standard, which would at least imply they're retroreflective as per spec.

I also wouldn't be surprised if upon testing, differences are found in their characteristics - raised surfaces will lead to (even slight) shadowing, I would've thought - and as a consequence perhaps categoirsed and excluded by legislation in future - so it'd probably be wise to keep an eye on the situation even if today they do meet spec.

R

 

[ctd]

as i read it the spacing or position of the letters and numbers is wrong, the ANPR camera's are dumb and can't read plates that do not conform with the corrwct plate layout hance the fine, you could also have evaded any speeding fines you could have got from speed camera's coz they also are unable to read altered plates and the police don't like that at alol
as for being read your rights they have to do that so you are aware that any answer you give to their questions can and will be recorded in their log books SHOULD YOU decide to have you day in court to defend or dispute the ticket/fine, its nothing to do with being arrested

 

[quattrojames]

Photographs from speed camera's are normally read by 'human beings', so its only the ANPR camera's to worry about. Given that we're all car fans on here, you might be interested to know that if your car gets nicked the chances of it being recovered decrease greatly if ANPR cannot read the plate - accepting that 'whether you want it back' is a totally separate argument.

There is no requirement to read anybody their rights to issue a FPN as I mentioned above. There is a requirement for partial rights (ie legal advice) should you be interviewed at the roadside, but the OP wouldn't have been as the VRM offences are what's known as Absolute Offences.

NB This advice applies to England, Scottish law is different. I'm on TapaTalk so can't see where the OP is based.

 

[gary3306]

As an ex Police Officer myself, I advise you that an Officer should caution you with your rights if he suspects/knows you have committed ANY offence/crime, be that a summary offence or an indictable offence. However, unless you recorded your conversation with the officers (which I highly doubt lol), then you try proving that they didn't caution you (You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you don't mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court), and there was two of them (who are the courts going to believe?).

As said above, you've done the crime, just accept the time. As it were.

Oh and for the record, I ALWAYS used to caution ;-)

 

[ctd]

as a biker i have spent quite alot of time at the roadside talking to the boys in blue and have been cautioned many times, don't take it personally

 

[JohnE]

I know this won't be popular but misspaced plates, and black and silver ones on the wrong age cars are utterly sad and pathetic imho - nothing screams sad loser more to me. The more people that get done for this, the better in my book.

 

[ctd]

hang on i used to have them plates on my car......














but it was a 1972 electric blue mk1 escort mexico so that was ok i guess

 

[A4_MaJiK]

As an ex Police Officer myself, I advise you that an Officer should caution you with your rights if he suspects/knows you have committed ANY offence/crime, be that a summary offence or an indictable offence. However, unless you recorded your conversation with the officers (which I highly doubt lol), then you try proving that they didn't caution you (You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you don't mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court), and there was two of them (who are the courts going to believe?).

As said above, you've done the crime, just accept the time. As it were.

Oh and for the record, I ALWAYS used to caution ;-)

I always do this, I've even sometimes been asked to stop recording too!?

I was issued a FPN last year (3 points + £60 fine) for crossing my front wheels over the white line at a red light. I denied it but took the FPN off the officers anyway. Went to produce my documents at the police station and told them I wouldn't be surrendering my licence as I refuse to accept the FPN and would like to the officer to issue me with a court summons for the offence instead. Been well over 6 months now and nothing has come through so I got away without paying the fine or getting the points!

 

[Ste_Nova]

i got one for a tiny miss spaced front plate, i wasn't with the car and contested the ticket by post and won

 

[daz5182]

I know this won't be popular but misspaced plates, and black and silver ones on the wrong age cars are utterly sad and pathetic imho - nothing screams sad loser more to me. The more people that get done for this, the better in my book.

This post screams the same to me, I don't psy my taxes to be pulled and told off like a naughty kid by a copper with nothing better to do.

Granted some are daft and people will always push it however the majority are just enthusiasts who at least take the time to clean their plates.

 

[daz5182]

i got one for a tiny miss spaced front plate, i wasn't with the car and contested the ticket by post and won

Good man, but what a waste of time on both sides. Surely there are more pressing issues than generating revenue by handing bout fines to generally good citizens who drive.

 

[jdp1962]

The purpose of a registration plate is to identify the car and its keeper, not to massage the owner's vanity. For reasons QuattroJames explained earlier, the law on fonts and spacing are there to make that task easier, and stopping people breaking that law is no more a waste of time than stopping people breaking any other law.

To me, this is the silliest and most pointless way of getting a fine; a bit like a footballer getting a yellow card for dissent.

 

[ctd]

if you car gets stolen with miss placed letters/numbers on the plate and ANPR cameras can't read it then the chances of getting your car back are reduced, is it worth it, i don't think so

 

[@udi A3]

Im going to go back to the MOT's passed point:
If the MOT tester had failed this plate for not being legal, you would have saved yourself a fine. Free retest at most stations, and cheepo plates at halfords for £30 approx.

IIRC VDRS can be issued for a number plate not conforming to the regulation. It is classified as a vehicle fault - ie does not conform.
This would have allowed you 14 days to get the plate changed and stamped at the testing station.

If i was in your shoes, id contest the £60 fine on the grounds that the plate is readable, hasnt been changed for 8 years, and has always passed MOT leaving you no reason to doubt its legality. If you were not made aware of your rights and accepted the fixed notice and paid on the spot under duress I would be complaining to the seniors.

Not all police are bad, but I had a very bad experience with one who lied to me blatently on the side of the road, and his super misslead me too, costing me my car. I was young and stupid then, and didnt know my rights or who to turn to for help.
I was pulled as a 'no insurance flag'. They claimed to have spoken to my insurance company who denied me being insured. I was in fact insured, and the insurance company wrote to me confirming this and that there was no such convo with the police. The super refused to accept the car was insured and suggested I re insure it elsewhere which i couldnt afford to do. I couldnt use my works business insurance according to the super as I could not pass the car into my bosses care or control whilst it was impounded even for the purposes of him collecting it or me driving on that policy. It was suggested at one point to get a friend to insure it, so i did, and was told he didnt legally own the car and his insurance policy was taken out with intent to recover the car only and therefore would be invalid.

I ended up having the car crushed and kept that letter from the insurance co and the log of events, should i ever be pulled up in court. I never actually got a summons, nor any points for this.

 

[jdp1962]

Im going to go back to the MOT's passed point:
If the MOT tester had failed this plate for not being legal, you would have saved yourself a fine. Free retest at most stations, and cheepo plates at halfords for £30 approx.

IIRC VDRS can be issued for a number plate not conforming to the regulation. It is classified as a vehicle fault - ie does not conform.
This would have allowed you 14 days to get the plate changed and stamped at the testing station.

If i was in your shoes, id contest the £60 fine on the grounds that the plate is readable, hasnt been changed for 8 years, and has always passed MOT leaving you no reason to doubt its legality. If you were not made aware of your rights and accepted the fixed notice and paid on the spot under duress I would be complaining to the seniors.

I really don't think your logic works here. Just because an MOT tester has not flagged them as illegal doesn't detract from the fact they are illegal, and the original poster has admitted knowing they were.

 

[JohnE]

This post screams the same to me, I don't psy my taxes to be pulled and told off like a naughty kid by a copper with nothing better to do.

Granted some are daft and people will always push it however the majority are just enthusiasts who at least take the time to clean their plates.

No I pay my taxes for that (money well spent) - law's the law.

Get caught, cough up - the reason why the plates need to per spec appears elsewhere on here - why do you think the law doesn't apply to you?

 

[JimC64]

To be honest, I wouldn't bother complaining about it either.....

The OP knew the plates were illegal and got away with it for a good while.................now just take it on the chin and pay up for gods sake.

The only trouble I have is the Police ( not in general I might add as most of them are ok and just doing their job ).....There are some who really want to rub it in, gloat almost and revel in giving you a good verbal tongue lashing. In some ways you'd think we'd just did a bank job and did a whole getaway scene instead of having dodgy plates or perhaps doing 45 in a 40mpg.

My point is not exactly the crime of the century in either case but some officers like to make you feel like a real criminal

My illegal plates aren't mis spelled or don't have a fancy background or dodgy lettering. I've been stopped by the police one, perhaps twice in the last 4 - 5 years and nothings ever been said, Its also passed 3 mots to date as well.
If I ever get pulled for them I'll pay the £60 fine and take it on the chin...

 

[jdp1962]

2.0TDI badged as a 3.0TDI Quattro.

Why?

 

[MartayMcFly]

'Miranda rights' only apply when you're arrested... ignorance is not an excuse either, so no matter how you look at it if your plate didn't/doesn't meet the regulations then you're liable to pay the fine.

The police can (on their own discretion) order you get it sorted within a specified time (14 days, for example) and once proven to meet the current regs (usually by an MOT centre) then the fine will be waived.

 

[Ste_Nova]

2.0TDI badged as a 3.0TDI Quattro.

Why?

my 3.0 is badged as a 2.0

 

[jojo]

2.0TDI badged as a 3.0TDI Quattro.

Why?

Should get pulled over for this reason alone! :busted_cop:

 

[sidibear]

my 3.0 is badged as a 2.0

My old Cosworth powered 2.9 sierra was badged as a 2.0 ghia.

Your plates were illegal, accept it, pay it, move on.

 

[daz5182]

No I pay my taxes for that (money well spent) - law's the law.

Get caught, cough up - the reason why the plates need to per spec appears elsewhere on here - why do you think the law doesn't apply to you?

Money well spent to be told off in a condescending manner for doing 3 or 4 mph over the limit or similar? Right oh mate.

Face it motorists are an easy target, good revenue, what money can be made from other law breakers?

Each to their own I suppose.

 

[jdp1962]

I've never been spoken to by a policeman in a condescending manner. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing it's because of the way I speak to them.

 

[daz5182]

I've never been spoken to by a policeman in a condescending manner. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing it's because of the way I speak to them.

Maybe my bad luck or where I'm from but I have, no matter how they are approached, I have a number of friends in the force and even their fellow officers don't have the time of day for majority of traffic cops.

 

[Abb]

Just a note to say juicy Jen (sponsor on here) is doing LEGALLY pressed number plates which obviously conform to UK legislation for those who are interested.
On subject Shariain, face facts, you are in the wrong, pay the fine, put it behind you!!