How does a s3 with 300/330bhp+ compare to e46 m3

They both feel rapid and over the same derestricted road cover ground very quickly, as has been said though once it gets to the higher speeds the S3 would have lost out. On the mountain mile I would have regularly seen 145mph in the M3 whereas the S3 is running out of road by 135-140mph. I had the SMG "2" box in mine and the gear changes were much quicker than anything I can manage in the S3 which will of had a bearing on things also.
 
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Hammy999 said:
They both feel rapid and over the same derestricted road cover ground very quickly, as has been said though once it gets to the higher speeds the S3 would have lost out. On the mountain mile I would have regularly seen 145mph in the M3 whereas the S3 is running out of road by 135-140mph. I had the SMG "2" box in mine and the gear changes were much quicker than anything I can manage in the S3 which will of had a bearing on things also.
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yeah we can't compete in the gear changing times to likes of smg,dsg
 
Off the mark the S3 would have the edge but as you get close towards 100mph the M3 will make up the ground no problem, I've owned a CSL and that was brutal with it having around 20hp, 30lbsft increase and around 150kg lighter than a stock E46 M3 although I have been in a fair few E46 M3's personally in my experience you would need upwards of 350hp to embarrass an M3 due to transmission losses.

Regards
John
 
JMB-S3 said:
Off the mark the S3 would have the edge but as you get close towards 100mph the M3 will make up the ground no problem, I've owned a CSL and that was brutal with it having around 20hp, 30lbsft increase and around 150kg lighter than a stock E46 M3 although I have been in a fair few E46 M3's personally in my experience you would need upwards of 350hp to embarrass an M3 due to transmission losses.

Regards
John
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Are the transmission losses big in a s3 as is it not just fwd till they slip then power go's to the rear so not a permanent 4wd
 
mid range torque means **** all when you are using the higher end of the rev range, let's face it, ragging it you'll spend most time between 6000 and 700 rpm

an e46 m3 weighs 1550kg an s3 8l weighs 1450kg , that the weight of one really heavy guy, so it;s actually not much at all

my money is on the m3, if you are beating the m3 i'd say it's due to the fact the m3 is in the middle of it's rev range as you've caught it off gaurd

remember, the s3 has to spin 2 diffs, a haldex unit, 4 drive shafts and a propshaft, the m3 only neds to spin a propshaft, 2 drive shafts and one diff

as for a k03s beating an e46 m3 - video ? because there's plenty of videos on youtube of m3's smoking 18.t in a mild tune !!
 
Nothing better than the unity we have on this forum lol

colicabcadam - I'm sure there is 18T getting beaten by m3,not denying it. I'm juat talking from personal experience.
I never said I would wipe the floor with a m3. Just from 0-100 I've never been passed by one. Like I said before,um sure it would be different from 100+
 
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I've just bought an e46 M3. I used to own a 400bhp s3.

A 330bhp s3 is probably very similar in straight line performance. Handling wise, the m3 is very planted as it was always designed to have 340bhp, not 210.

Loved my s3 as it was epically fast, but the m3 is such a competent package straight from the box.
 
BENJAMIN said:
I've just bought an e46 M3. I used to own a 400bhp s3.

A 330bhp s3 is probably very similar in straight line performance. Handling wise, the m3 is very planted as it was always designed to have 340bhp, not 210.

Loved my s3 as it was epically fast, but the m3 is such a competent package straight from the box.
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A 400bhp s3 would that be around 300bhp/ton ?
 
Personally I think turbo lag on larger turbo'd small capacity cars is largely irrelevant if you drive it right... all this 5th gear from 30mph nonsense will always favour the higher capacity NA engine or smaller turbo'd small capacity engine...

Anyone who drives a BT car properly knows which gear to start off in and a 400hp S3 is an animal off the line....

Granted they handle a little like a blancmange but a BT car once going is not laggy at all when driven right...

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Personally I think turbo lag on larger turbo'd small capacity cars is largely irrelevant if you drive it right... all this 5th gear from 30mph nonsense will always favour the higher capacity NA engine or smaller turbo'd small capacity engine...

Anyone who drives a BT car properly knows which gear to start off in and a 400hp S3 is an animal off the line....

Granted they handle a little like a blancmange but a BT car once going is not laggy at all when driven right...

<tuffty/>
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I totally agree with you on that
 
I quite liked the lag on mine. You could drive it slowly off boost, or like a complete nob on boost.
 
BENJAMIN said:
I quite liked the lag on mine. You could drive it slowly off boost, or like a complete nob on boost.
Click to expand...

Amen to that... when I had a K04 it felt almost too 'willing' when driving normally... the BT is a lot easier to drive personally and gives me the best of both worlds... sensible off boost and mental on it...

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Personally I think turbo lag on larger turbo'd small capacity cars is largely irrelevant if you drive it right... all this 5th gear from 30mph nonsense will always favour the higher capacity NA engine or smaller turbo'd small capacity engine...

Anyone who drives a BT car properly knows which gear to start off in and a 400hp S3 is an animal off the line....

Granted they handle a little like a blancmange but a BT car once going is not laggy at all when driven right...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

love how mine drives even with the lower compression but it does help been a 2.1 I can say that i think it drives better than a 1.9 Saab 150 TDI in low revs that i drive often and that feels very flat.

With the S3 i toddle round town happily at around 2-2.5k rpms, Nice chunk of torque at 4k as the turbo is producing boost and at about 4500-4800? its hitting full boost pull all the way to 7800, shift into the next gear and your still in the rev band ready to hit warp speed
 
oooo ooo ooo.... I have one... :)


<tuffty/>
 
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I came across a 911 GT3 once in a mildly tuned classic Subaru. We had a bit of fun on some back roads and guess he had more to lose than I did, lol. We then came to a set of red lights in a village on the edge of town. When the lights went green we both nailed it and I got a better start than him (he was in front). There wasn't much in up to 60. Then between 60-70 onwards he just f@@ked off into the distance. When we where in town at the next round about I had a big grin on my face and he wouldn't look at me. It's all about then fun!
I've spent time in a stage 1 S3 and E46 M3, all be it along time ago. It's like comparing apples and pears.
 
superkarl said:
Wish i could contribute :(



I saw an e46 today, god they age well
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My new one. Fap fap fap.
1F81B199-58D0-43CC-9D69-D36974008039-119-0000001755FCFFCB.jpg
 
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I wonder what they're up to with that Caddy in the beck ground?
 
I agree with what the bigger turbos drivers say, very easy to drive off boost and as mentioned lag isn't really an issue. If you want to put your foot down you may get lag in 1 gear if you are lazy, then you get lots of power in every gear.

When I get back in the new year I will be able to answer this thread properly by overtaking Ben in his bimmer..
 
Reesy said:
I agree with what the bigger turbos drivers say, very easy to drive off boost and as mentioned lag isn't really an issue. If you want to put your foot down you may get lag in 1 gear if you are lazy, then you get lots of power in every gear.

When I get back in the new year I will be able to answer this thread properly by overtaking Ben in his bimmer..
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But your car will still be a 5 door, denim blue, a3. I'll still be in an M3. Lol
 
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When Welly first took me out in Bumble before buying her she reminded me more of my old hondas I had in my younger years than my other s3. Having a BT is like having the best of both worlds in my opinion so like vtec but with a hell of a lot more kick.
 
Driving home from Kilmarnock tonight and came across a z3m coupe and i believe they have the same engine as the e46 m3.the z3m coupe is from the same town as me never knew till I seen the driver,we came up to a roundabout around it and took the slip on to the private road.i was at 70 mph in 4 th he was behind and I heard him down shift then he just planted so I did the same by the time I got going it was level at the start but the big effortless push of torque and holding 4th till the red line I had a cars length on him by then so straight into fifth foot to the floor and I was just pulling away all the time even up to speed when he would have hit his limiter so I was pretty happy with that :)


does anyone know how a z3m coupe compairs to the e46 m3 ??

I can't wait to get a m3 to go for it :)
 
e37 Z-coupe: 1450kg, 317bhp = 218.6bhp/ton, 0-100kph = 5.4 seconds, standing km = 24.4 seconds
e46 M3 (2000): 1570kg, 338bhp = 215.3bhp/ton, 0-100kph = 5.2 seconds, standing km = 23.7 seconds

Z-coupe's better power/weight, but the M3's slipperier. (drag coefficients of 0.37 and 0.33 respectively)

S3 (2002): 1423kg, 221bhp = 155.3bhp/ton, 0-100kph = 6.6 seconds, standing km = ?


Aero wise the A3's actually very evenly matched to the M3, no real aerodynamic reason the M3 would get away more at high speed, I guess the frictional losses though the 4wd might start causing some noticeable drag at high road speeds though?

S3: 0.335 Drag Coefficient, 2.06m^3 Frontal Area, CdA = 0.69
M3: 0.330 Drag Coefficient, 2.09m^3 Frontal Area, CdA = 0.69


(Figures all taken from Carfolio.com, not sure on accuracy but it's always been good for me in the past)
 
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RobinJI said:
e37 Z-coupe: 1450kg, 370bhp = 218.6bhp/ton, 0-100kph = 5.4 seconds, standing km = 24.4 seconds
e46 M3 (2000): 1570kg, 338bhp = 215.3bhp/ton, 0-100kph = 5.2 seconds, standing km = 23.7 seconds

Z-coupe's better power/weight, but the M3's slipperier. (drag coefficients of 0.37 and 0.33 respectively)

S3 (2002): 1423kg, 221bhp = 155.3bhp/ton, 0-100kph = 6.6 seconds, standing km = ?


Aero wise the A3's actually very evenly matched to the M3, no real aerodynamic reason the M3 would get away more at high speed, I guess the frictional losses though the 4wd might start causing some noticeable drag at high road speeds though?

S3: 0.335 Drag Coefficient, 2.06m^3 Frontal Area, CdA = 0.69
M3: 0.330 Drag Coefficient, 2.09m^3 Frontal Area, CdA = 0.69


(Figures all taken from Carfolio.com, not sure on accuracy but it's always been good for me in the past)
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In this it says the z coupe has 370bhp that ain't right
 
RobinJI said:
Yeah, that was just a typo on my part, meant to write 317bhp, not 370bhp.
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haha sound I was thinking surely not got that power as he would have wasted me lol.dont look like their is much of a difference between then z3m coupe and e46 m3
 
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