Are these worth doing?

[A3 T]

There's a couple of mods I've been putting off for a while now because in the back of my mind there's something telling me I'm not going to gain anything by doing them.

The first one is a silicone TIP.....

Do you really gain anything by fitting one or is it just a good upgrade to the standard one because its less likely to fall apart or leak like all the other hoses in these cars?



The second one is a 3” downpipe....


Do you gain anything by fitting one of these if you still have a standard exhaust?

 

[Dan-Jnr]

I fitted a Badger 5 TIP and Jetex filter and increased my air flow, and better induction sound.

 

[A3 T]

I fitted a Badger 5 TIP and Jetex filter and increased my air flow, and better induction sound.

I've got an A3 mate so no badger 5 for me.

 

[A3-Lee]

I have a a3 1.8t agu I have a 3 inch decat down pipe an this probably was one of the best bang per buck mod I've ever done defiantly pulled a lot better also I have a tip and apexi cone filter not sure wether these made any gains other than sound but it seems a worth while mod

 

[MIGGZ]

1st mods I did was decat, 3" down pipe, from there the car revved easier and had a lot more power from down low thru power band, next was induction (filter) and tip, instantly spool was quicker and smoother, and it had a nice sound to it to! I would highly recommend those mods!

 

[16Klappe]

There's a couple of mods I've been putting off for a while now because in the back of my mind there's something telling me I'm not going to gain anything by doing them.

The first one is a silicone TIP.....

Do you really gain anything by fitting one or is it just a good upgrade to the standard one because its less likely to fall apart or leak like all the other hoses in these cars?



The second one is a 3” downpipe....


Do you gain anything by fitting one of these if you still have a standard exhaust?

Silicone TIP and downpipe and decat are really stage 2 mods, unless you're going to take your car to the next stage I wouldn't bother. I'd spend money on sorting the suspension and upgrading the brakes to 312's.

Fitting a TIP does remove restriction from the intake, and it looks pimp. You will find that the car spools a little quicker, but no real increase in power to be had until you get to stage 2.

With the downpipe and decat it does make a difference on spool up, and the car will rev a little more freely. But again you will only see real benefit from this when you get to stage 2, the free flowing exhaust will keep EGT's down and allow for lots of boost lots of the time.

The restriction on the stock is rather large, here's the difference -

 

[Prawn]

Silicone TIP and downpipe and decat are really stage 2 mods, unless you're going to take your car to the next stage I wouldn't bother.


With the downpipe and decat it does make a difference on spool up, and the car will rev a little more freely. But again you will only see real benefit from this when you get to stage 2.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't trawl the internet looking for chances to shoot you down, but I'd have to disagree on this one dude.

On a totally stock engine, I made 205bhp from my stage 1 R-tech Gen 4 map. perfectly decent healthy st1 results for a stock car.

Adding a jetex filter, a £40 ebay TIP and a 3'' DP/Decat to the standard exhaust saw me make 224bhp on the same stage 1 map. The difference was HUGE.

Absolutely definitely, if you have an AUM, get a downpipe on there, even if you don't plan to go to stage 2 at any point.

 

[16Klappe]

Contrary to popular belief, I don't trawl the internet looking for chances to shoot you down, but I'd have to disagree on this one dude.

On a totally stock engine, I made 205bhp from my stage 1 R-tech Gen 4 map. perfectly decent healthy st1 results for a stock car.

Adding a jetex filter, a £40 ebay TIP and a 3'' DP/Decat to the standard exhaust saw me make 224bhp on the same stage 1 map. The difference was HUGE.

Absolutely definitely, if you have an AUM, get a downpipe on there, even if you don't plan to go to stage 2 at any point.

Don't listen to Prawn, he's got pubes for hair.

 

[paultownsend]

On a totally stock engine, I made 205bhp from my stage 1 R-tech Gen 4 map. perfectly decent healthy st1 results for a stock car.

Adding a jetex filter, a £40 ebay TIP and a 3'' DP/Decat to the standard exhaust saw me make 224bhp on the same stage 1 map. The difference was HUGE.

Absolutely definitely, if you have an AUM, get a downpipe on there, even if you don't plan to go to stage 2 at any point.

Prawn. Was this with an AGU? and what intercooler were you using?

 

[16Klappe]

Prawn. Was this with an AGU? and what intercooler were you using?

It was an AUM with a standard intercooler, R Tech map on Badger 5's rollers.

 

[16Klappe]

Anyway Prawn, my main point for saying it isn't worth it is that for most people the hassle of having a totally illegal car and having to do dogdy MOT's far outweighs the benefit of having a DP and decat.

You know I'm not stupid, I was there with you when your car made that power on a stage one. And I've fitted 3" downpipes to both of my A3's.

But unless you're dedicated to getting up to stage 2 and need it I just don't think it's worth the MOT hassle for the gain.

 

[Prawn]

It is worth it IMO. totally
You've always had cars with them on, so lack before/after experience mate.

Trust me, it's hugely worth it.

 

[MIGGZ]

+1 I say do it!!!! We don't have MOT issues like you guys, but with tip, dp, de-cat, induction and unitronic 1+ I got 186whp and 364nm

 

[16Klappe]

It is worth it IMO. totally
You've always had cars with them on, so lack before/after experience mate.

Trust me, it's hugely worth it.

You're a forgetful badger.

A3 didn't have a downpipe on it, then I fitted it.

When I bought the last one it had the standard downpipe on it and a stage 2 map and I fitted the downpipe and decat when I did the manifold studs.

x

 

[paultownsend]

magnaflow 200cell 3" sports cats are only £90 or so. would this combined with a 3"dp be the best combination?

 

[16Klappe]

magnaflow 200cell 3" sports cats are only £90 or so. would this combined with a 3"dp be the best combination?

I would say yes, Prawn will say no.

The choice is yours, the sports cat is an expensive way around it but when combined with a 3" DP I think it would be the best combination. Despite running a DP and decat myself.

 

[JudderMan]

Just joining in here, although my mods are waiting until after Feb when my MOT is due...and it's snowing here so I'm not really looking at going faster ATM : when would you guys fit a FMIC before, at the same time or after the mods listed above? Although it might not warrant it I'd like to have the security of the intake charge being nicely chilled.

I've been reading and reading but seeing as this thread would be handy for 8L owners a price list of the above mentioned parts would be awesome and good for those searching for tuning parts.

Decat
Downpipe
Induction kit or just filter
TIP
Custom map (hate the "stage" 1,2,3ness of it all)
Bailey/Forge dump valve
FMIC - £200 eBay

I'll amend this as and when I find the best prices, currently just creating a shopping list for myself

 

[16Klappe]

Just joining in here, although my mods are waiting until after Feb when my MOT is due...and it's snowing here so I'm not really looking at going faster ATM : when would you guys fit a FMIC before, at the same time or after the mods listed above? Although it might not warrant it I'd like to have the security of the intake charge being nicely chilled.

I've been reading and reading but seeing as this thread would be handy for 8L owners a price list of the above mentioned parts would be awesome and good for those searching for tuning parts.

Decat
Downpipe
Induction kit or just filter
TIP
Custom map (hate the "stage" 1,2,3ness of it all)
Bailey/Forge dump valve
FMIC - £200 eBay

I'll amend this as and when I find the best prices, currently just creating a shopping list for myself

Get your map done by Niki at R Tech in Hinkley, you've also got Bill at Badger 5 but he is a long drive for you.

Fit the FMIC after the mods we have mentioned.

Here's a guide I wrote for another bloke with the order he should be looking to mod his car, his was an AGU with a K03 so if yours is an AUM just skip the installing a K03s and up the stage 1 figure to 215bhp+/-.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/169074-good-bad-idea.html#post1683263

Depends on the spec you want to go for; there is no safe/not safe limit for engines. However with an AGU you are internally at a benefit from an AUM due to the large port head allowing better flow and the larger gudgeon pins on the little ends. For a K03 fitment turbo you will not need to do any internal modifications; for me a K03s can offer more than enough for an A3.

In my opinion (which is not shared by everybody, but who cares because I'm right) a good stage 2 A3 is as good as it gets. A safe and reliable 240bhp in a fairly decent FWD chassis.

The basic list of modifications would go:

S3 312mm brake upgrade (piece of ****, new carriers and new discs. Job done)
Forge 007p DV.
Jetex filter (off Bill at Badger 5).
Powerflex dogbone lower engine mount.

Stage 1 map = 190bhp and a fairly decent power curve.

K03s turbo.
3" downpipe and decat.
Silicone turbo intake pipe.
Front mount intercooler.
Eibach rear anti roll bar kit.
N249 bypass and PCV delete.
Yellow DV spring.
G60 flywheel and VR6 clutch upgrade.
Half decent rear section of the exhaust/backbox.
Half decent set of coilovers, personally I suggest Weitec.

Stage 2 map and 230bhp. If you can be ***** to throw a Forge wastegate actuator on there you can expect a bit more power across the range.

There are a couple of other tricks you can go, such as a VR6 MAF, WMI and large injectors to get the power up a little. But that's not exactly mainstream tuning and most people go for a hybrid turbo before they get to this stage. It IS possible to get 250bhp out of a K03s; but for the same cost you could get 270bhp out of a hybrid.

There is much more than the engine to stage tuning, IMO a stage 2 car is as much about the suspension and chassis upgrades as it is the go faster bit. So just remember everything has to be balanced and work together.

That should be all you need to be honest. Just make sure the car is properly serviced and up to scratch mechanically.

 

[paultownsend]

I would say yes, Prawn will say no.

The choice is yours, the sports cat is an expensive way around it but when combined with a 3" DP I think it would be the best combination. Despite running a DP and decat myself.

Come MOT time it's just easier to guarantee it passes with a cat. Looking at that DP picture posted above its that that's the biggest restriction! Christ there's a difference in those two pictures!

been googling the magnaflow cats. Used on 6litre hot rods in American and also popular on v10 M5's. seem to flow enough! 42draft use them in their systems too. Which are popular over the pond.

For just over £200 using the turborevs DP you can build something half the price of a Milltek. And hopefully not half the quality!

 

[16Klappe]

Come MOT time it's just easier to guarantee it passes with a cat. Looking at that DP picture posted above its that that's the biggest restriction! Christ there's a difference in those two pictures!

been googling the magnaflow cats. Used on 6litre hot rods in American and also popular on v10 M5's. seem to flow enough! 42draft use them in their systems too. Which are popular over the pond.

For just over £200 using the turborevs DP you can build something half the price of a Milltek. And hopefully not half the quality!

Do it, make it nice and post pictures for us

It's SUCH a hassle getting hooky MOT's, IMO it isn't worth the hassle it could cause you if things went tits up and the hassle it will cause you getting a ticket on it.

 

[JudderMan]

Cheers buddy, that is ideal. I think mine is an AGU (2000 X Reg) but not 100% (lame I know).

Anything around 200-215 bhp will be good. Unless the turbo goes I'll be sticking with the standard one. Just looking at giving it a little more go. TBH I'm tempted to keep it fairly standard and go down the track car route in the future with a different one. Missed an A3 quattro (not S3) before I bought mine after 40 minutes of the advert going up It will be R Tech for mapping as I'm up and down to London a fair bit over the next few months. Although I do have Eclipse Performance in Sunderland I can go to which my mate reckons is OK....I don't have much confidence in any one from Sunderland though .

As mentioned, first things first is getting the MOT sorted early next year and I'm going to give it a full fluid change, brakes, suspension and double check it's sound for turning up the power from April onwards. I've always done brakes + suspension before any mods. A good friend of mine runs a garage and speciliases in VAG engines (he has an S3) so I have a good team behind me if I **** anything up.

Thanks for your help again, and didn't meant to thread jack just trying to add to it.

 

[16Klappe]

Sorry to say you will never break 200bhp with the stock K03 You can max a K03 without much effort at all, and you won't be getting much reward for your hard earned modifications with a K03. For the sake of a £150-£200 direct fitment upgrade you'd be mad to stick with it.

K03s or K04001 is a direct replacement (assuming you have a silicone TIP for the K04001) for your turbo, and will give you much more power. K03s's are proven to flow 262bhp with WMI, and K04001's have made 270bhp+ with WMI. They're just updated and more efficient versions of what you've got now

Don't skimp on the mapping, Niki at R Tech is unquestionably the best software tuner in the game. He's got better figures than any other tuner can when it comes to his software mapping and has got an excellent reputation.

AGU is a great place to start, being large port and strongly built. No MAP sensor either so no need to faff about when fitting the FMIC and their ECU's are nice and dumb. Good luck!

 

[JudderMan]

Understood If the turbo has any play or pops then I might go K03s and crack the 200 barrier but TBH 190 would be good and I will invest in coilovers sometime. I've always preferred handling over outright speed anyway. I had so much fun in my 85bhp mk2 Escort at relatively low speeds. As I said, I've been thinking of getting another for the track as the one I have is a bit too clean to strip down to its undies.

Thanks again for your help, you've helped me tighten up my focus on what to do with it. I have been searching and searching for the past week or so but it's good to get clarification for my own personal need.

 

[A3 T]

Thanks for all the replies


So am i right in thinking that the TIP on its own is just engine bling ?

Although looking at this thread there is a big difference in size:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/91024-fao-silicone-tip-owners.html#post924507


I didn't even think about what a pain in the a** it would be come mot time with the decat....lol

, a £40 ebay TIP

Was that second hand as I've not seen them that cheap for the AUM engine

 

[16Klappe]

Thanks for all the replies


So am i right in thinking that the TIP on its own is just engine bling ?

Although looking at this thread there is a big difference in size:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/91024-fao-silicone-tip-owners.html#post924507


I didn't even think about what a pain in the a** it would be come mot time with the decat....lol





Was that second hand as I've not seen them that cheap for the AUM engine

The TIP is worth doing if you have got time and money to do it, it really helps to smooth out the power delivery and does remove a bottleneck in the standard TIP.

GOLF BORA AUDI TT SILICONE INTAKE TIP HOSE VAG 1.8T Blue | eBay

They can be had for £40/50 used, but to be honest just buy a new one. It's double the money but they are hardly expensive.

Your sig says your car is already stage 1 mapped, so it will make gains from adding these parts.

 

[A3 T]

The TIP is worth doing if you have got time and money to do it, it really helps to smooth out the power delivery and does remove a bottleneck in the standard TIP.

GOLF BORA AUDI TT SILICONE INTAKE TIP HOSE VAG 1.8T Blue | eBay

They can be had for £40/50 used, but to be honest just buy a new one. It's double the money but they are hardly expensive.

Your sig says your car is already stage 1 mapped, so it will make gains from adding these parts.

Thanks mate.

Yeah I'm on stage one with no real plans of going to stage two (i bet everyone on stage two said that).

I'm starting to think against the DP now (unless i can get hold of a cheap sports cat) as it will be a pain come mot day.


Is the tip still worth doing without the DP ?

EDIT:

Just found this on ebay:

AUDI TT 180 SILICONE AIR INTAKE PIPE BLUE AWU/AWP/AWD/AWW/AUQ/AUM/APP | eBay

 

[16Klappe]

Yeah throw a TIP on it, it'll help.

For what it costs to do anybody who has a stage 2 K03s is a mug IMO, myself included.

K04 setups are under £500 and for the same amount of work you can have 30bhp more with less stress on the turbo, so if you ever think you're going to want more than 220bhp then stop your spending at the TIP and save for a K04.

IMO.

 

[paultownsend]

The thing that confuses me about a k04 on AGU is having to move the TB.
Do you have to use the k04 charge pipe? If so you have to move the TB. Which means using a small port inlet. And knocking something up for the TB cable.

 

[16Klappe]

The thing that confuses me about a k04 on AGU is having to move the TB.
Do you have to use the k04 charge pipe? If so you have to move the TB. Which means using a small port inlet. And knocking something up for the TB cable.

If you want to keep the engine layout the same one of Beechbuggy's K03 hybrids will flow pretty much what a K04 will if you use meth. Still good for 270/280bhp, but you will need S3/LCR injectors, 80mm MAF and a K04 TIP which will make it more than a standard complete k04 setup.

If you have meth then a £200 toyosport ebay intercooler is up to the job, if you don't have a fmic alread then best to go with a wellycooler.

 

[A3 T]

Yeah throw a TIP on it, it'll help.

For what it costs to do anybody who has a stage 2 K03s is a mug IMO, myself included.

K04 setups are under £500 and for the same amount of work you can have 30bhp more with less stress on the turbo, so if you ever think you're going to want more than 220bhp then stop your spending at the TIP and save for a K04.

IMO.

Thanks mate