What's the standard boost on a 2.0TFSi

Scott.T

Scott.T

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What the standard peak and held boost level on a 2.0TFSI.
I assume it peaks around 3,500rpm and tails off towards the redline.

What level of boost do the regular stage 1 remaps (ie AMD etc...) run it up to, and what's the max avaialable from the standrd turbo / injectors

What's the easiest boost/vacum hoes to 'T' a gauge into ?

What turbo do I have as standard

What AFR do they run at peak torque and redline WOT.

Sorry for all the questions & Many Thanks
 
It's the weekend - give people a chance to reply.
 
Scott.T said:
What the standard peak and held boost level on a 2.0TFSI.
I assume it peaks around 3,500rpm and tails off towards the redline.

What level of boost do the regular stage 1 remaps (ie AMD etc...) run it up to, and what's the max avaialable from the standrd turbo / injectors

What's the easiest boost/vacum hoes to 'T' a gauge into ?

What turbo do I have as standard

What AFR do they run at peak torque and redline WOT.

Sorry for all the questions & Many Thanks
Click to expand...

hi mate, can answer a couple of questions you've asked. The standard turbo is a ko3s, apparently with the standard turbo you can achieve around 280 bhp (ish). Others may be more precise. If you want more than this then you need to look at a k04 conversion. Check the full threads from Solaris and bez, they have been very helpfull when it comes to the more technical questions.as for the gauge, from standard I'm not sure how to connect, but with the forge diverter/blow off valve, you can tap straight into the vacuum pipe for your gauge. I also found this performs much better on a warmer day than standard.

The rest I'm afraid I have idea lol! Hope this helps :)
 
Hi Scott,


They run around 0.7 bar as standard, peak comes in just over 2k if you load it up low enough in a high gear. I can dig out the curve if needed.


Typical stage 1 boost is around 1.2 bar but varies from map to map. The turbo will flow around 280bhp as pointed out above. Injector flow depends on the high pressure fuel pump. As standard they run AFR of 14:1 on WOT until they get hot and then enrichment kicks in.


Thanks, Rick
 
This is interesting reading, I don't think I've seen a stage 1 map offer over 240bhp never mind 280! Are you suggesting any supporting mods?

I have a special edition tfsi so 220bhp standard - I often feel a little more would be nice and have considered a Revo trial but not followed it up - people say Revo is aggressive - I'm after progressive.

Any thoughts?

Chris
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Hi Scott,


They run around 0.7 bar as standard, peak comes in just over 2k if you load it up low enough in a high gear. I can dig out the curve if needed.


Typical stage 1 boost is around 1.2 bar but varies from map to map. The turbo will flow around 280bhp as pointed out above. Injector flow depends on the high pressure fuel pump. As standard they run AFR of 14:1 on WOT until they get hot and then enrichment kicks in.


Thanks, Rick
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Rick and WOW !!!! 14.1 no wonder their more economical then my scooby.
You mention enrichment kicks in when they get got, what does it then richen up too ?
I assume this is triggered by increases of EGT or Intake Temps.

The Scoobies run 14.7 stoich until around 3,000rpm or until achieving positive boost, then richen up to (in most cases) gradually to under 11 AFR OE map or 11.2 - 11.5AFR remapped (maybe as lean as 12 AFR on a built motor).

I would like to have a play on the Audi, as have been mapping Impreza's on/off for years. But there doesn't seem to be any good opensource tools for Audi. The definition files (assuming they are correct) I have seen look very different to what I am used to. I assume its a much more intelligent system than that used on the old flat 4 boxer.

Thanks again for your response.
 
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Chris79 said:
This is interesting reading, I don't think I've seen a stage 1 map offer over 240bhp never mind 280! Are you suggesting any supporting mods?

I have a special edition tfsi so 220bhp standard - I often feel a little more would be nice and have considered a Revo trial but not followed it up - people say Revo is aggressive - I'm after progressive.

Any thoughts?

Chris
Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

280 is with the turbo on its knees, with a full non cat turbo back exhaust, it isn't a stage 1 map :)

Rick
 
Scott.T said:
Thanks for the reply Rick and WOW !!!! 14.1 no wonder their more economical then my scooby.
You mention enrichment kicks in when they get got, what does it then richen up too ?
I assume this is triggered by increases of EGT or Intake Temps.

The Scoobies run 14.7 stoich until around 3,000rpm or until achieving positive boost, then richen up to (in most cases) gradually to under 11 AFR OE map or 11.2 - 11.5AFR remapped (maybe as lean as 12 AFR on a built motor).

I would like to have a play on the Audi, as have been mapping Impreza's on/off for years. But there doesn't seem to be any good opensource tools for Audi. The definition files (assuming they are correct) I have seen look very different to what I am used to. I assume its a much more intelligent system than that used on the old flat 4 boxer.

Thanks again for your response.
Click to expand...

Hi Scott, the enrichment is triggered primarily by a modelled EGT temp. Further enrichment can be triggered by the EGT sensors. When remapped, the AFR is closer to the Scooby values you are used to. The Bosch ECU used on the Audi is hugely complicated, massively more so than anything out of Japan. Bosch invented the ECU and they are just massively ahead when it comes to development. This does make them difficult to understand and map initially, but they are great once you have devoted thousands of hours to them!

Rick
 
you need something like this for boost gauge
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Hi Chris,

280 is with the turbo on its knees, with a full non cat turbo back exhaust, it isn't a stage 1 map :)

Rick
Click to expand...

Wishfull thinking on my part!

I too had an Impreza, it was live mapped with me driving to ensure I got the exact map I wanted. Fast forward to my first A4 2.5 TDi and I bought a map - was massivly dissapointed! It was tweeked twice by the supplier and we nearly cracked it then the car was written off....

I haven't dared venture to mapping again - costs are very high - double my live map cost at £499 for a Revo and its not custom! I was tempted by the trial but it seems to be unavaliable and the 30 day money back guarantee - well, have you tried getting £500 back from anyone!

Chris
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Hi Scott, the enrichment is triggered primarily by a modelled EGT temp. Further enrichment can be triggered by the EGT sensors. When remapped, the AFR is closer to the Scooby values you are used to. The Bosch ECU used on the Audi is hugely complicated, massively more so than anything out of Japan. Bosch invented the ECU and they are just massively ahead when it comes to development. This does make them difficult to understand and map initially, but they are great once you have devoted thousands of hours to them!

Rick
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional information Rick.
I assume then that the fuel economy takes a bit of a dive after a remap. Unlike the Subaru's where they actually get a bit more economical (except when driven hard), as they run quite rich as standard so get leaned out in the midrange and top end during a remap.

Interesting what you say about the Bosch ECU. Are all B7 running Bosch as I notice it uses a Hitachi MAF ?
 
Chris79 said:
Wishfull thinking on my part!

I too had an Impreza, it was live mapped with me driving to ensure I got the exact map I wanted.
Chris
Click to expand...

Who mapped your Impreza then Chris, as I may know them or know of them.
I was doing it as a commercial part time business for about 3 years. But primary work and family commitments caused me to stop. I now only do my own (still have a Scooby) or close friends.

I've only has the Audi 2 weeks, so early days and just getting to know what and where all the sensors are first.
 
Hi Scott, you will know of him - Simon Roe. We achieved fantastic results.

I have an Impreza in the garage too, not that it runs! I bought a rolling shell and have been reassembling for the last year.

Chris
 
Like I said in the post, others may be more precise. Wasn't sure on exact power gains. If I was wasting my money on remapping the standard set up, I would be wanting atleast 280, otherwise I would be going k04. ( I have a k04 on eBay by the way) considering my mates golf gti is running 280 with a ko3s I would say it is achievable with the right map, and as for the turbo on its knees.... It's been going sound for a year with no engine or turbo failure yet.
 
Hi Scott,

The fuel economy doesn't really change. It will be worse if you are using the power, but normal driving won't as it only enriches on full boost. Part throttle it will stay at 14.7:1. On a std car it will enrich if you accelerate through the gears - often more than it needs to - , but for short stints it won't.

All B7's use Bosch ECU's apart from 170 Diesels which use Siemens. You can have both Hitachi and Bosch MAF's on a Bosch ECU.

Rick

Scott.T said:
Thanks for the additional information Rick.
I assume then that the fuel economy takes a bit of a dive after a remap. Unlike the Subaru's where they actually get a bit more economical (except when driven hard), as they run quite rich as standard so get leaned out in the midrange and top end during a remap.

Interesting what you say about the Bosch ECU. Are all B7 running Bosch as I notice it uses a Hitachi MAF ?
Click to expand...
 
Chris79 said:
Wishfull thinking on my part!

I too had an Impreza, it was live mapped with me driving to ensure I got the exact map I wanted. Fast forward to my first A4 2.5 TDi and I bought a map - was massivly dissapointed! It was tweeked twice by the supplier and we nearly cracked it then the car was written off....

I haven't dared venture to mapping again - costs are very high - double my live map cost at £499 for a Revo and its not custom! I was tempted by the trial but it seems to be unavaliable and the 30 day money back guarantee - well, have you tried getting £500 back from anyone!

Chris
Click to expand...

Hi Chris, custom maps for the TFSI are £400 from myself.

In terms of trial, I am working on something myself for the future, but in the mean time for a forum member I would be happy to map the car and you drive it for a week to see if you are happy, with payment after this period.

Thanks, Rick
 
Chris79 said:
Hi Scott, you will know of him - Simon Roe. We achieved fantastic results.

I have an Impreza in the garage too, not that it runs! I bought a rolling shell and have been reassembling for the last year.

Chris
Click to expand...

Yep, I know Simon quite well as we used to work at the same engineering firm a few years back.
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
All B7's use Bosch ECU's apart from 170 Diesels which use Siemens. You can have both Hitachi and Bosch MAF's on a Bosch ECU.

Rick
Click to expand...

Do you have to stick with a Bosch Lambda if it's using a Bosch one and Hitachi if using Hitachi or can you interchange them.
Reason for asking is I'm chasing a misfire and am changing the MAF (currently on a Hitachi)
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Hi Chris, custom maps for the TFSI are £400 from myself.

In terms of trial, I am working on something myself for the future, but in the mean time for a forum member I would be happy to map the car and you drive it for a week to see if you are happy, with payment after this period.

Thanks, Rick
Click to expand...

Seems fair Rick!

Maybe after Christmas.

Chris
 
Scott.T said:
Do you have to stick with a Bosch Lambda if it's using a Bosch one and Hitachi if using Hitachi or can you interchange them.
Reason for asking is I'm chasing a misfire and am changing the MAF (currently on a Hitachi)
Click to expand...

Usually, yes as Bosch/Hitachi are OE suppliers which means they don't often make an after market version of the others if that makes sense! Regarding the missfire, it's unlikely to be a MAF. Can you capture the missfire in a log? When does it do it?

Rick
 
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Regarding the missfire, it's unlikely to be a MAF. Can you capture the missfire in a log? When does it do it?

Rick
Click to expand...

Very light throttle, almost no throttle most noticable around 1700rpm - 2200rpm.
A touch more throttle and it clears, the same with a touch less throttle.
Almost no deflection in revs or throttle angle and it clears.

If you hold the throttle in the same postion but at slightly higher revs i.e around 2800rpm you can still induce the missfire.

WOT from 1200rpm will drive right through dead smooth.
Likewise if it is sitting at 2,000rpm and missfiring, a WOT or any more throttle from then and it pulls strong right through rev range.

Plugs that came out were all the same colour, maybe a touch dark for something that runs so much at 14AFR, coil packs also new (missfire was present prior to both these changes)
 
They are definitely worth remapping, but go the full hog and go stage 2 as it makes a massive difference to the car. More cost obviously but with a new exhaust and filter you also get a much nicer noise to go with the power :)
 
OK, from measurements I have taken the car's reading approx 11psi (0.75bar) peak dropping to 6psi (0.4bar).
The peak at 11psi comes in very early and soon tails off.
 
Scott.T:1706972 said:
Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. said:
Regarding the missfire, it's unlikely to be a MAF. Can you capture the missfire in a log? When does it do it?

Rick
Click to expand...

Very light throttle, almost no throttle most noticable around 1700rpm - 2200rpm.
A touch more throttle and it clears, the same with a touch less throttle.
Almost no deflection in revs or throttle angle and it clears.

If you hold the throttle in the same postion but at slightly higher revs i.e around 2800rpm you can still induce the missfire.

WOT from 1200rpm will drive right through dead smooth.
Likewise if it is sitting at 2,000rpm and missfiring, a WOT or any more throttle from then and it pulls strong right through rev range.

Plugs that came out were all the same colour, maybe a touch dark for something that runs so much at 14AFR, coil packs also new (missfire was present prior to both these changes)
Click to expand...

I have the same issues never tracked it down just learnt to live with it! If u track it down let me know mate!
 
I looked into a revo re-map at Clev atthowes in norwich and it should take my 220bhp se a4 to around 265 !
 
That's what they said?which bolt ons would I need ?whsts the difference between 197 and 220 bhp models is it just the boost pressure?
 
A few people have seen more with just a map in the past? I forget the members name but he had a remap by pendale performance and had a rr graph showing just over 270 if I remember correctly?
 
What does a Stage one run, would be good to see if any maps run much different.
My guess is 1.2bar ow end and 1bar top end.

What does the BlueFin run Vs' the others ?
 
Scott.T:1723176 said:
What does a Stage one run, would be good to see if any maps run much different.
My guess is 1.2bar ow end and 1bar top end.

What does the BlueFin run Vs' the others ?
Click to expand...

Mines stage one not sure in bar but it's peaking around 15.5 psi on a cold day? That's using torque android app on my phone
 
cheers Marrow.
What does it hold to the redline as the standard levels are so low their hardly worth having at about 5 psi.
 
Old thread, but TFSI doesn't run 14.7 AFR at WOT. 2.0TFSI 200hp 'AXX' Lambda 0.9532 until 4520RPM where it requests 0.9063. BTS usually kicks in around 3000RPM giving around 0.7 lambda to redline (0.7891 down to 0.7110). The second Component Protection (BTS) map drops right down to 0.6407 Lambda which is very RICH for standard software, to protect the engine under load.

Only real way to see exact AFR is to connect VCDS and log requested vs actual lambda. MED9.1 is already wideband (same sensor as innovate LSU4.2, I have been told), so you can trust the fuel read with datalogging.


They also don't have EGT sensor. There is no way to monitor EGT through OBD, no probe fitted as standard. Some older 1.8T have though ;)
 
Ahh, Rick write.. ''The fuel economy doesn't really change. It will be worse if you are using the power, but normal driving won't as it only enriches on full boost. Part throttle it will stay at 14.7:1''


This is true for pt throttle (driver request) to certain RPM. Under 50% throttle it should keep lambda 1.0 (approx 14.7.1 AFR)
 
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