Hybrid K04 R&D

Hold on, how come your names first dave? Are we doing it oldest first or sumet? :) haha.
 
Hello Dan,

Think you might have found what was limiting to 275 -276g/s.

As you stated I have just set MLMAX to 1080 done a quick log up my driveway and guess what......Now I have hit 280.25g/s at 6800rpm, not bad for a hybrid!!!

You must have more to be had with your setup

Cheers
 
Only joking dani lad....

I would def be up for one though, this is certainly excellent R&D and pushing the boundary's...Well done to Dan for having the balls to do it....it could have smashed the engine to pieces...
 
Barks said:
Hello Dan,

Think you might have found what was limiting to 275 -276g/s.

As you stated I have just set MLMAX to 1080 done a quick log up my driveway and guess what......Now I have hit 280.25g/s at 6800rpm, not bad for a hybrid!!!

You must have more to be had with your setup

Cheers
Click to expand...
What spec Hybrid???
 
seriously, you went up to 280 by just raising MLMAX? that's very good. Can you do me a favour and see what happens when you set KFWDKSMX to 100 for all points on 1750rpm and above. It wont help with grams of MAF but may help with spool..
 
Well if I can hit 292grams.. then I will be happy. Going to do a full run tomorrow to see what happens> I've still not done anything with timing yet, so that will be next at least to get some CF's just so I'm in the right ball park...
 
beachbuggy said:
seriously, you went up to 280 by just raising MLMAX? that's very good. Can you do me a favour and see what happens when you set KFWDKSMX to 100 for all points on 1750rpm and above. It wont help with grams of MAF but may help with spool..
Click to expand...

Seriously, 3 good 3rd gear logs, peaked at 280, usually 279, thank you!! Wonder what other hidden limits there are, (Engine Load).

I will try KFWDKSMX tomorrow...and will let you know.

Thanks again
 
s3dave said:
Wow is this with WMI?
Click to expand...

Nope just powered by hot hot heat!!!!!

That is with a AEB head, V1 K04 TIP, homebrew AGU/APY large port manifold (thanks for the welding Bill and I will post some photos on a different thread for those that are interested) and currently a Franken Manifold.....

Will be interesting to see what Dan can get out of his new creation!!!
 
beachbuggy said:
Well if I can hit 292grams.. then I will be happy. Going to do a full run tomorrow to see what happens> I've still not done anything with timing yet, so that will be next at least to get some CF's just so I'm in the right ball park...
Click to expand...

Watching very very closely
 
Barks said:
Nope just powered by hot hot heat!!!!!

That is with a AEB head, V1 K04 TIP, homebrew AGU/APY large port manifold (thanks for the welding Bill and I will post some photos on a different thread for those that are interested) and currently a Franken Manifold.....
Click to expand...
Almost identical to my set up inc franken mani/2283 non clipped,AGU Head, B5 v3, large plenum intake,, im no where near that....:3sadwalk:
 
Barks said:
Hello, whats up with the 275 - 276 g/s limit?? Speedy Steve has had it, Dan is seeing it currently, I am currently seeing it before and after fitting a homebrew large port manifold?? Bit strange that they are all this exact value, just a thought
Click to expand...

Actually I have to agree. There is definitely some kind of a wall at that exact number. I've seen it too. My guess is it must be a specific voltage where the sensor "hangs" a bit. So the ECU loiters around that number until airflows continue rising enough to get the thing to "snap out of it".

If any of you guys feel this sounds hair brained, I can live with that.
 
slappy_dunbar said:
Actually I have to agree. There is definitely some kind of a wall at that exact number. I've seen it too. My guess is it must be a specific voltage where the sensor "hangs" a bit. So the ECU loiters around that number until airflows continue rising enough to get the thing to "snap out of it".

If any of you guys feel this sounds hair brained, I can live with that.
Click to expand...
stock mlmax on yours doug?
 
Top work Dan, REALLY looking forward to seeing if this will convert into BHP.

I remember speedy steves back in 2010 was flowing 275g/s on the MAF, yet it would only make 314bhp on the dyno.

Be great to see what yours is pushing
 
Done my bit for voting. It's a great feeling; love of country and all. But I must say the voting process is really disappointing. They just give you a piece of paper that looks EXACTLY like those combination menu/placemat things you get at a cheap-o diner. You don't even get a booth anymore. They just stick your placemat into a scanner thingy and it's over. Sad, just sad.

Anyway, with a stout 13psi preload on the actuator you should definitely be seeing 260+ g/s. Email me if you think I can help.
 
you all need to stop talking in none coatesy terms.... grams is for cooking ..

i want to know the real deal answers! is it fast? when can i have one ? ko3 fitment? some one give me all the stuff i need to fit it, since it wont be available in k03 fitment? last question .. some one give me an s3 to apply this stuff to...



joking aside what does grams covert in to bhp ?
 
s3dave said:
G/S shared by 0.8 = BHP
Click to expand...

hmmmm. not so much on these.. Its still a reasonable guide, but with the uber heat generated, efficiencies plummet and power does'nt track necessarily.
many a time I see awesome airflows, but not the power you would hope to get from them..
 
Prawn said:
Whilst it's not directly relative to your thread, has anyone else seen Niki got 352bhp from a ko4 hybrid today?

Only for a single power run, he said it was running too hot to sustain it, but interesting all the same and shows the hotside 'could' flow those kind of figures.

he reckons it'll end up around a safe 330bhp with WMI, but still interesting in terms of peak numbers seen.
Click to expand...

erm no it shows exactly why the hotside cant............. If chasing a peak one off number, meh...
the 330bhp level is the more realistic level, like we had on wellys long time ago..........
its still a ko4 hotside, much like the lupo's hybrid is limited by its k03 hotside.. it is what it is.
 
multiplying by 1.25 gives the same result and is a bit easier on the brain :p


I wonder if the times when g/sec DOESNT match up well there are other signs of it? For instance lots of timing pull will obviously reduce power output but wouldnt neccesarily cause the airflow to drop by much. Similarly, the fuel mixture going very rich due to EGT protection would have a similar result.

I'd imagine you'll find that in the cases where there is a large discrepancy between g/sec and HP, other logged values will explain why?
 
slappy_dunbar said:
Actually I have to agree. There is definitely some kind of a wall at that exact number. I've seen it too. My guess is it must be a specific voltage where the sensor "hangs" a bit. So the ECU loiters around that number until airflows continue rising enough to get the thing to "snap out of it".

If any of you guys feel this sounds hair brained, I can live with that.
Click to expand...

could well be true.... allowing for the 220 offset that would put 275g/s into the 1190kg/h range which is 4.9121 v
not max'd but headed there
 
badger5 said:
erm no it shows exactly why the hotside cant............. If chasing a peak one off number, meh...
the 330bhp level is the more realistic level, like we had on wellys long time ago..........
its still a ko4 hotside, much like the lupo's hybrid is limited by its k03 hotside.. it is what it is.
Click to expand...

Sorry Bill, I think I put my point across wrongly, it was more intended as a demonstration that the power can be forced from it for pub points, but that despite product development and mapping advances since Wellys, the ~330 figure you got in 2010 is still the safe limit of the hardware.

It seems that you found that limit several years ago, and nothing we can do is going to get anything safely past it. it's been fun trying though!
 
s3dave said:
Almost identical to my set up inc franken mani/2283 non clipped,AGU Head, B5 v3, large plenum intake,, im no where near that....:3sadwalk:
Click to expand...

Dave - I'm going to make a bold statement here that you're not going to like.

Get it mapped properly man. R-tech or Badger 5. Nowhere else is capable or has the in depth knowledge of these setups to extract the best from them.
 
Prawn said:
Dave - I'm going to make a bold statement here that you're not going to like.

Get it mapped properly man. R-tech or Badger 5. Nowhere else is capable or has the in depth knowledge of these setups to extract the best from them.
Click to expand...

Although I do agree with you, this is not a bold statement.

This is a bold statement.
 
Prawn said:
Sorry Bill, I think I put my point across wrongly, it was more intended as a demonstration that the power can be forced from it for pub points, but that despite product development and mapping advances since Wellys, the ~330 figure you got in 2010 is still the safe limit of the hardware.

It seems that you found that limit several years ago, and nothing we can do is going to get anything safely past it. it's been fun trying though!
Click to expand...

We are taking the michael out of the poor little k04 at the end of the day.. lol.. We know the 2283 in its natural environment works with a larger turbine wheel in a larger a/r hotside so the potential on the tfsi k04's is realised..
On wellys we were seeing yellow white manifold glow, which is beyond - owch hot hot hot... lol.... less was more.

With some decent tuners and supporting mods they are realising their potential more frequently now.

If dan can churn these out he should do well with it, decent internals compared to "some others"....
progressive boost, building and sustained with timing seems to be the trick with these... and wmi to assist is strongly advised, 80mm TIP, as is free flowing exhaust mani etc etc etc yady yada bing bong

:arco:
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by s3dave
G/S shared by 0.8 = BHP



badger5 said:
hmmmm. not so much on these.. Its still a reasonable guide, but with the uber heat generated, efficiencies plummet and power does'nt track necessarily.
many a time I see awesome airflows, but not the power you would hope to get from them..
Click to expand...

Just to add, mine previously peaked at 270g/s ish on Bills rollers and made just 300Bhp, hot hot hot
 
Barks said:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by s3dave
G/S shared by 0.8 = BHP





Just to add, mine previously peaked at 270g/s ish on Bills rollers and made just 300Bhp, hot hot hot
Click to expand...

Odd isn't it, 270g/s should equate to 337bhp, so you'd expect somewhere in the 320-330 region at least, but it's just no the case with hybrids.

I think this car will make sunday very interesting indeed!
 
oh yea. I'd trust dyno figures every time over airflow.

I'm keen to see how the airflow relates to power on mine, as I'm currently clipping my MAF on actuator, which would 'suggest' 320bhp or there abouts, but I don't believe it's anywhere near that currently.

Will you be logging during power runs on Sunday Bill like the last time?
 
Prawn said:
I'm keen to see how the airflow relates to power on mine, as I'm currently clipping my MAF on actuator, which would 'suggest' 320bhp or there abouts, but I don't believe it's anywhere near that currently.
Click to expand...

Would you be able to (safely) do a FATs pull? 3rd gear; 4200-6500rpms. I'm assuming you have a 6spd.
 
beachbuggy said:
seriously, you went up to 280 by just raising MLMAX? that's very good. Can you do me a favour and see what happens when you set KFWDKSMX to 100 for all points on 1750rpm and above. It wont help with grams of MAF but may help with spool..
Click to expand...

Hello Dan, set KFWDKSMX to 100 from 1750rpm, didn't seem to make any difference to my setup, (not that I need it to spool any faster!!!) Logs seem very similar. Throttle plate angle are identical but the logs only start @2500rpm

Probaly worth a shot on yours
 
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