v6 camshaft replacement

[bizza25]

hi folks

im thinking of doing the cams and belts in my 2002 a4 v6 bfc engine. engine making fast ticking sound. (especially noticeable when slowing down and passing parked cars or between walls) car is also getting harder to start on colder mornings with some blue smoke (after overnight sit only) i believe worn cams are the reason however no fault codes on vag com suggest misfire etc? car has 150k on it, i've owned past 4 years never any trouble until i noticed this sound about a year ago but its steadly getting worse. it is big expense from quotes ive got so far but wondering if there is anything else should be done when engine is stripped that much?

i have been on ebay and had this deal 320902225235 suggested (camshaft kit and cam belt kit) ..£1100 from germany seems good quality but its big money to spend

anyone know what exactly is needed and what should be done ... or do worn cams suggest wear elsewhere ?
sometimes i get a slight clunk from under the rear ashtray i assume this is the mulittronic box (it is very slight and only sometimes for example leaving a car park space and then taking foot of accelerator or in traffic stop starting and doing no speed at all) box upgraded to plate 7 at 95k serviced at 145k

any suggestions welcome, or anyone ever done this job and regretted not trading the car in for a b7? or would it transform the cars performance, lazy starting and make it safe to put a tuning box on...

 

[bizza25]

anyone ever changed their cams before folks?

 

[kite]

Contact adamss24 (Chris) he has changed a few Cams on the V6 diesel's.

 

[adamss24]

hi folks

im thinking of doing the cams and belts in my 2002 a4 v6 bfc engine. engine making fast ticking sound. (especially noticeable when slowing down and passing parked cars or between walls) car is also getting harder to start on colder mornings with some blue smoke (after overnight sit only) i believe worn cams are the reason however no fault codes on vag com suggest misfire etc? car has 150k on it, i've owned past 4 years never any trouble until i noticed this sound about a year ago but its steadly getting worse. it is big expense from quotes ive got so far but wondering if there is anything else should be done when engine is stripped that much?

i have been on ebay and had this deal 320902225235 suggested (camshaft kit and cam belt kit) ..£1100 from germany seems good quality but its big money to spend

anyone know what exactly is needed and what should be done ... or do worn cams suggest wear elsewhere ?
sometimes i get a slight clunk from under the rear ashtray i assume this is the mulittronic box (it is very slight and only sometimes for example leaving a car park space and then taking foot of accelerator or in traffic stop starting and doing no speed at all) box upgraded to plate 7 at 95k serviced at 145k

any suggestions welcome, or anyone ever done this job and regretted not trading the car in for a b7? or would it transform the cars performance, lazy starting and make it safe to put a tuning box on...

That kit is very good value for money, the camshaft kit on it's own is about £700 ! I used the same parts in rebuilding a few engines with only positive results so far. You'll fall in love again with the car once the job is done + if you stop using Longlife servicing it will last you for the rest of the car's life ! I have worked on high mileage cars 180k + and they had no visible wear on the camshaft lobes- just good old synthetic oil replaced every 6k !
I would lie to you if i tell you that the b7 is more reliable, it does look better though !
As for the tuning box, you'll have no problems with the engine but the gearbox might suffer as it's already close to it's torque limits...if that was a manual gearbox i would not hesitate, i have a BDG 163 Bhp engined audi a4 estate (manual 6 speed gearbox) with a steinbauer tuning box and it's amazing, nearly 200 Bhp and enough torque to stop the earth !

 

[bizza25]

thanks guys

so worn cams would not mean excessive engine wear in cylinders for example?

what bhp would you recon from the 163 multitronic then..anyone ever tuned/mapped a 2.5 multitronic and regretted?... is the the cost V performance/fuel economy worth it?

on the clunk noise i am hearing when stop starting.. im thinking it could be mounts somewhere now! happens with a slight depress accelerator and quickly taking your foot off again (like a jerk motion) sounds seems to be too far back in the car to be the multitronic box ...if it was 4wd you'd think it was the diff.

 

[sorted]

thanks guys

so worn cams would not mean excessive engine wear in cylinders for example?

what bhp would you recon from the 163 multitronic then..anyone ever tuned/mapped a 2.5 multitronic and regretted?... is the the cost V performance/fuel economy worth it?

on the clunk noise i am hearing when stop starting.. im thinking it could be mounts somewhere now! happens with a slight depress accelerator and quickly taking your foot off again (like a jerk motion) sounds seems to be too far back in the car to be the multitronic box ...if it was 4wd you'd think it was the diff.

Hi Mate,

If you take the rocker cover off, you will be able to inspect the cam. I am doing mine the now on a 1.9TDI so these pics might help you. You can see how they wear in the middle and how bad they become if it is the camshaft. You should change the camshaft, lifters and bearings if you do change it.

audi lifers pictures by neilpologti - Photobucket

There is a mount im sure right infront of the radiator, check that, then check the gearbox mount.

 

[bizza25]

thanks man as it is v6 there'll be four cams to inspect but im sure if one needs done they'll all need done. what bearings are you speaking about? bearings in the bottom of the engine? i was told to do shafts, rocker arms, tappets and thrust pads...no mention of bearings!

 

[stu_m]

the cams run on bearings its best to replace them at the same time as the cams

 

[adamss24]

the cams run on bearings its best to replace them at the same time as the cams

Only on the pd engines there's bearings/shells, none on the v6 tdi. As per my previous post, the camshaft kit should have : 4x cams, lifters, rocker arms and trust pads. I would also replace the camshaft seals but the above kit comes already with Victor Reinz ones. Very, very good value for money and i used the seller several times...

 

[stu_m]

Only on the pd engines there's bearings/shells, none on the v6 tdi. As per my previous post, the camshaft kit should have : 4x cams, lifters, rocker arms and trust pads. I would also replace the camshaft seals but the above kit comes already with Victor Reinz ones. Very, very good value for money and i used the seller several times...

Ah I stand corrected!!

I knew the PD engine did so i just assumed the v6 did too!

 

[bizza25]

i have taken the plunge and purchased a cam kit. will advise of results when fitted, im hoping to have the deep v6 sound back again.. !

 

[AlexGSi2000]

Best of luck - Im keeping my fingers crossed that I will never need to have this done, engine is on 122k and seems to be fine - will keep the oil fresh and hopefully Ill get a lot more life from it.

 

[adamss24]

Best of luck - Im keeping my fingers crossed that I will never need to have this done, engine is on 122k and seems to be fine - will keep the oil fresh and hopefully Ill get a lot more life from it.

I have had 2 b6 in the last week with 180k +, none of the Longlife nonsense and the cams were as good as the day they left the factory. Just use good quality synthetic oil and 10k max service intervals and you'll have no trouble whatsoever.
Took the rocker covers off my allroad 2 days ago to replace the injectors with a set fitted with Bosio power plus 683 nozzles, 20k since the rebuild and nothing bad to report. I had a rocker arm fallen off one side but i suspect that happened when i rebuilt the engine and the rocker got spat due to lack of oil pressure. I use a dab of grease to hold them on the lifters so they don't fall when fitting the cams. There was no wear on the rocker/cam lobe and lifter so that happened shortly after install- whilst cranking to build oil pressure before it started.
All in all everything works as it should so if you take your time then you'll have a sweet running motor again...

 

[bizza25]

Folks...ahhhh problems after work done

cam kit and all conitech belt kits done.
all filters, glow plugs and crankcase breather replaced.
oil and antifreeze.
spent £1200 on parts £300 labour. so far a £1500 spend and the car is sick.

took it home when engine already warm, was not majorily impressed with the sound (not 1500quid impressed) yes the fast ticking noise is gone but replaced by a slight belt squeel and im sure it sounds more clackety than a mates v6 passat, his just sounds more tight.

as if that was not a dampner enough a Problem this morning is that it struggles to start amid a plume of white smoke. 10-15 secs of cranking before any sign of life then perfect running, no coughs or splutters. phoned mechanic today who suggested leaving off the temp sensor and trying start again tomorow but i have no fault codes for the temp sensor. when I disconnected sensor and started it earlier (car was still warm) the rad fan will kick in almost immediatly when sensorput back on fan stays off so think this sensor is ok.

thermostat replaced with t/belt and temp gets up to 90 as normal in 10mins or so. car always started within a couple of turns prior to all thsi work so this problem has to be the pump timing? mechanic says no...it was set with computer all ok.

but i recon it has to be work related, ive had car 4 years so you know the way it runs. it did not start anywhere near as bad even at -20 last year! I have noticed a small leak comming from 2 injector seals since this work and seems to be leaving oily drops on the ground that I never had before either! could they be letting in air? only one fault code from my vag scan fault below not really related to starting at all! any ideas guys...would the whole timing belt need off again if it was a tooth out or can this be set via computer?

**************
1 Fault Found:
01375 - Valves for Engine Mounting: Stage 1
38-10 - Output won't Switch or Short to B+ - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A
**************

 

[marty.h]

If your car is struggling to start and then starts but smokes

Something is leaking into the bores and is having to be cleared before it can start ( your coolant going down at all ? )

If its not right and you have paid someone to do it take it back and get them to sort it

 

[adamss24]

It's the injector pump not timed properly. What did they use to time it, tippex ? Where abouts are you based ?

 

[bizza25]

pump timing set with his computer. he checked it again today and said it was to the factory setting but as the car is warm he cant see how bad it is from cold. car however started this morning with less trouble. initally i gave it a few turns and stopped as it was taking too long. i took the temp sensor off and fired up right away. just slightly high revs for 2 -3 secs then down to normal so plugged sensor back in to stop rad fan whirling. there seems to be 3 injector seals leaking on the right bank may have been damaged taking injectors out during cam replacement, hoping this is the cause of the oil as it lies to that side of the ground. would cause leaking into the bores aswell? they are all being replaced tomoro along with the temp sensor will advise results. car has not used water since although i was expecting it to drop slightly after the work.

ive been trying to post up pics of the cam wear and oil spatter but having trouble on this site...i also have a before and after video of the engine running now that the cams have been done. will get them up on youtube soon so you can view and more importantly listen!

 

[bizza25]

new coolant sensor in and funny enough it started bang on from cold this morning thought it was sorted. drove to shop then started like a pig again 5 mins later so 35 quid wasted temp on a sensor. have posted vag log below if anyone can check to see the pump timing within limits or any other blocks would be useful???

Group B:	'004
	Engine speed	Spec. start	Actual start	Cold start valve
TIME	3800-4200 rpm	10-14 *BTDC	8-16 *BTDC
STAMP	/min	°ATDC	°ATDC	%
0.38	742	2.4	2.6	54.1
1.58	742	2.4	2.2	53.7
2.78	742	2.4	2.6	53.3
3.98	742	2.4	2.6	52.5
5.17	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
6.38	742	2.4	2.4	53.3
7.58	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
8.77	742	2.4	2.4	52.5
9.98	742	2.4	2.6	54.1
11.18	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
12.37	742	2.4	2.4	54.1
13.56	742	2.4	2.8	51.7
14.76	742	2.4	2.6	53.3
15.96	742	2.4	2.6	52.5
17.16	742	2.4	2.6	52.9
18.36	812	5.6	0.4	9.9
19.56	951	3.4	1.6	44.6
20.76	766	2.4	0.6	47.3
21.96	766	2.4	0.2	50.1
23.16	766	2.4	2.4	52.1
24.36	742	2.4	2.4	51.7
25.58	1044	2	1.8	44.2
26.83	1160	3.6	4.4	39.8
28.03	1183	4	3.6	45.4
29.23	1137	7.8	6.6	32.7
30.43	1090	2.8	5.6	44.2
31.63	1021	2	1.6	47.7
32.83	1044	2	0	51.3
34.03	1021	2	2	47.7
35.23	928	2	1.8	44.6
36.43	1067	2.8	1.4	45.4
37.62	1067	5	4.2	39.5
38.82	1090	9.6	9.4	29.2
40.02	1090	9.6	9	29.6
41.23	1114	2	4.4	45
42.42	1021	2	2	47.7
43.62	1044	2	1.8	49.7
44.82	1044	2	2	48.5
46.02	1021	2	1.6	48.5
47.21	1114	5.2	5.2	39.5
48.42	1114	9	8.6	30
49.62	1137	8.8	8.8	32.7
50.81	1160	8.4	8.6	33.1
51.99	1137	2	2	46.9
53.21	1067	2	0	50.9
54.41	1044	2	1.4	47.7
55.61	998	2	1.8	47.7
56.81	766	2.4	0.6	54.1
58.01	1021	5.4	3.4	22.5
59.21	1206	4.4	5.8	42.2
60.41	1392	4.4	5.6	50.1
61.6	1346	2.4	1.4	69.8
62.8	1346	1	1.2	62.3
64	1392	0.2	0	64.7
65.2	1415	0	0	63.1
66.4	1438	0	0	65.5
67.6	1322	2.4	3	72.2
68.79	1183	2	0	56.4
70	1137	2	0	83.2
71.2	1090	2	0	78.9
72.4	1044	2	1.8	50.5
73.62	1090	5	2	39.1
74.85	1114	9.2	9	31.2
76.07	1137	9.2	9	31.6
77.27	1438	4.6	8.4	100.2
78.47	1485	0.6	0.8	61.9
79.67	1230	2	0.6	49.3
80.87	1137	2	0	61.5
82.07	1090	2	0	50.1
83.27	1044	2	1.8	51.3
84.47	1021	2	1.6	47.3
85.66	1090	2.4	2.2	47.7
86.86	1114	3.6	6.4	39.1
88.06	1021	2	0	49.3
89.26	1044	2	1.8	49.7
90.46	1090	6.4	4.8	32
91.65	1090	9.6	9	30
92.85	1114	9.6	9	30.4
94.05	1160	2	0	51.7
95.25	1137	2	0	61.9
96.45	1090	2	0	68.6
97.65	1090	2	1.8	46.6
98.85	1090	2	2.2	49.3
100.05	1137	9	7.6	26.8
101.25	1253	2.2	6.6	54.1
102.45	1183	2	2	52.5
103.65	1230	2	2.2	51.7
104.85	1230	4.6	3.4	46.9
106.05	1322	7.6	9	41.4
107.25	1462	0.8	1.2	65.5
108.45	1578	2.2	3.2	74.2
109.64	1670	0.6	0.8	59.6
110.84	1879	1.8	0.6	62.3
112.04	2088	1.6	1.2	60.8
113.24	2227	2	2	65.5
114.43	2227	1.6	2	65.5
115.64	2204	1.6	2	65.1
116.83	2111	0.8	1	65.5
118.03	2181	1.8	2.4	65.9
119.23	2158	2	2	67.9
120.43	2181	2	2.2	67.1
121.63	2227	2	1.6	64.7
122.83	2250	1	1.2	63.9
124.03	2181	1.2	0.8	67.5
125.23	1694	2.4	3.2	58.8
126.43	1647	2	3.4	60
127.63	1578	2	0	63.9
128.83	1508	2	0	75.4
130.03	1346	2	0	97.1
131.21	1183	2	0	100.2
132.43	1183	2	0	43.4
133.61	1160	2	2.2	55.2
134.82	998	2	1.6	50.5
136.02	1067	2	1.8	50.5
137.22	766	2.4	1.4	48.5
138.42	766	2.4	2.4	52.9
139.62	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
140.81	742	2.4	2.2	53.3
142.01	742	2.4	2.4	51.7
143.22	742	2.4	2.6	50.5
144.41	742	2.4	2.4	54.1
145.62	742	2.4	2.6	52.5
146.81	742	2.4	2.6	52.5
148.01	742	2.4	2.6	50.9
149.22	742	2.4	2.4	51.7
150.42	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
151.67	742	2.4	2.4	53.7
152.89	742	2.4	2.4	51.3
154.09	742	2.4	2.6	52.5
155.29	742	2.4	2.4	52.1
156.49	742	2.4	2.6	52.1
157.68	742	2.4	2.6	52.5
158.88	1160	3	2.2	41.8
160.07	1299	4.6	5.6	47.3
161.32	1694	4.6	4.2	53.3
162.55	1531	5	4.6	55.2
163.81	1879	1	1.4	59.6
165.03	2343	0.6	0.6	58
166.23	1926	1	0.4	63.5
167.49	2158	1	1	60.8
168.71	2366	0.6	0.8	59.6
169.91	2506	0.2	0	59.6
171.11	2645	0.6	0.6	59.2
172.31	2738	0.6	1	61.9
173.49	2714	0.2	0.4	62.7
174.71	2622	0.6	0.8	64.3
175.91	2552	0	0.2	62.7
177.15	2482	0.6	1	63.9
178.37	2366	0.6	0.2	65.5
179.57	2366	1.8	2	66.7
180.79	2274	1.8	1.8	65.9
181.97	2181	1	1	64.3
183.17	2088	1	1	66.3
184.37	2018	1.4	1.2	67.5
185.57	1926	1.4	1	67.1
186.77	1902	2.2	2	70.2
187.97	1856	4.4	4	58
189.22	1856	4.6	4.4	59.2
190.45	1856	3.4	3.2	60
191.65	1856	3.6	3.2	59.6
192.85	1879	4.8	4.2	58.4
194.05	1926	5.6	4.6	55.6
195.25	2018	5.6	5.2	57.6
196.45	2042	3.2	3	60.8
197.65	2065	2.8	2.2	61.2
198.85	2042	2.6	2.2	61.5
200.05	2042	2.6	2	60.8
201.25	2018	2.6	2.2	61.5
202.45	1926	2	1.4	61.9
203.65	1856	2	0	62.7
204.85	2366	0.6	1.2	61.2
206.08	2134	0.2	0.4	65.9
207.31	2204	0.2	2	61.5
208.51	2552	1.4	1.2	56
209.71	2413	3.2	4.6	56.4
210.91	2436	3.2	3.8	48.9
212.11	2761	3.6	3.4	46.6
213.31	3086	5.4	6	48.5
214.51	3364	6.6	7.4	42.6
215.71	3689	8	8.4	40.6
216.91	3967	9.6	10	40.6
218.11	4222	10.4	10.4	41
219.31	3155	4.6	4.4	49.3
220.51	3318	6	6	45
221.71	3457	6.4	6.8	43.4
222.91	3434	2.8	1.6	55.2
224.11	3318	3	2	56.4
225.31	3271	2.6	2.4	56.8
226.49	3202	1.6	1.4	58
227.71	3155	2.8	1	58
228.94	3155	1.2	1	59.6
230.17	3202	5.8	6.2	45.8
231.37	3341	6.4	7.4	43.8
232.57	3526	7.2	8	42.6
233.77	3666	7.8	8.2	41.8
234.97	3805	8.6	8.8	41.8
236.17	3944	9.2	9	41.8
237.37	4083	10	9.6	39.8
238.57	4199	10.4	10.4	41
239.77	3109	4	2.6	54.1
240.97	3039	4	0	54.4
242.17	2946	3.6	0	55.2
243.37	2854	2.8	0	58
244.57	2761	2	0	59.2
245.77	2668	1.4	0	60.4
246.97	2575	0.6	0	61.9
248.17	2506	0	0	63.9
249.37	2436	0	0	62.7
250.57	2390	0	0	63.1
251.77	2343	0	0	63.5
252.97	2390	2	3.4	72.6
254.21	2390	3.6	2.8	52.9
255.43	2204	2.8	4	56.4
256.63	1995	2	1.2	58.8
257.83	2018	1.4	1.6	61.5
259.03	2042	0.8	0.8	60.8
260.23	2065	0.8	0.4	59.2
261.43	2018	0	0	60
262.63	2018	2	2	68.3
263.83	2018	2	2	66.3
265.03	1995	0.8	0.6	63.1
266.23	2018	2	2	65.5
267.43	2018	2	2.2	66.3
268.63	2042	0.8	0.6	60.4
269.83	2088	2.2	2.4	53.3
271.03	2158	1.4	1.2	57.6
272.21	2204	1.6	1.6	54.1
273.41	2274	3.2	3.6	50.5
274.61	2274	0	0.4	59.6
275.81	3178	5.8	3	37.9
277.01	4083	10.2	12.8	38.3
278.21	3990	8	8.4	48.1
279.41	3782	6.6	0	52.1
280.61	3248	4.4	0	54.4
281.81	2830	2.6	0	60
283.01	2552	0.2	0	61.5
284.21	2274	0	0	63.9
285.41	2181	0	0	63.5
286.61	2134	1	1.2	65.1
287.81	2088	1	1.4	65.1
289.01	1949	0	0	64.3
290.21	1740	2	0	66.7
291.41	1438	2	0	66.3
292.61	1230	2	0	60.8
293.81	1044	2	0	53.7
294.99	1230	2	0	57.6
296.19	1183	2	2	52.9
297.39	998	2	2	52.5
298.59	974	2	1.6	48.5
299.79	812	2	1.6	37.1
301.01	742	2.4	2.6	50.9
302.19	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
303.39	742	2.4	2.6	50.1
304.6	742	2.4	2.6	50.1
305.79	742	2.4	2.4	50.1
306.99	1021	2	2.6	48.1
308.19	998	3.2	2.8	37.9
309.39	998	3	3	46.2
310.6	1044	2.8	2.8	47.3
312.88	1160	9	9.6	30.8
314.11	1647	0	1.4	52.1
315.31	1810	1.6	1.6	56.8
316.51	2111	1.4	1.2	56
317.71	2366	2	1.4	52.5
318.95	2598	4.2	4.6	46.6
320.17	2761	4.6	5.4	46.9
321.37	2900	4.6	5.2	49.3
322.59	2343	0	0	63.5
323.79	2042	0	0	62.7
324.97	1902	0	0	64.3
326.17	1740	2	0	62.7
327.38	1601	2	0	66.7
328.58	1485	2	0	60
329.83	1346	2	0	61.2
331.05	1206	2	0	57.6
332.25	1160	1.2	0.8	61.2
333.45	1253	2.4	2.4	65.5
334.63	1253	2.4	2.4	64.3
335.85	1230	2.2	2.4	63.1
337.05	1206	2	2	62.3
338.25	1206	1.6	2	61.2
339.43	1206	1.8	2	61.9
340.65	1230	2.4	1.8	65.5
341.89	1299	2.4	1.8	65.9
343.13	1322	2.4	2	67.5
344.37	1299	2.4	2.4	65.9
345.59	1276	2.4	3.2	67.9
346.79	1253	2.4	2.6	64.7
347.99	1253	2.4	3	63.5
349.19	1230	2.4	2.8	64.7
350.39	1230	2.2	2.2	65.5
351.59	1206	2	2.4	63.1
352.77	1206	2	2	62.7
353.99	1183	2	2	61.9
355.19	1183	1.4	1.6	61.2
356.39	1183	1.6	1.4	61.9
357.59	1183	1.4	1.2	61.2
358.77	1183	1.2	1.2	61.5
359.99	1508	1	2.4	53.3
361.19	1346	2.4	2.2	67.1
362.37	1253	2.4	3	66.7
363.57	1230	2.2	2.6	63.9
364.77	1206	2.2	2.2	64.7
365.97	1183	1.8	1.8	62.3
367.17	1183	1.8	2	61.9
368.37	1206	2	1.8	63.9
369.57	1183	1.6	1.8	62.3
370.77	1160	2	0	57.6
371.97	1137	2	0	53.3
373.17	1137	2	0	54.4
374.37	1114	2	0	54.8
375.57	1114	2	1.4	49.7
376.77	1160	1.8	3.8	54.1
377.97	1160	1.2	0.6	58.4
379.17	1230	2	1.6	61.2
380.37	1253	2.4	2.2	63.5
381.57	1276	2.4	2.2	65.9
382.77	1299	2	1.8	65.9
383.97	1299	2.4	2.8	66.3
385.17	1276	2.4	2.8	66.3
386.4	1230	1.4	1.6	62.7
387.63	1206	2.2	2	64.7
388.83	1183	2	1.8	62.3
390.03	1160	1.8	1.6	62.3
391.23	1183	1.2	1.6	58.8
392.43	1183	1.2	1.2	60.8
393.63	1276	2.4	2.2	66.7
394.83	1230	2.4	2.4	65.5
396.03	1206	2.2	2.4	64.7
397.23	1160	1.8	2.2	63.9
398.43	1183	1.6	1.4	61.5
399.63	1137	2	0	48.5
400.83	1160	2	0	61.9
402.03	1137	2	0	52.9
403.23	1114	2	0	53.3
404.43	1114	2	0	54.4
405.63	1114	2	0	53.7
406.83	1114	2	0	53.7
408.03	1090	2	0	52.9
409.23	1067	2	0	53.3
410.43	1044	2	0	51.7
411.61	1021	2	0	52.5
412.81	998	2	1.8	49.3
414.01	998	2	1.8	48.1
415.21	974	2	1.6	48.5
416.41	1067	9.6	8.2	24.9
417.61	1392	6.6	8.4	45.8
418.81	1438	0	0.8	60
420.01	1531	1	0.8	59.6
421.21	1508	0.8	0.8	67.9
422.39	1230	2	2.8	52.1
423.61	1183	2	0	61.9
424.81	1114	2	0	52.1
426.01	1114	2	2.2	49.3
427.26	1183	1.6	2.4	63.1
428.47	1206	2	2.2	65.1
429.67	1230	2.2	2	65.1
430.87	1230	2.4	2.2	64.3
432.07	1230	2.2	2.2	65.9
433.27	1160	2	0	53.7
434.47	1206	16.4	2.4	52.1
435.67	1137	1.6	1.6	62.7
436.87	1137	1.6	1.6	62.7
438.07	1137	1.2	1.6	59.2
439.27	1137	1.6	1.6	62.7
440.47	1160	1.8	1.8	62.7
441.67	1160	1.4	1.6	60.8
442.92	1183	1.6	1.4	61.9
444.13	1183	1.8	1.8	62.7
445.33	1276	2.4	1.4	66.3
446.53	1322	1.8	0.8	64.7
447.75	1346	2.4	2.6	67.9
448.95	1299	2	1.8	55.2
450.13	1322	2	0	72.6
451.35	1276	2	0	98.6
452.55	1230	2	0	99
453.73	1183	2	0	66.3
454.93	1137	2	0	54.8
456.13	1114	2	0	52.9
457.33	1137	1.6	3.2	60.8
458.53	1114	1.4	2	61.9
459.73	1114	1.6	1.6	62.7
460.93	1114	0.8	0.8	58.8
462.13	1137	2	2.2	52.1
463.33	1137	2	2	51.3
464.53	1137	2	2.4	51.7
465.73	1137	2	2	51.7
466.93	1114	2	2	52.5
468.13	1114	2	0	54.4
469.33	1137	2	0	54.4
470.53	1114	2	0	54.1
471.71	1114	2	0	55.2
472.91	1114	2	0	54.8
474.13	1114	2	0	54.8
475.34	1160	1.8	0.8	61.9
476.53	1090	2	2	49.3
477.73	1114	2	0	54.4
478.93	1137	2	1.6	50.1
480.11	1137	0.8	0.4	58.8
481.31	1206	1.6	1.4	61.9
482.51	1230	2	1.8	65.9
483.71	1206	2.2	2.2	64.7
484.91	1160	2	2.2	62.7
486.11	1137	1.6	1.6	62.3
487.31	1137	1.4	2	60.8
488.49	1137	0.6	0.4	59.2
489.71	1230	2.2	2.2	66.3
490.91	1230	2.4	2.2	64.7
492.11	1230	2.2	2.6	63.9
493.31	1183	2	2.2	63.5
494.51	1160	1.8	1.6	64.3
495.71	1160	1.8	1.8	63.1
496.89	1137	1.4	1.4	61.5
498.11	1137	1.6	1.6	62.7
499.34	1137	1.6	1.8	63.1
500.57	1137	1.8	1.8	63.1
501.77	1114	2	1.8	45.4
502.97	1137	2	0	55.6
504.17	1137	2	0	55.6
505.37	1090	2	0	54.8
506.57	1067	2	0	52.5
507.77	1044	2	0	54.1
508.97	1021	2	1.8	49.3
510.17	998	2	2	50.1
511.37	1044	2	1.6	50.5
512.57	1090	2.2	3.4	49.3
513.77	1090	6.2	6	35.5
514.97	1114	9.8	9.8	30
516.17	1137	9.6	9.4	30
517.37	1276	7.8	9.4	35.9
518.57	1462	0.6	2.2	56.4
519.75	1299	2.2	2.6	66.7
520.95	1183	2	0	55.6
522.15	1090	2	0	52.9
523.35	1021	2	2	48.5
524.55	998	2	2.2	48.5
525.75	1044	2	1.8	48.5
526.95	1044	2	2.6	48.1
528.15	1090	4.6	3.6	41.4
529.35	1090	9.6	10	29.6
530.55	1415	2.4	5	99.8
531.75	1438	0.2	0.4	61.9
532.95	1531	1	1.6	63.9
534.15	1554	1	0.8	61.9
535.35	1554	1	1.2	63.9
536.55	1601	1.2	1	63.5
537.75	1624	0	0.6	64.7
538.95	1392	1.4	1.4	71
540.13	1415	1.4	1.2	69
541.35	1438	0.4	0.4	62.3
542.58	1438	2.4	2.8	70.2
543.81	1415	2.4	2.8	71.4
545.01	1322	2	0	41
546.21	1299	2	0	60
547.41	1206	2	0	64.3
548.61	1160	2	0	54.1
549.81	1160	2	2.4	53.3
551.01	1137	1.6	3.2	56.8
552.21	1067	2	1.2	44.6
553.41	1114	11	1.6	86.8
554.61	1067	2	1.6	48.9
555.81	1044	2	0	52.9
557.01	1044	2	0	53.3
558.21	1067	2	1.4	48.9
559.41	1137	3	3.6	47.7
560.61	1160	2	3.2	53.3
561.81	1137	3.6	3.2	45.4
563.01	1230	8.6	9.2	36.7
564.21	1624	1.2	2.8	54.8
565.41	1647	1.2	2.2	61.2
566.61	1740	1.6	1.2	61.5
567.81	1717	0	1.2	61.9
569.04	1392	2	0	59.6
570.27	1276	2	0	85.6
571.47	1160	2	2.8	30.8
572.67	1021	2	1.6	47.7
573.87	1114	2.8	1.8	46.6
575.07	1090	9.8	9	27.2
576.27	1137	9.6	9.8	32
577.47	1206	5	9.2	45.4
578.67	1137	2	2.4	51.3
579.87	1137	2	2.2	50.1
581.07	1090	2	2.2	49.7
582.27	1253	3.6	2	44.6
583.47	1206	8.6	9	35.1
584.65	1253	8.8	9.4	34.7
585.85	1276	2.2	2.2	66.3
587.1	1299	2.4	3	65.5
588.33	1322	2	1.6	65.1
589.6	1322	1.8	1.2	66.3
590.81	1369	1.8	1.6	69
592.01	1322	2.4	3.2	2.4
593.21	1230	2	2.2	54.1
594.41	1114	2	0	60
595.61	1067	2	0	49.7
596.81	1044	2	0	53.3
598.01	1114	2	1.4	50.1
599.21	1067	2	2.2	51.3
600.41	1067	2	2	50.1
601.61	998	2	2	48.9
602.81	1067	9.6	8.8	24.9
603.99	1369	7	9.8	45
605.21	1438	0.2	1	60.8
606.39	1462	0.2	0.8	65.9
607.61	1346	2.4	3.2	73.4
608.79	1183	2	2.6	51.3
609.99	1137	2	0	54.8
611.19	1090	2	0	52.5
612.39	1067	2	0	52.9
613.59	1021	2	0	51.3
614.79	998	2	1.6	49.3
615.99	998	2	2	48.9
617.19	998	2	1.8	47.3
618.39	928	2	1.6	48.1
619.59	766	2.4	2.2	51.7
620.79	742	2.4	2.4	53.3
621.99	766	2.4	2.2	52.1
623.19	766	2.4	2.4	52.1
624.39	742	2.4	2.4	51.3
625.68	742	2.4	2.8	50.1
626.93	742	2.4	2.6	52.9
628.15	742	2.4	2.4	52.5
629.35	742	2.4	2.2	52.9
630.61	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
631.83	742	2.4	2.2	52.5
633.03	742	2.4	2.6	50.9
634.21	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
635.65	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
636.85	742	2.4	2.2	52.5
638.05	742	2.4	2.4	52.5
639.25	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
640.47	742	2.4	2.6	51.3
641.65	742	2.4	2.4	52.9
642.88	742	2.4	2.2	52.1
644.13	742	2.4	2.2	52.1
645.33	742	2.4	2.6	49.7
646.55	371	5	2.4	99

 

[bizza25]

have just been in vag com basic settings with the following results from block 004. does it mean anything to anyone? the only thing I could tell is that during every cycle the car run more rough/louder so does that mean the timing is ok at present or could it still need manually retarded or advanced? i have no tdi timing graph plugin for visuals cheers

Saturday	16	June	2012	22:17:48
8E0 907 401 Q	2.5l V6 TDI 0000AG 0010
	Group A:	'004
		Engine speed	Spec. start	Actual start	Cold start valve
	TIME	3800-4200 rpm	10-14 *BTDC	8-16 *BTDC
Marker	STAMP	/min		°ATDC	%
	0.4	835	Late	5	72.6
	0.8	835	Late	5.2	72.2
	1.2	835	Late	5.2	71
	1.6	835	Late	5.4	70.2
	2	858	Late	5	73
	2.4	835	Late	5.6	68.3
	2.8	858	Late	5	74.6
	3.2	812	Late	5.4	70.6
	3.6	858	Early	5	72.2
	3.98	858	Early	7	2
	4.38	835	Early	11	5.5
	4.78	835	Early	12.6	6.3
	5.18	835	Early	14.8	8.3
	5.58	835	Early	15	9.5
	5.98	835	Early	14.8	9.9
	6.38	835	Early	14.4	9.5
	6.78	835	Early	14.4	9.5
	7.18	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	7.58	835	Early	14.6	10.3
	7.98	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	8.38	835	Early	14.6	9.9
	8.78	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	9.18	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	9.58	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	9.98	835	Early	14.6	10.3
	10.38	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	10.78	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	11.18	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	11.58	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	11.98	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	12.38	835	Early	14.6	9.9
	12.78	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	13.18	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	13.58	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	13.98	835	Late	14.6	9.5
	14.38	835	Late	3	100.2
	14.78	835	Late	6.6	70.6
	15.16	858	Late	5.4	70.2
	15.56	812	Late	5.4	69.4
	15.96	882	Late	5	75
	16.36	812	Late	5.6	67.1
	16.76	858	Late	5.2	74.6
	17.16	812	Late	5.4	69
	17.56	858	Late	5.2	71.8
	17.96	812	Late	5.4	71.4
	18.36	882	Late	4.8	74.2
	18.76	812	Late	5.4	68.3
	19.16	858	Late	5.2	74.6
	19.56	835	Late	5.2	73
	19.96	858	Late	5.2	71.8
	20.36	835	Late	5.4	72.2
	20.76	858	Late	5.4	71
	21.16	835	Late	5.2	71.4
	21.56	835	Late	5.4	70.6
	21.96	882	Late	5.2	75.8
	22.36	812	Late	5.8	68.3
	22.76	882	Late	5.2	73
	23.16	835	Late	5	70.2
	23.56	858	Late	5.2	73.8
	23.96	812	Late	5.4	71
	24.36	882	Early	5.2	75.4
	24.76	858	Early	6	2
	25.16	812	Early	11.2	11.4
	25.56	835	Early	13.2	5.9
	25.96	835	Early	14.8	7.9
	26.36	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	26.76	835	Early	14.6	9.9
	27.16	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	27.56	835	Early	14.6	9.9
	27.96	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	28.38	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	28.78	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	29.18	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	29.58	835	Early	14.6	9.9
	29.98	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	30.38	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	30.8	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	31.19	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	31.59	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	31.99	835	Early	14.4	9.5
	32.38	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	32.78	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	33.18	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	33.58	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	33.98	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	34.38	835	Late	14.4	9.5
	34.78	835	Late	0.4	100.2
	35.18	835	Late	6.2	69
	35.58	858	Late	5.2	70.6
	35.98	835	Late	5	71
	36.38	835	Late	5.2	70.6
	36.78	835	Late	5.2	71.8
	37.18	858	Late	5	73.4
	37.58	812	Late	5.6	67.5
	37.98	858	Late	5	72.2
	38.37	812	Late	5.6	68.6
	38.77	858	Late	5.2	73
	39.17	812	Late	5.4	69.4
	39.59	882	Late	5	75.4
	39.99	812	Late	5.8	65.9
	40.39	858	Late	4.8	73
	40.79	812	Late	5.2	69.4
	41.19	882	Late	5	74.6
	41.59	812	Late	5.2	69.8
	41.99	882	Late	5.2	73.4
	42.39	812	Late	5.4	69.8
	42.79	858	Late	4.8	73.4
	43.19	812	Late	5.4	71.4
	43.59	858	Late	5.2	71.4
	43.99	835	Late	5.2	72.2
	44.39	858	Early	5.2	72.6
	44.79	858	Early	6	2.8
	45.19	812	Early	11.4	10.3
	45.59	835	Early	13.2	5.9
	45.99	835	Early	14.6	7.9
	46.39	835	Early	14.8	9.5
	46.79	835	Early	14.4	10.3
	47.19	835	Early	14.4	9.5
	47.59	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	47.99	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	48.39	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	48.79	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	49.19	835	Early	14.2	9.9
	49.59	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	49.99	835	Early	14.6	9.9
	50.39	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	50.79	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	51.19	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	51.59	835	Early	14.2	9.5
	51.99	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	52.39	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	52.79	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	53.19	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	53.59	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	53.99	835	Early	14.4	9.5
	54.39	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	54.8	835	Late	14.6	9.1
	55.2	835	Late	3	100.2
	55.6	835	Late	6.6	68.6
	56	858	Late	5.6	71
	56.4	812	Late	5.4	69.8
	56.8	858	Late	5	72.6
	57.2	812	Late	5.4	68.3
	57.6	858	Late	5.4	71.8
	58	812	Late	5.4	68.6
	58.4	882	Late	5.2	73.4
	58.8	812	Late	5.4	70.6
	59.2	882	Late	5.2	71.4
	59.6	812	Late	5.4	69
	60	882	Late	5	72.6
	60.4	812	Late	5	70.2
	60.8	858	Late	5.2	73.4
	61.2	812	Late	5.4	69.8
	61.6	858	Late	5	72.2
	62	812	Late	5.4	68.3
	62.4	858	Late	5	72.2
	62.79	835	Late	4.8	72.6
	63.19	835	Late	5.6	70.2
	63.59	858	Late	5.2	74.2
	63.99	858	Late	5	70.6
	64.39	835	Late	5.2	70.6
	64.79	835	Late	5.2	71
	65.19	858	Early	5	73.8
	65.59	858	Early	4.2	2.4
	65.99	835	Early	11.4	15.4
	66.39	835	Early	13	6.7
	66.79	835	Early	14.6	7.5
	67.19	835	Early	14.8	8.7
	67.59	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	67.99	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	68.39	835	Early	14.8	10.3
	68.79	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	69.19	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	69.59	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	69.99	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	70.39	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	70.79	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	71.19	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	71.59	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	71.99	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	72.39	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	72.79	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	73.19	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	73.59	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	73.99	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	74.38	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	74.78	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	75.18	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	75.58	835	Late	14.6	9.9
	75.98	835	Late	0	100.2
	76.38	835	Late	6.4	70.2
	76.78	882	Late	5.4	71.4
	77.18	812	Late	5.6	66.3
	77.58	882	Late	5	73.8
	77.98	812	Late	5.2	71
	78.38	858	Late	5.4	71
	78.78	812	Late	5.4	70.2
	79.18	882	Late	5	73
	79.58	812	Late	5.4	69
	79.98	858	Late	5	73
	80.38	835	Late	5.2	74.6
	80.78	835	Late	5.6	67.9
	81.18	858	Late	5	73
	81.57	835	Late	5	70.2
	81.97	835	Late	5.2	72.2
	82.37	835	Late	5.4	69.8
	82.77	858	Late	5.4	74.6
	83.17	812	Late	5.4	68.3
	83.57	858	Late	5.2	73
	83.97	835	Late	5	69.8
	84.35	858	Late	5.2	72.6
	84.75	812	Late	5.6	69
	85.15	882	Late	5.2	72.2
	85.55	812	Late	5.4	68.3
	85.95	882	Early	5.2	74.6
	86.35	858	Early	7.4	2.4
	86.75	812	Early	10.8	4.3
	87.15	835	Early	13	6.3
	87.55	835	Early	14.8	8.3
	87.95	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	88.35	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	88.75	835	Early	14.6	8.3
	89.15	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	89.55	835	Early	15	9.5
	89.95	835	Early	14.4	9.5
	90.35	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	90.75	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	91.15	835	Early	14.6	8.3
	91.55	835	Early	14.8	9.1
	91.93	835	Early	14.8	9.5
	92.33	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	92.73	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	93.13	835	Early	14.8	8.3
	93.53	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	93.96	835	Early	15	9.1
	94.37	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	94.77	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	95.17	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	95.57	835	Early	14.8	8.7
	95.97	835	Late	14.4	7.9
	96.37	835	Late	2.2	100.2
	96.77	835	Late	6.6	69
	97.17	858	Late	5.2	71.4
	97.57	812	Late	5	68.6
	97.97	858	Late	5.2	72.2
	98.36	812	Late	5.2	67.5
	98.76	882	Late	5	74.2
	99.16	812	Late	5.6	68.3
	99.56	858	Late	5	74.2
	99.96	812	Late	5.4	68.3
	100.36	858	Late	5.2	71.8
	100.76	812	Late	5.6	69
	101.16	858	Late	5	73
	101.56	812	Late	5.4	70.2
	101.96	858	Late	5.2	71
	102.36	835	Late	5.4	70.6
	102.76	835	Late	5	69.8
	103.16	835	Late	5.2	73
	103.56	858	Late	5	73.8
	103.96	835	Late	5.4	71
	104.36	835	Late	5.2	71.8
	104.76	858	Late	5	73
	105.16	812	Late	5.6	67.5
	105.56	882	Late	5.4	74.6
	105.96	812	Late	5.2	69.4
	106.36	858	Early	5.2	71.8
	106.76	858	Early	5.4	2
	107.16	835	Early	11	7.5
	107.56	835	Early	13	5.9
	107.96	835	Early	14.8	7.9
	108.36	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	108.76	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	109.16	835	Early	14.6	10.3
	109.56	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	109.96	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	110.36	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	110.76	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	111.16	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	111.56	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	111.96	835	Early	14.6	8.3
	112.36	835	Early	14.4	9.1
	112.76	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	113.16	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	113.56	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	113.96	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	114.36	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	114.76	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	115.16	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	115.56	835	Early	14.4	7.9
	115.96	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	116.36	835	Early	14.6	9.1
	116.76	835	Late	14.8	8.3
	117.16	835	Late	1	100.2
	117.56	835	Late	6.6	69
	117.96	858	Late	5.8	68.6
	118.36	812	Late	5.2	69
	118.76	882	Late	5	74.2
	119.16	812	Late	5.6	67.1
	119.56	858	Late	5.2	73
	119.96	812	Late	5.2	69
	120.6	858	Late	5.2	73.4
	121	812	Late	5.6	66.3
	121.4	858	Late	5.2	72.6
	121.82	812	Late	5.2	69
	122.2	858	Late	5	72.2
	122.6	812	Late	5.4	69.8
	123	882	Late	5	74.2
	123.4	812	Late	5.6	66.3
	123.8	882	Late	5	73.4
	124.2	812	Late	5.2	69.4
	124.6	858	Late	5.2	72.2
	125	835	Late	5.2	72.2
	125.4	858	Late	5	73.4
	125.8	812	Late	5.4	69.4
	126.2	858	Late	5	71.8
	126.6	812	Late	5.2	71
	127	858	Early	5.4	71
	127.4	882	Early	4	2
	127.8	812	Early	11.2	10.3
	128.2	835	Early	12.8	5.9
	128.6	835	Early	15	8.3
	129	835	Early	14.6	9.5
	129.4	835	Early	14.6	8.7
	129.8	1021	Early	14.4	12.2
	130.2	1044	Early	17	21.7
	130.6	882	Early	14.4	14.2
	131	812	Early	14.2	8.3
	131.4	858	Early	14.2	9.9
	131.8	905	Early	15.2	12.2
	132.2	835	Early	14.6	10.3
	132.6	835	Early	14.4	8.3
	133	835	Early	14.2	7.9
	133.4	835	Early	14.4	8.7
	133.8	928	Early	14.6	11
	134.2	1114	Early	16.2	18.9
	134.6	905	Early	15	16.2
	135	974	Early	14	12.6
	135.4	951	Early	16.2	16.6
	135.8	812	Early	14.4	8.7
	136.2	974	Early	14	10.7

 

[bizza25]

just to update incase anyone ever has similar probs: adamss was correct.. apparently the timing was 2 teeth out at the pump. car has started much better since out of the garage no smoke, less mist too (unsure if this is just warmer/dryer mornings) sounds better too. So before coolant temp sensor was fitted it did not want to start when cold >clouds of white smoke >> but started ok when warmed up After NEW sensor replaced started ok from cold >> but did not start good when restarted luke warm after 5 min drive >>would start ok when fully warm too. So I suppose the sensor was a bit duffed as a new one did change things on cold starts. Will have to wait until cold mornings untill I know for sure I suppose. Oil leak was due to a damaged camshaft end cap that was not sealing the new cam correctly when engine built up pressure, will be keeping an eye on this but there is still a slight leak. I have had the crankcase breather replaced an cam seals. is there any other problamatic places at the front of the engine for oil leaks? anywhere behind the belts that is hard to see?

 

[adamss24]

If the pump was 2 teeth out then it would not have started at all. The camshaft seals should have been replaced with the new cams so you should have no leaks from there. The most common place for oil leaks are the rocker cover gaskets, dealer puts sealant on the front/rear of the belt just where it's thinner as that's where it leaks from. With vcds you need to put the pump as advanced as it can go without throwing a code and keeping it under the green line. I do hope they used the proper locking kit and not tippex...hence the engine being noisy !

 

[1210tech]

Just seeing this thread so would like to advise you to replace the cam-shaft pulleys too.

After having the same job done on my A4 (full top end rebuild) and spending nearly £2k, one of the cam pulleys let go after about 6 months of the work being done. I was advised by the garage that the cam pulleys are a cast part and don't need replacing, hmmmm, yeah right!

 

[bizza25]

thanks guys. still have oil leak. not convincinced about starting yet either after sitting for several hours,will monitor that for few more cold/morning starts. on the oil leak front seems dry now but and around rockers seems ok. slight weep from 2 injector seals but thats it. at the back of the right bank there is a part 'pierburg 057145100c' this is the vacuum pump if i searched correctly. when lying underneath it seems to be dripping oil onto the exhaust and this must be the slight burn smell i get when driving. it drips then onto a cover around the shaft that comes from the mulittronic box to wheel, then onto ground so it was a bit hard to pin point but definatly seems to be the issue now. would this part have been off when putting in the new cams? is it an easy fix to either tighten more or would it need off and sealed again? or do i need a new one? they look quite pricey

 

[bizza25]

well i have the seals replaced and so far the oil leaks seem stopped. burning smell has stopped too. tight enough to get pump off you need to remove the pipe and twist the pump right around to angle it out. when off the propeller seemed to have quite a lot of play in it and i have noticed now at very slow speed eg parking the brake will start to harden up maybe i damaged it trying to get it off so thats a bit of advice for anyone else dont force it just turn it!. i dont think the propeller would be in at the wrong angle as the car is fine at all speeds except parking just hope it stays that way a while longer as im skint after previous cam work!

i'm still monitoring the starting some days it starts perfect others takes about 6 turns, could this still be a timing issue? really unsure but this now seems intermittent. or is is just a fluke on how the engine comes to a stop leaving it in ideal position for next start? i have invested in a mulitimeter. today battery is around 12.3 v standing and 14.3v running. so going to have to get someone crank it every morning while i monitor the voltage. hope it is low on the bad starts then a new battery should resolve...i was told anything below 11.5v and you'd have trouble starting the v6 so will keep you posted on this annoying issue

 

[bizza25]

mulitmeter reading of 12.8v unloaded then dropped to 10.3v while cranking a slow start this morning. car fired after 6/7 turns, then nice smooth running. is 10.3v a suitable cold crank for the v6? or should it be around 12v even during cranking?

 

[adamss24]

Replace the battery, it seems like it's on it's last legs...

 

[bizza25]

well folks after many different test scenarios i am still at a loss as
to what is doing on with this car!

basically car starts sometimes perfect from an overnight sit
sometimes several cranks. usually takes several cranks after sitting for 6-8 hrs after finish work
(but this is not as long as an overninght sit so i'm really stumped)

Bearing in mind it is summer and not cold
I think this problem will only get worse as colder weather sets in.

Problems started after timing belt and Cams replaced.
Mechanic has re-checked the car and says timing is not out.
He has the correct tools and computor to set teh timing up.
He seems to be busy and knows the VAG engines
So how many times do I keep taking it back to him?!

What i have noticed it started normally with the
OLD temp sendor disconnected and I was told to replace this...
With a NEW temp sendor disconnected the car starts every time normally aswell
So after spending another 30quid the new one has made no difference either.
It does seam to be working ok as the temp gauge reads ok.
I would just keep the thing disconnected but the car drives with the fan whirling and has a noticable differnece in power if I keep it plugged out.

So far :

new plugs
maf replaced
new temp sendor
battery checked ok
car started with jump leads over past 2 weeks (cold and warm starts) from a runnnig car
putting out 14v > sometimes mine starts ok sometimes several cranks so the issue remains
not looking like a battery either!

Could this still be a timing or pump issue even though my car starts
within 2 turns Everytime i have the temp sendor disconnected?

Anyway to test wiring/voltage to the sendor?

 

[beachbuggy]

One of the camshaft a tooth out? I know you said the pump was 2 teeth out could they have done the same with the camshafts,

 

[bizza25]

yes but why does it always start ok with temp sendor disconnected that is the thing that is really bugging me. surely if the fuel pump or cam timing was out it would make no difference if the tem sendor was disconnected. is there a cam sensor that works with the temp sensor ?

 

[bizza25]

so after weeks of careful monitoring and investigation this issues are defiantly related to temp sensor.
what i have noticed is that on days of a good start the glow plug light stays on for a few secs and on days of a bad start glow plug light goes out immediately.

as it is summer the glow plugs should not be needed so a faulty glow plug relay or circuit wiring should not be affecting starts this much, the temp has not been lower than 15degrees any morning.

i am having the temp sensor circuit checked this week by auto spark. it could be that a wire on this circuit has been damaged when cam work done, either pulled or nipped somewhere and causing the intermittent starts and hesitation. as there is also some black smoke at low revs etc so the ecu seems to be over fueling and causing a diesel knock at low speeds when warm.

i will update further when inspection complete. if this is the cure i will be well pleased

 

[bizza25]

Temp cct checked out all ok no broken or trapped wires to sensor or plugs.
Have been told to replace glowplug relay for starting issues even when warm so that is the next step.

For hesitation I had egr blocked off and hey presto the thing ran much better so took off and cleaned the old one (although it didnt seem to be that dirty for a 10year old car) now you can hear the turbo spool much quicker when warm. at low revs there is better throttle response an no black smoke. bit of a pig of a job without a flexible tool. i used a 1/4 drive socket allan key set and some gasket sealer for the manifold gasket. the egr gaskets are both in good shape and can be reused.

now for the intermittent hard start i hope the relay does the job but not holding my breath....

 

[bizza25]

anyone know where the glow plug relay is located in 2.5 bfc engine? some reports say there is none!

ive had cover off ecu at firewall, cant see anything obvious in engine bay,glove box out, both ends off the dash !

looking up under steering wheel now but cant see much there either

 

[adamss24]

Its in the ecu box, blue painted relay...

 

[bizza25]

thanks chris...is it underneath the ecu? i could not see any relays when i had that cover off. i have seen them on ebay so i was looking for blue 202 but could see not see any....will check again saturday

 

[adamss24]

Yes mate, under the ecu, there's a few relays there- 3 to be precise ! It's the one in the middle if i recall correctly...

 

[bizza25]

didnt think in a hundred years there would be anything HIDDEN under there! i mean talk about making something hard to find thats rediculous! so i have had ecu out and the relay 202 was visable. so far all i have done is cleaned the contacts were there is slight discolour/oxidisation/would'nt even call it rust sort of stuff at the base of the relay. this seams to have worked! the luke warm intermittent starting issue seems solved but in saying that it's only 4 days into testing! i get a few secs of glow on the dash each morning and perfect start. then after work a slightly shorter time of 1-2 secs of glow which seems enough to start again with no issue. (before light went out immediatly and car took a few turns) i have periodically left the house at random times taken the car for a drive to warm it up then let cool for 1,2, 4 and 6 hrs and each time no problem starting. its probably a bit of over kill but this has been about 5 months of a pain so hopefully that is the last niggle sorted!....untill the next one that is

 

[AlexGSi2000]

I apologise if this has been written in previous posts - but have you changed the copper crush washers on the injector leak-down pipes?
Reason being, if there isnt a tight seal then essentially the injectors will take in abit of air - causing longer cranks until firing.

I had to also have my cams replaced (after my post in May - jinxed myself) I didn't have any replacement copper crush washers at the time, when the car had been stood a while it took ages to fire - replaced the washers and its been fine ever since.

 

[Mal]

I'm really glad you got it sorted bizza. I have been watching your posts with interest as my A6 also needs doing. The dilema is that also in really good nick, the car is an "S" Plate and so far I have been given a price of £1700 for the cams, followers etc plus anything else that needs replacing. If there is anything on top of that then it's the value of the car.

The question is can I get away with just the £700 odd cam kit? The car had a new water pump and cam belt 3000 miles ago and the Engine thermostat was changed about 25,000 miles ago. The car has done 101,000 now.

Having it checked over next week to see if anything else away from the engine needs doing. I also get the glow plug light flashing occasionally - the break lights check out so not sure what this can be.

 

[adamss24]

I'm really glad you got it sorted bizza. I have been watching your posts with interest as my A6 also needs doing. The dilema is that also in really good nick, the car is an "S" Plate and so far I have been given a price of £1700 for the cams, followers etc plus anything else that needs replacing. If there is anything on top of that then it's the value of the car.

The question is can I get away with just the £700 odd cam kit? The car had a new water pump and cam belt 3000 miles ago and the Engine thermostat was changed about 25,000 miles ago. The car has done 101,000 now.

Having it checked over next week to see if anything else away from the engine needs doing. I also get the glow plug light flashing occasionally - the break lights check out so not sure what this can be.

Look on ebay for the kolbenshmidt camshaft kits that Automotorsport sell. It's the best value for money cambelt kit and lifters and rockers are genuine INA jobbies !

 

[Mal]

Thanks Adam. MOT with no problems and Christmas is out of the way so back to the dilemma of fix it or sellit for parts.

I have asked around a few garages and no one is interested in replacing the cams for me if I supply them! Only esimate so far is £1000 plus vat parts and £400 plus Vat labour. I am in West Cornwall so if anybody knows anyone that would take this on please let me know. It drives ok but is down on power. The auto gearbox is also very reluctant to change up on any incline and can sit in 2nd at 3500 rpm unless I go to manual to change. I am guessing this is because it on down on torque but if there is also a potential problem with the gearbox please let me know! Cheers.