Forged Rod Questions

Y

Yohan87

Guest
I'm in the process of making up a shopping list for some IE rods but before I place an order I have some questions which I couldn't find answers to.


  1. Is it advised to fit new piston rings when doing the rods? If so do you have to hone the bores or is it a case of replace the rings and reinstall?
  2. Should the ARP head bolt kit be fitted instead of OEM head bolts and if so is this the correct kit? (ARP 18t Head Bolt Kit 10MM)
  3. I've heard that some people have had issues with Calico bearings over OE bearings. Which should be used for a 300-350bhp build? If Calico, are these the correct ones -> Calico Coated ACL Race Rod Bearing Set for VW/Audi 4 Cylinder

Finally this is my shopping list. Have I forgotten anything?


  1. Forged 144x20mm Rods (Rifle Drilled)
  2. Bearing Set (Calico or OE depending on the above)
  3. Redline Synthetic Assembly Lube
  4. Cylinder Head Gasket
  5. Head Bolt Kit (ARP or OE depending on the above)
  6. Oil Pan Sealant
  7. Piston Ring Set (Depending on the above)
  8. Engine Oil
  9. Oil Filter
  10. Oil Pickup Pipe
  11. Coolant
  12. Cambelt/Waterpump Kit

Many thanks.
 
I wouldn't bothered with ARP head studs, they're simply not needed at your level.

If you're going to the trouble of pulling your head off, and removing the pistons, for the sake of £50 it seems silly to me not to replace the piston rings, it's a few hours extra work, but well worth it.

You should hone the bores when fitting new rings yes, but this can be done with a flex hone tool, around £35, and a cordless drill.

:)
 
I currently use OE head bolts... its probably a good idea to change the rings as everything is apart, wear on rings varies but worth doing IMO... yes, re-hone is required as is checking the ring gaps of the new rings...

Bill uses Calico bearings and has them in stock...

<tuffty/>
 
Prawn said:
I wouldn't bothered with ARP head studs, they're simply not needed at your level.

If you're going to the trouble of pulling your head off, and removing the pistons, for the sake of £50 it seems silly to me not to replace the piston rings, it's a few hours extra work, but well worth it.

You should hone the bores when fitting new rings yes, but this can be done with a flex hone tool, around £35, and a cordless drill.

:)
Click to expand...

Thanks. I googled honing and saw a video on YouTube with some heavy duty machinery and thought "eek!".

Cordless drills I can handle.

<tuffty/> said:
I currently use OE head bolts... its probably a good idea to change the rings as everything is apart, wear on rings varies but worth doing IMO... yes, re-hone is required as is checking the ring gaps of the new rings...

Bill uses Calico bearings and has them in stock...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...


Thanks, OE head bolts it is. That will bring the cost down a bit.

badger5 said:
calicos in my engines.. never had or heard of issues...
where did you read this?
Click to expand...

From a chap on SCN who was trying to sell me a set of rods he hadn't used. All he said was "I wouldn't go after market shells as there was a guy who had a problem and the advise is to stick to OEM."
 
Yohan87 said:
From a chap on SCN who was trying to sell me a set of rods he hadn't used. All he said was "I wouldn't go after market shells as there was a guy who had a problem and the advise is to stick to OEM."
Click to expand...

so pretty much unsubstantiated urban myth bs then....
:shrug:
 
Shouldn't be a problem. I don't do things quickly and I'll be saving it for the Christmas holidays :)

So that answers the first 3 questions.

Re the shopping list, have I got everything?
 
Yohan87 said:
Re the shopping list, have I got everything?
Click to expand...

Just the gaskets for the inlet and exhaust manifold, and manifold - turbo. Plus if you intend to remove the turbo from the pay the crush washers for the oil / water lines, and a downpipe gasket.

Oh, and Bills phone number Tel:01453822880 :)
 
Ah yes gaskets and washers, thanks.

Got Bills number, shall be ordering a v2.2 TIP from him this week to replace my SFS prototype. I'd order the rods etc from B5 as well, but with relatives in the states, buying direct from IE and getting them to bring them over in a spare suitcase makes more sense.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Calico used on mine with no probs...

There was a guy on here who said after his install the pickup blocked and it was full of the calico coatings? inertia i think it was.. but thats not to say they were fitted incorrectly..
 
s3dave said:
Calico used on mine with no probs...

There was a guy on here who said after his install the pickup blocked and it was full of the calico coatings? inertia i think it was.. but thats not to say they were fitted incorrectly..
Click to expand...

Were they genuine Calico's?

Welly said:
Calicos on three engines in the last 2 years, no problems with any.
Click to expand...

I know that statement is meant to be reassuring but there is something about "three engines in the last 2 years" that has the opposite effect :D
 
I'm putting together a "Stage 2.5" spreadsheet at the moment with includes rods, everything needed to fit them, relentless manifold, large port head, 550 injectors, and WMI.

Just want to see what the price of every component needed in one place looks like. So far, scary lol.
 
Yohan87 said:
I'm putting together a "Stage 2.5" spreadsheet at the moment with includes rods, everything needed to fit them, relentless manifold, large port head, 550 injectors, and WMI.

Just want to see what the price of every component needed in one place looks like. So far, scary lol.
Click to expand...

Welcome....
slippery.png


<tuffty/>
 
That fcn sign is doing the rounds at the minute. The closer i get to collecting the S3 the more that damn sign is flashing in my head!
 
That sign is ****** appropriate!

Assuming all the the IE parts are bought in the states so no import tax, all the labour is done myself, and coupled with all the parts that would need replacing as part of the job, the total is still huge!

Integrated Engineering Order
Item
Part Number
Supplier
Price (GBP)
Forged 144x20 Rods (Rifle Drilled)IERV-14420Integrated Engineering£309.43
Calico Coated ACL Race Rod Bearing SetCAL-4B1606HIntegrated Engineering£55.69
Redline Synthetic Assembly LubeFLUIDS-REDLINE-ASSEMBLYIntegrated Engineering£8.43
Cylinder Head GasketOEM-18T-HGIntegrated Engineering£24.75
ARP 18T Head Bolt Kit 10mmARP-204-3901Integrated Engineering£0.00
OE Head Bolt SetOEM-18T-HBSET06AIntegrated Engineering£21.69
Oil Pan SealantFLUIDS-OEM-PANSEALIntegrated Engineering£11.42
Piston Ring SetOEM-18T-PRSETIntegrated Engineering£26.61
Shipping
UPS-GroundIntegrated Engineering£10.67
Sub-total£468.69
VAG Dealer Order
Item
Part Number
Supplier
Price (GBP)
Engine OilFuchs Titan Race Pro S 5W-40Opie Oils£42.16
Oil Filter068 115 561BVAG Dealer£10.28
Oil Pickup Pipe06A 115 251VAG Dealer£11.02
Oil Pickup Pipe SealN02 822 22VAG Dealer£4.50
Coolant (3L x G13)G013 A8J M1VAG Dealer£20.93
Cambelt Kit06A 198 119BVAG Dealer£124.31
Cambelt Damper06B 109 477VAG Dealer£107.42
Water Pump06A 121 012GXVAG Dealer£46.01
Small Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (OEM)058 129 717DVAG Dealer£4.30
Small Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (Phenolic)N/ABadger5 Ltd£0.00
Large Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (Phenolic)N/ABadger5 Ltd£0.00
Exhaust Manifold Gasket058 253 039LVAG Dealer£7.64
Turbo -> Downpipe Gasket8L9 253 115AVAG Dealer£6.66
Oil Feed Pipe Washers (x2)N01 381 28VAG Dealer£0.74
Coolant Line Washers (x2)N01 381 49VAG Dealer£0.91
Turbo -> Manifold Gasket06A 253 039HVAG Dealer£6.83
Turbo Oil Return Pipe Gasket058 145 757CVAG Dealer£2.60
Headgasket058 103 83QVAG Dealer£0.00
Sub-total£396.32
Total£865.01
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Might I suggest, if you're pulling the head, fitting new rods and new piston rings and shells, an oil pump wouldn't be a bad idea too, just to keep things healthy :)
 
And before you ask me, go to Euros or Ebay and get a topran pump. Cheaper than OEM but still good quality :p
 
Piston Ring SetOEM-18T-PRSETIntegrated Engineering£26.61

That will be per piston so 4 x required

<tuffty/>
 
Don't put that full race oil from the get go. You need to use dino oil during the running in procedure. Budget for 2 x 5 litres and 2 x oil filters just to cover the first 1000 miles IMHO One change after first warm up and one more around 500 miles later. Then 500 miles further on, go for the synth
 
Prawn said:
Might I suggest, if you're pulling the head, fitting new rods and new piston rings and shells, an oil pump wouldn't be a bad idea too, just to keep things healthy :)
Click to expand...

Oh yes, oil pump would be worth doing. Do it once and do it right and all that.

Jason.s said:
And before you ask me, go to Euros or Ebay and get a topran pump. Cheaper than OEM but still good quality
lick.gif
Click to expand...

Cheers Jason.

<tuffty/> said:
Piston Ring SetOEM-18T-PRSETIntegrated Engineering£26.61

That will be per piston so 4 x required

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Oops, thanks.

Byzan Pics said:
Don't put that full race oil from the get go. You need to use dino oil during the running in procedure. Budget for 2 x 5 litres and 2 x oil filters just to cover the first 1000 miles IMHO One change after first warm up and one more around 500 miles later. Then 500 miles further on, go for the synth
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice :)

S3 TAM said:
Small Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (Phenolic)N/ABadger5 Ltd£0.00
Large Port Inlet Manifold Gasket(Phenolic)N/ABadger5 Ltd£0.00


Didn't know bill was knocking these out for free. better get on the blower
rock.gif
Click to expand...


If only.

badger5 said:
nor me.. I best order some in from me.. cheaper than buying them in ????? lol
Click to expand...

I do have the prices for your Phenolics, just marked them as "0" on the spreadsheet so I didn't have 3x gaskets in the sub-total mix!
 
I guess it is cheap if you don't have to spend the money on other things :)

Here is the revised and updated list.

Integrated Engineering Order
Item
Part NumberSupplierPrice (GBP)Price (Options)
Forged 144x20 Rods (Rifle Drilled)IERV-14420Integrated Engineering£311.86$499.99
Calico Coated ACL Race Rod Bearing SetCAL-4B1606HIntegrated Engineering£56.13$89.99
Redline Synthetic Assembly LubeFLUIDS-REDLINE-ASSEMBLYIntegrated Engineering£8.50$13.62
Cylinder Head GasketOEM-18T-HGIntegrated Engineering£24.94$39.99
ARP 18T Head Bolt Kit 10mmARP-204-3901Integrated Engineering£0.00$124.99 (£77.96)
OE Head Bolt SetOEM-18T-HBSET06AIntegrated Engineering£21.83$34.99
Oil Pan SealantFLUIDS-OEM-PANSEALIntegrated Engineering£11.51$18.45
Piston Ring SetOEM-18T-PRSETIntegrated Engineering£107.26$171.96 (Check GSF)
ShippingUPS-GroundIntegrated Engineering£10.75$17.24
Sub-total
£552.78
VAG Order
Item
Part Number
Supplier
Price (GBP)
Price (Optio
Engine Oil 5L (After running in)Fuchs Titan Race Pro S 5W-40Opie Oils£42.16
Engine Oil x2 5L (For running in)Millers CRO 10w-40 Competition Running In OilOpie Oils£43.42
Oil Filter (x3)068 115 561BVAG Dealer£11.37£10.28 (for x1)
Oil Pickup Pipe06A 115 251VAG Dealer£9.41£11.02
Oil Pickup Pipe SealN02 822 22VAG Dealer£2.53£4.50
Coolant (3L x G13)G013 A8J M1VAG Dealer£13.78£20.93
Cambelt Kit06A 198 119BVAG Dealer£78.85£124.31
Cambelt Damper06B 109 477VAG Dealer£75.30£107.42
Water Pump06A 121 012GXVAG Dealer£29.17£46.01
Small Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (OEM)058 129 717DVAG Dealer£3.05£4.30
Small Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (Phenolic)N/ABadger5 Ltd£0.00£65.75
Large Port Inlet Manifold Gasket (Phenolic)N/ABadger5 Ltd£0.00£65.75
Exhaust Manifold Gasket058 253 039LVAG Dealer£5.41£7.64
Turbo -> Downpipe Gasket8L9 253 115AVAG Dealer£4.84£6.66
Oil Feed Pipe Washers (x10)N01 381 28VAG Dealer£2.15£0.74 (for x2)
Coolant Line Washers (x10)N01 381 49VAG Dealer£2.56£0.91 (for x2)
Turbo -> Manifold Gasket06A 253 039HVAG Dealer£4.84£6.83
Turbo Oil Return Pipe Gasket058 145 757CVAG Dealer£1.85£2.60
Headgasket058 103 83QVAG Dealer£27.79£52.61
Oil Pump06A 115 105BVAG Dealer£139.91£86.40 (£64.80) - ECP
Sub-total
£498.39
Total
£1,051.17

Obviously this is a fairly comprehensive list and certain items may not be requried or could be obtained elsewhere for a bit cheaper. It still gives a rough idea of what's needed and the cost though for anybody else considering it :)
 
Thanks for that list Yohan....interesting to see all the prices in one place along with the part numbers and where your buying it all from. I am toying with the idea of Forged Rods for 2013
 
You're welcome mate.

Normally I just go ahead and order these things and don't look at the receipts but I wanted to see what this one looked like on paper. The lesson is, just buy things lol.
 
That's a good list I'll find it useful. I've heard a lot of people like to fit manual cambelt tensioners for reliability reasons. Do you think they're necessary?
 
ReDBull said:
That's a good list I'll find it useful. I've heard a lot of people like to fit manual cambelt tensioners for reliability reasons. Do you think they're necessary?
Click to expand...

Only really needed for high revving builds with fancy bits like supertech valves and springs, cams etc... the std damper compresses under the load... if going down that route you would also be considering dowling the crank pulley too...

<tuffty/>
 
is there any reason your changing pistons? what power are std capable of handling? also what kind of power is the crank good for?
cheers
 
audi upgrades
The crank and pistions will handle plenty, it's the rods that are the weak link.
 
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