Reesy's Big Turbo A3

You're a nutter!

Deciding to fit rods on a Monday with a trackday on the saturday? haha. Not changing rings or running anything in then?
 
Prawn said:
You're a nutter!

Deciding to fit rods on a Monday with a trackday on the saturday? haha. Not changing rings or running anything in then?
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Not fitting them on a Monday, they are being fitted on Tuesday!

Not doing the rings mate. If we get it apart and they are rough, I assume i'll run it at ADI, then get some rings and AGU pistons and another head gasket at a later date. Engine looked in good nick when we had a brief look so hoping that's not necessary..

Nothing to run in really, so going to drive as I mean to go on unless I am missing something.
 
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superkarl said:
I hope your rods fly through the block and hit you square in the nose. Either way I'm going to hit you square in the nose
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I thought you'd comment. I should still be able to sort out the rods order, or get the same deal for you if you want? Whatsapp me. This was a rush job, and apparently they haven't had any rifle drilled in for a couple of months, hence why i've gone non drilled.
 
So in 3 hours the following progress has been made:

Blown up the Leon.

Removed head with mani in situ.
Removed mani
Fitted both manis to AGU head
Taken sump off
Cleaned up sump
Rods and pistons out
Rods and pistons seperated and cleaned up

All thats left tomorrow is to fit the rods, and then put it all back together.

Easy, especially when someone else is doing the work...

Could still see the hone marks which is good. The pins were fine as well, so nothing to worry about.

More info on the Leon.

Ben wound the actuator out until it was boosting 24psi in higher gears, then he decided that he would wind it out a fair few turns more.. After letting it warm up, we go through first, second, back to first for the junction.. Out the junction, into second and open it up..Never seen a boost gauge move so fast and then a bang. Looking out the mirror all we could see was smoke... Turned it round and in less then .2 of a mile it has coughed all 4+ litres of oil out the zorst.. Ben will post some pictures later, but basically it's ******. Good job the turbo was cheap and spares are readily available.
 
ohps. fail!

Still, epic work on getting all that lot done in an evening though! Ben really does work fast doesn't he?
 
Lets put it this way. He does engine works better then he does winding out actuators.
 
30psi really is the limit of a ko3s' structural integrity. :-b
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Hasnt it been proven numerous times that fitting undrilled rods is just asking for trouble? They might have been cheap, but that doesnt make up for having to do the whole job again with another set of rods when those ones wear out...
 
aragorn said:
Hasnt it been proven numerous times that fitting undrilled rods is just asking for trouble? They might have been cheap, but that doesnt make up for having to do the whole job again with another set of rods when those ones wear out...
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not really. One they weren't that cheap so that wasn't the benefit. Secondly the only car that had issues was tufftys, which for the amount of cars that will have had these fitted is not a bad ratio, and could be down to other things besides the rods themselves.

welly had signs of wear on his pins, but that was after 40k in a car pushing out twice what it should. Unless you were to fit new pins, I don't think you can categorically put it down to 1 thing.
 
badger5 said:
nope
he's hardly alone

its an ever growing club

the worlds bigger than what you just read on forums/asn etc etc

rifle drilled ftw - its there for a very good reason
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Is that why you've only just moved over to them and afaik still offer non rd as an option, despite knowing that they are prone to failure?
 
He`ll still offer them because people like you will still want them. Im sure Bill will advise RD rods when possible but he`s not going to refuse a sale or stop ordering them if people want to take the risk of non RD rods. Aslong as he`s explained the reasons and the customer still wants to go ahead with it then he`s covered incase they come back and say the engines snuffed it or something.
 
Jason.s said:
He`ll still offer them because people like you will still want them. Im sure Bill will advise RD rods when possible but he`s not going to refuse a sale or stop ordering them if people want to take the risk of non RD rods. Aslong as he`s explained the reasons and the customer still wants to go ahead with it then he`s covered incase they come back and say the engines snuffed it or something.
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Really?

So knowing that they will fail, but telling someone that is the case makes it o.k? Total bull****. If you have a product that you have such strong views against, you wouldn't sell it.
 
I bought non drilled rods purely for budget reasons... yes I was aware that it could lead to premature small end wear and Bill informed me at the time (like he did anyone that bought rods from him)

On builds such as his race Ibiza where you use new pistons and new pins the problem is not as bad as fitting to pins that have already seen nearly 100k miles of service... if I had fitted ND rods to a brand new engine with new pistons etc then I don't think I would have had the issues I had so soon after the build.. but they would have happened at some point...

Race built engines that spend their lives at higher RPM, do little actual mileage and have regular oil changes suffer less and Bill's pins from the previous engine build did not show as much wear as mine did... plus I believe they were tool steel pins rather than the more normal case hardened variety..

The reasons to move to rifle drilled over non drilled is fairly obvious imo... its analogous to the whole 'why fit rods' debate... when the engine were new then rod failure was not evident and therefore rod changes were deemed unnecessary... now with mileage and associated wear, rods are becoming a requirement when chasing power... same with rifle drilled over non drilled... fit new bits to old engine and you shift the failure point

<tuffty/>
 
Basics of it are:

My car has 285-290 bhp and over 300lb/ft of torque.

If I change these rods in 2 years/25k (about the same) I'm pretty sure an OEM rod would have bent before then. This is not a solution for the rest of my life, it's something for a couple of years, assuming I still have this engine in some form of vehicle then.

I got non rd ones as they were in the country and I plan on tracking my car at ADI.
 
superkarl said:
id be checking the pins and making sure they are within tolerance. if not, getting brand spankers in there aswell.
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I wouldn't re-fit the pins if they were worn. I have lots of spare pins here in case they had signs of wear. But they are in very good condition on Reesy's, I suspect it has very low mileage looking at the condition of everything on it.
 
Personally i believe it depends how the cars driven.

The undrilled rods rely on splash lube and spray from the piston oil squirters, however the piston squirters shut off at lower engine RPM's (oil pressure related) meaning on a daily driven car that spends a lot of time driving at "normal" engine speeds will see the pins with very little lube as at low speeds splash lube is fairly limited too.

On a race car, or a track car, or any other motor thats driven hard all the time, theres a LOT more lubrication getting to the small end from splash and piston squirters as the engines constantly doing high RPM.


When i bought my rods, it was about $80 extra to buy the drilled ones, at that money surely its a no brainer for a daily driver...
 
aragorn said:
Personally i believe it depends how the cars driven.

The undrilled rods rely on splash lube and spray from the piston oil squirters, however the piston squirters shut off at lower engine RPM's (oil pressure related) meaning on a daily driven car that spends a lot of time driving at "normal" engine speeds will see the pins with very little lube as at low speeds splash lube is fairly limited too.

On a race car, or a track car, or any other motor thats driven hard all the time, theres a LOT more lubrication getting to the small end from splash and piston squirters as the engines constantly doing high RPM.


When i bought my rods, it was about $80 extra to buy the drilled ones, at that money surely its a no brainer for a daily driver...
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I can see the point, and had I wanted to wait a couple of months (the time I would have waited to get the rods from the company i planned on getting them from in the USA, or even 3 weeks from Hong Kong) I could have got RD rods for about £20 more then these cost me, so the money was not an issue.. The issue was time.

As the figures I stated above show, the car was more then likely going to bend a rod. Everyone I spoke to either joked that they were amazed it hadn't or were betting it was about to and was generally one of the first topics of convo regarding the car.

It might not have done, but given the power and torque it produces I would say it was more likely than not.

Bearing in mind that if I bent a rod I would be without a car whilst I sourced a block, rd rods (or fitted non rd in a rush which leaves me in the same boat but with a lot more cost) possibly a turbo as well, then paid to have this engine out and another one fitted after it had all been built up means that if in 18 months to 2 years, assuming I still have the car, their is some wear it's not that bad.
 
Surely there are plenty UK suppliers (bill?) who stock drilled rods?

I ordered mine direct from PagParts and they took two weeks to arrive.

Surely if your concerned for the engine then you just drive sensibly and dont smoke around with your boot welded to the carpet until the rods that you need arrive?
 
My none RD Rods have been in nearly 5 years..... Go figure....;)

It got overhauled the begining of this year for new rings / oil pump/ and pickup and there was zero wear... on pins or shells
 
Is that not the same as saying "my stock rods have been running 290lbft for 5 years..."

I just dont get the reasoning, hes saying he had to buy them quickly due to time constraints, rather than just driving sensibly until the better ones arrived...
 
I'm confused.
You got drilled rods and non-drilled rods.

People buy non-drilled rods and not had any issues but people have bought them and had issues, so everyone must go for drilled rods now cause a hand full of people had issues?

Well then, I'm off to buy a bulletproof vest cause people been shot, I'm also going to not drink milk because people have became lactose intolerant, while I'm at it I'm not going to drive cause people crashed and hell I won't buy a BMW cause some people have reported about the rear sub frames fall off.

He bought them he's happy.
Some people have issued, some people have not.
He's taken this on board and picked the product that suited his wallet, time and needs.

Lets move on and pester the yut to get some pics of his build.
 
aragorn said:
Is that not the same as saying "my stock rods have been running 290lbft for 5 years..."
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Erm.... No why would it be? im saying none RD rods are not automatically destined for failure there are other factors and variables...

Of course it makes sense to get the best out there, but at the time mine were fitted it was not seen as an issue, or at least there was no talk on various forums about it...
It does seem to have been highlighted the last year or 2 and im saying im unaffected thats all....up to press...:icon_thumright:
 
trackday coming up, didn't want to destroy car, makes enough sense to me.

I wouldn't have done it that way, but I can understand. Reesy doesn't cover huge mileage, and he's not developing monster power, so for the immediate peace of mind, if it lasts 2 years, then needs a set of RD rods and a rebuild he's done pretty well from it.

it's done now anyway, he's ordered the parts and stripped it down, so we may as well move on :laugh:
 
aragorn said:
Is that not the same as saying "my stock rods have been running 290lbft for 5 years..."

I just dont get the reasoning, hes saying he had to buy them quickly due to time constraints, rather than just driving sensibly until the better ones arrived...
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Not really. Mainly because these won't be in the car 5 years, and if they are I won't have it and they will have failed by then anyway

I am booked in for ADI, have a large port sat waiting to fit and rods can bend at anytime, unless I ran it on actuator pressure which is both gay and a complete waste of all that has gone into it..

ScottB5 said:
I'm confused.
You got drilled rods and non-drilled rods.

People buy non-drilled rods and not had any issues but people have bought them and had issues, so everyone must go for drilled rods now cause a hand full of people had issues?

Well then, I'm off to buy a bulletproof vest cause people been shot, I'm also going to not drink milk because people have became lactose intolerant, while I'm at it I'm not going to drive cause people crashed and hell I won't buy a BMW cause some people have reported about the rear sub frames fall off.

He bought them he's happy.
Some people have issued, some people have not.
He's taken this on board and picked the product that suited his wallet, time and needs.

Lets move on and pester the yut to get some pics of his build.
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Thanks Scott, although you're examples are slightly extreme..
 
Prawn said:
trackday coming up, didn't want to destroy car, makes enough sense to me.

I wouldn't have done it that way, but I can understand. Reesy doesn't cover huge mileage, and he's not developing monster power, so for the immediate peace of mind, if it lasts 2 years, then needs a set of RD rods and a rebuild he's done pretty well from it.

it's done now anyway, he's ordered the parts and stripped it down, so we may as well move on :laugh:
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This.

Apart from the power bit. It's going to be close on 300 and almost as much torque as Tuffty's. That's not too bad, although not going so well for Fred..
 
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Reesy said:
This.

Apart from the power bit. It's going to be close on 300 and almost as much torque as Tuffty's.
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Like I said, not monster power :laugh:

300bhp is so 2012.... every ******* has it now. it's all about 350 in 2013!
 
Reesy said:
This.

Apart from the power bit. It's going to be close on 300 and almost as much torque as Tuffty's. That's not too bad, although not going so well for Fred..
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You can't compare my power to yours by peak figures... its area under the curve... take Westy's... he made over 300hp at 5k then it drops off... mine doesn't... my peak power is over 7k rpm... mine also holds most of my torque from 5k to redline... BT delivery it totally different K04 (std or hybrid)

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
You can't compare my power to yours by peak figures... its area under the curve... take Westy's... he made over 300hp at 5k then it drops off... mine doesn't... my peak power is over 7k rpm... mine also holds most of my torque from 5k to redline... BT delivery it totally different K04 (std or hybrid)

<tuffty/>
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I was only joking, I know your car would never keep up with mine!
 
So to the whole rods and large port issue.

It's gone alright.

No real drama. In less then 8 after work hours the car has had a large port head and rods fitted to it. Started up first turn of the key (after getting the oil flowing first) and left it idling for a while

Took it for a gentle drive to make sure it wasn't overheating/about to blow up and all was good. Took it for some runs to log it and it has some new characteristics. It's slightly laggier, nothing horrible but noticeable. It also made 288bhp at about 3-4psi less then it was making 285 with the small port. It doesn't spike at all really and seems happier for the large port.

Think i'm going to leave it running 18-20psi for ADI, then stick a few more psi through it after that. Logs all looked O.K, absolutely no timing at all so room for play their as well.

Also fitted the upper S3 heatshield, so that solves another one of my worries.
 
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Awesome news Chris :) very fast working indeed! Crazy progress given how long it took you to do anything before you met Ben :p

I believe vag moved to the small port head to get a more even spread of torque across the range, so your comments a out lag sound a out right. I remember going from my smal port daily to the large port track car the lag was always noticble, but top end felt much better on the large port :)

siunds like its going well for you, enjoy ADI!!
 
Prawn said:
Awesome news Chris :) very fast working indeed! Crazy progress given how long it took you to do anything before you met Ben :p

I believe vag moved to the small port head to get a more even spread of torque across the range, so your comments a out lag sound a out right. I remember going from my smal port daily to the large port track car the lag was always noticble, but top end felt much better on the large port :)

siunds like its going well for you, enjoy ADI!!
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I know. I had so much disposable income back in those days :(

I'm sure I'll get used to it soon enough, but it seems to be better and with the possibility of more boost and timing after ADI, seems like all is well under the bonnet. Either that or I crank it up, get a dyno reading then drop it back to avoid me joining Fred hanging from the rafters of a garage when something goes wrong.

Cheers mate, should be good.
 
Good work in 8 hrs. It can take longer thn that to clean all the crud from the sump.rocker cover and pistns LOL
 
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