Legislation that could ban our sport/modifications

dancuz said:
This looks to be pretty serious - anyone in the trade know anything more?

Bit more info: PistonHeads Headlines - Modified car 'Armageddon': don't panic. Yet.
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I have been following that thread quiet closely today it it seems as though if the modifications have approved testing on them then the mods should be ok....it looks as though the legislation is trying to stamp out all the cheap copied items that have not been tested and could be more dangerous or harmful than OE items
 
[h=1]So how do things change with this ‘proposal’?[/h] Firstly all vehicles other than clearly defined Historic must undergo a roadworthiness test and part of that will ensure that the vehicle meets its original Type Approval, i.e. is totally standard. This is all we need
 
i think if it happens every one should go postal...

they don't have the right to ban a hobby that is all over the world, also if they ban modding cars the police force will be screwed considering there hole fleet of cars or tuned
 
the above is a quote from the proposed legislation
 
coatesy said:
i think if it happens every one should go postal...

they don't have the right to ban a hobby that is all over the world, also if they ban modding cars the police force will be screwed considering there hole fleet of cars or tuned
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Police and military are exempt
 
We have had it so easy in the uk to date compared to the rest of europe. But now they are trying to force there restrictions onto us, but there's not way they will be able to implement all rules europewide. Weren't the EU banging on about make MOTs every 2 years also.... where is the sense in that?.... It'll never happen.


I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve as i wonder how many accidents occur because of not certified parts, my thought would be not very many, and to implement such a ban would take alot of money and restructuring.
 
Load of ****e, itll never get passed, theres too many implecations involved.
 
One of those amazing decisions ****** up at the European Union, probably in a bored afternoon after one of the delegates had either been smoked by a modified car on a trip into Strasbourg.

Busy bodies making literally unenforceable rules.

  1. How do they intend to police it
  2. How do they determine what is a factory spec mod and what is aftermarket
  3. If they impound / tow away all modified cars, where will they store them all
  4. How can they determine that a panel filter from say ITG is worse / better / classifiable as a modification say in comparison to OEM
  5. What is their pure definition of modification? Can you add seat covers, air fresheners, deviate from manufacturer specced tyres; it basically means all aftermarket products (e.g. G&S supplied EBC brake pads would be modifications...)

Either the head of Ford has become an EU delegate and wants to keep servicing in house, or the EU were having a very bad day at the office (I guess that's what happens when you get a load of disconnected overpaid suits together with no real world view). Politicians meddling into the personal freedoms of those with hobbies rather than dealing with real world issues.
 
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What are they going to do to the people that have already modified cars? will they be forced into fitting standard parts?

Well they better pay for it doing to my car and they better get someone to do it as i arn't doing it
 
Its probably as Warren quite eloquently says people with little better to do with their time or job creationism - a common trait of our own Civil Service and most probably replicated amongst our EU counterparts.

Having said that, I reckon there could be some scope to define a "dangerous modification" and having seen some of the s**t to grace car forums, supermarket car parks and Southend sea front over the years i'm inclined to agree (blue fluffy engine covers (we all enjoyed that one didn't we!), over stretched tyres, windows blacked out to ridiculous levels?) we've all seen it and would probably struggle to argue that some of it is actually potentially dangerous...how about the thread from yesterday regarding Power Pulleys for instance?

Either way, it's not good news for Halfords or Vin Diesel
 
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this makes me very nervous.. and I can see it sliding thru into law because of ignorence of those that would allow it...

scarey... 1000's of people are employed in vehicle after market, myself included, with many millions of revenue to HMC earned from this.

it would be stupid to be allowed to happen, however, this country is pretty fecked up at times and politicians I have little faith in..

fingers crossed it does'nt happen..
 
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I think a few big names in the industry such as K&N, Forge etc. Might have something to say as well as places such as badger5. Your talking 10ns of millions pounds lost to a silly ruling as well as taking millions of peoples right to have a hobby. I have one hobby, it's my car, i'm now 32 but since 17 i have allways tinkered in some way with a car.
 
beanoir said:
Its probably as Warren quite eloquently says people with little better to do with their time or job creationism - a common trait of our own Civil Service and most probably replicated amongst our EU counterparts.

Having said that, I reckon there could be some scope to define a "dangerous modification" and having seen some of the s**t to grace car forums, supermarket car parks and Southend sea front over the years i'm inclined to agree (blue fluffy engine covers (we all enjoyed that one didn't we!), over stretched tyres, windows blacked out to ridiculous levels?) we've all seen it and would probably struggle to argue that some of it is actually potentially dangerous...how about the thread from yesterday regarding Power Pulleys for instance?

Either way, it's not good news for Halfords or Vin Diesel
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The fast and the not so furious, London drift, staring vin diluted diesel (to care for the enviroment)
 
cjsuk said:
I think a few big names in the industry such as K&N, Forge etc. Might have something to say as well as places such as badger5. Your talking 10ns of millions pounds lost to a silly ruling as well as taking millions of peoples right to have a hobby. I have one hobby, it's my car, i'm now 32 but since 17 i have allways tinkered in some way with a car.
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We're all there buddy, but just because it's considered by a few of us as a hobby and that an industry exists around it doesn't make much difference unfortunately.

I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that cars are actually pretty dangerous in the wrong hands, or even in the right hands sometimes and so many of us believe we are experts. There is currently nothing to say that you can't run a Nissan Micra with 1200bhp but on the standard brakes, tyres and suspension - extreme example perhaps but you see the point, it's a danger to other road users.
 
I suspect we'll see a trend towards TUV style approval for aftermarket tuning products, especially those that effect emissions, and safety such as suspension and braking.
 
Well I'll put my engine back together ha lol flipping hope it don't happen prob happen two days after I finish mowing my look.
 
Good thread Big Bad, yet another reason why we should get as far away from Europe as we possibly can!

That said, some comments are true, there is. Itching to stop you having a 1200 Ho mixes, and so many. Are that are modified at home are dangerous. But so are many cars worked on at professiOnal outfits. I'm thinking of wheels falling off in particular after a garage service! Dad knows what I'm thinking of....

Sadly, whilst the law makes no provision for common sense, we can only hope that in this instance it will prevail!
 
Prawn said:
Good thread Big Bad, yet another reason why we should get as far away from Europe as we possibly can!

That said, some comments are true, there is. Itching to stop you having a 1200 Ho mixes, and so many. Are that are modified at home are dangerous. But so are many cars worked on at professiOnal outfits. I'm thinking of wheels falling off in particular after a garage service! Dad knows what I'm thinking of....

Sadly, whilst the law makes no provision for common sense, we can only hope that in this instance it will prevail!
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I wanted to get away from Europe and all of the associated ******** ,so bought a house outside the EU, now the idiots are going to join the community. Does anyone have any experience in buying property in Cape Verde
 
cjsuk said:
I think a few big names in the industry such as K&N, Forge etc. Might have something to say as well as places such as badger5. Your talking 10ns of millions pounds lost to a silly ruling as well as taking millions of peoples right to have a hobby. I have one hobby, it's my car, i'm now 32 but since 17 i have always tinkered in some way with a car.
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I totally agree that many companies and individuals might have something to say. The sad truth is that very few people have said anything, primarily because they did not know. This "proposal" was sneaked in last year via a European website that only had 9,300 odd replies from all concerned, ie, companies and individuals and jo public in general. More tomorrow.
 
aragorn said:
I suspect we'll see a trend towards TUV style approval for aftermarket tuning products, especially those that effect emissions, and safety such as suspension and braking.
Click to expand...

Actually a TUV approval standard wouldn't be a bad thing when you look at some of the tat being sold on e-bay from the far east (cheap coilovers spring to mind). Add into the mix that many go on to fit the kit themselves and you can end up with some pretty unroadworthy pieces of **** on the roads.

I've always been astonished by the untested / unregulated tat people will bolt to a car that will be used in the worst of Britains weather at all speeds. When you think you have 4 contact points on the road the size of a piece of paper to keep you in safe / in control of your car, there's a slither of the regulation that I buy into, but thats where it ends.

So law will allow the sale of remould tyres, but you can't have a panel filter. Genius!
 
Prawn said:
Good thread Big Bad, yet another reason why we should get as far away from Europe as we possibly can!

That said, some comments are true, there is nothing to stop you having a 1200bhp micra, and so many cars that are modified at home are dangerous. But so are many cars worked on at professional outfits, I'm thinking of wheels falling off in particular after a garage service! Dad knows what I'm thinking of....

Sadly, whilst the law makes no provision for common sense, we can only hope that in this instance it will prevail!
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, either a few too many beers, or my Iphone was on the blink last night (nothing to do with fat fingers and a small keyboard) so I've edited the above to make it read in English!
 
warren_S3 said:
Actually a TUV approval standard wouldn't be a bad thing when you look at some of the tat being sold on e-bay from the far east (cheap coilovers spring to mind).
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Whilst this is very true, and a TUV style system would be no bad thing moving forwards, I think it's incorperating britains HUGE amount of already modified cars into the system that would be the issue.

Sending every single modified car in britain in for an individual test to register and log every modification would not be cheap, and I don't see how the cost of this can be forced upon the vehicle owner just because some EU **** decides to try and outlaw them.

if the government were to try and offer some sort of free initial test to bring all existing modified vehicles into line then perhaps the idea could work, but that'll never happen either.

In Germany you could probably build a car just like you could in England, so long as you have TUV certs for every single part, and have them added to the logbook as you go along the process.

If you took a UK modified car to germany though, and went for a single vehicle approval, the cost would be astronimical! A guy Dad and I know had a UK registered MX5 turbo out in Germany, which he had to sell because the cost of an individual vehicle test would have been almost 2x the value of the vehicle.

Most things on my audi would conform I reckon, as all the brakes / suspension are OEM parts from better models, the cage is FIA/MSA certified, as are the seats etc etc, but things like the relentless engine parts and ebay intercooler, and water meth injection with tank inside the cab would never be allowed on a TUV type test
 
warren_S3 said:
Actually a TUV approval standard wouldn't be a bad thing when you look at some of the tat being sold on e-bay from the far east (cheap coilovers spring to mind). Add into the mix that many go on to fit the kit themselves and you can end up with some pretty unroadworthy pieces of **** on the roads.

I've always been astonished by the untested / unregulated tat people will bolt to a car that will be used in the worst of Britains weather at all speeds. When you think you have 4 contact points on the road the size of a piece of paper to keep you in safe / in control of your car, there's a slither of the regulation that I buy into, but thats where it ends.

So law will allow the sale of remould tyres, but you can't have a panel filter. Genius!
Click to expand...

well TUV in terms of maps = lean as you like, as implicit in that approval is non adjustment of emissions... so they cannot adjust fueling so dont.

unless they regulate the cheap poor quality stuff off the likes of ebay, and other tinterweb buying sites, I dont see legislation changing peoples habits wanting to buy as cheap as poss, and bolting it onto the car. No more than others dont maintain their cars which render them unsafe..

Its pretty fraught with issues...
 
Ah yes, I'd totally forgotten about scary german remaps that run 0.9x fuelling across the board :S eek.
 
On reading some of the sentences in the proposed legislation it appears that they might render all cars that have been modified, ie. "not as the vehicle left the factory" illegal, and we all know if our cars have been changed. Technically a go faster stripe would be illegal. Great.
Furthermore the onus of the legality of the vehicle could be passed onto the owner and the car could not be used until proved that it met all requirements. Possibly 2k cost for a 1k car, (that comment is just dreamt up figure). Who knows, if that came to be and there were 5 million cars modified which weren't worth the effort or money to change, the greens have won once again. Overcrowding and pollution reduced in one sweep of the hand. Dont forget people said George Orwell was a scaremonger with a good imagination .

Is this scaremongering, I don't know. Is it a possibility, I dont know. Was George Orwell right, ?????
 
George Orwell was right, he was a pretty smart (and brave) fella.

I don't think this is scaremongering though, I thinks there is some genuine moves to try and regulate what people do with their cars. The issue is more about how and if they can be bothered to implement it fairly and efficiently without being heavy handed, unfortunately as history has shown us they are unlikely to be able to do so and we are more likely to end up with either a blanket approach to enforcing the legislation, or not at all.
 
What would they class as modified then? I can think of sh*t loads of cars that come from the factory with tuning packages already installed...

Mini Cooper S works
Range Rover Overfinch
Focus RS 500
Mercedes Brabus
Mercedes AMG
THE ****** VW TRANSPORTER BRABUS!!!
Vauxhall Irmscher
BMW Alpina


And not forgetting the S3 MTM :D

Where do they draw the line? People like Bill would register themselves somewhere in some kind of loophole in the law, still do their jobs and modify cars and re-register the car as, say an Audi S3 Quattro Badger edition... Make them black and white and sell them for £10,000 more ;) No offence intended Bill lol
 
those are all factory/dealer fit tuning packs....

i'm a fan of tuv approval standard for all critical parts that keep the car safe,
 
I think it'll effect the small guy 10x more than the big guy.

Larger companies will simply sought approval for fitting products and the like, what we forget, is that most tuning products currently available already meet the type approval standards for countries like Germany, where this kind of system already exists. if you buy brake hoses from Goodridge, you can pay a few quid extra to get the TUV certs with them.

The UK is not the only market for tuning parts, and as such more parts sold by international companies already meet the required approval standards for more strict companies, they simply don't provide the associated documentation when sold in the UK.

Big firms like AMD and JBS will end up with some form of licenced approval to fit approved parts, and the move will be made towards professional work only. In Italy it's already illegal to work on your own car!

Whether smaller firms will be able to afford the costs of such changes is a worry.

This will not be the end for modified cars all together, I simply refuse to accept that as an even remote possiblity, but it could spell big trouble those those already owning heavily modified cars which can never be returned to standard.

I guess we'll be buying a bigger trailler and doing more Airfield days Dad?
 
Prawn said:
I think it'll effect the small guy 10x more than the big guy.

Larger companies will simply sought approval for fitting products and the like, what we forget, is that most tuning products currently available already meet the type approval standards for countries like Germany, where this kind of system already exists. if you buy brake hoses from Goodridge, you can pay a few quid extra to get the TUV certs with them.

The UK is not the only market for tuning parts, and as such more parts sold by international companies already meet the required approval standards for more strict companies, they simply don't provide the associated documentation when sold in the UK.

Big firms like AMD and JBS will end up with some form of licenced approval to fit approved parts, and the move will be made towards professional work only. In Italy it's already illegal to work on your own car!

Whether smaller firms will be able to afford the costs of such changes is a worry.

This will not be the end for modified cars all together, I simply refuse to accept that as an even remote possiblity, but it could spell big trouble those those already owning heavily modified cars which can never be returned to standard.

I guess we'll be buying a bigger trailler and doing more Airfield days Dad?
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And guess who owns one of these beasties
 
yes. quite :(

We'll see what happens. I think some form of log booking will take place, like TUV, where every alteration is listed on an approved legal document. For those cars that are already modified, I think it'll be a case of some form of conformity / safety inspection like the IVA, and a fee to pay to get everything registered on the logbook. Those mods which would not pass an IVA will be outlawed.

i still can't help thinking it'll be a while before any of this could be implemented though.
 
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