First 3rd gear logs, don't look right.

[jitvv]

Hi Guys,

Since i bought the car, i have always felt that the map is not quite right, can someone please have a look, seems like its only making about 237bhp. EGT seems high, but if anyone can give more advise that would be great,

Saturday	4	August	2012	18:36:52:47470	VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3 (x64)	Data version: 20120401
8N0 906 018 J	1.8L R4/5VT G 0003
	Group A:	'112				Group B:	'003				Group C:	'020
		Temperature	Load	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		RPM	Mass Flow	Load	Ign. Timing		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
	TIME					TIME					TIME
Marker	STAMP	°C	%			STAMP	/min	g/s	%	°BTDC	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW
	0.01	620	0			0.29	2120	44.58	92.9	14.3	0.59	0	0	0	0
	0.9	630	0			1.21	2440	58.56	98	14.3	1.51	0	0	0	0
	1.81	645	0			2.11	2800	79.94	100	12.8	2.41	0	0	0	0
	2.72	675	0			3.02	3280	125.36	100	8.3	3.32	0	0	0	0
	3.62	700	0			3.92	3800	146.61	100	6	4.22	0	0	0	0
	4.53	765	0			4.83	4320	164.25	100	10.5	5.13	0	0	0	0
	5.43	810	0			5.73	4840	167.58	100	10.5	6.03	0	0	0	0
	6.34	850	0			6.64	5320	176.75	100	11.3	6.94	0	0	0	0
	7.24	870	0			7.54	5680	180.22	100	14.3	7.85	3	3	0	3
	8.16	885	0			8.45	6080	187.44	100	12.8	8.76	3	3	0	3
	9.05	900	0			9.35	6400	187.14	100	16.5	9.66	2.3	2.3	0	2.3
	9.97	910	0			10.27	6680	189.44	100	15	10.56	2.3	2.3	0	5.3

Saturday	4	August	2012	18:34:08:47470	VCDS Version: Release 11.11.3 (x64)	Data version: 20120401
8N0 906 018 J	1.8L R4/5VT G 0003
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'031				Group C:	'115
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow	Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME
Marker	STAMP	/min	%	ms	g/s	STAMP					STAMP	/min	%	mbar	mbar
	0.62	2480	117.3	10.54	57.44	0.01	0.984	0.992			0.31	2360	110.5	2150	1360
	1.52	2840	139.1	12.92	78.42	0.92	1.023	0.992			1.21	2680	130.8	2360	1650
	2.42	3280	191.7	16.66	126.5	1.82	0.977	0.992			2.12	3120	172.9	2500	2070
	3.33	3800	191.7	19.72	155.44	2.73	1.016	0.992			3.03	3640	191.7	2550	2540
	4.24	4400	191.7	19.38	169.47	3.63	0.938	0.938			3.93	4200	191.7	2550	2500
	5.14	4960	187.2	18.02	176.92	4.54	0.914	0.899			4.84	4720	191.7	2510	2350
	6.05	5400	178.2	17.34	182.42	5.44	0.883	0.891			5.74	5240	182.7	2430	2240
	6.95	5840	168.4	16.32	188.67	6.35	0.883	0.891			6.66	5680	169.9	2360	2040
	7.87	6240	160.9	15.64	184.72	7.25	0.899	0.891			7.55	6120	160.9	2320	1950
	8.76	6600	148.1	14.28	187.47	8.16	0.86	0.891			8.46	6480	153.4	2270	1940
	9.67	6920	141.4	13.94	186.53	9.06	0.899	0.891			9.36	6840	143.6	2220	1920

If i need to log any other Blocks then let me know.



Cheers

Jit

 

[badger5]

189g/s for your level of boost looks low - 236bhp worth... lots of boost request and leaner than I would set fueling

if you did 4/5/6th gear logs you would be in egt protection no doubt

boost looks slow to rise for a k04 (tired perhaps)

 

[jitvv]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your reply, What do you reckon is wrong the MAP? or is there a way to testing if the turbo is tired? she has done 124k miles.


Cheers

Jit

 

[badger5]

maps asks for boost turbo's slow to get there.. thats not the map, its the turbo
its ~400-500rpm slower than healthy turbos from your log.... and airflow is also low..

 

[jitvv]

How can i get the airflow up? would a new tip be worth while?

Cheers

 

[superkarl]

the low figure questions your maf, but its not mega low. a TIP would no doubt improve airflow, but whats to say the maf on the car wont still hinder your airflow.

 

[badger5]

How can i get the airflow up? would a new tip be worth while?

Cheers

larger tips will increase airflow, but wont make an under reading maf read "correctly"... so... possible new maf is on the cards.
it wont have any influence on the slow spool and it not achieving requested boost however - tired turbo and or leaks as I said previously

 

[jitvv]

Bill,

Is there a way i can test the turbo? I had a smoke test done no leaks.... would a weak actuator cause this sort of issue?

Thanks for your help advise so far

 

[jitvv]

Just want to add if i have to replace the turbo, that's fine but want to be sure its knackered.

Cheers

 

[badger5]

Bill,

Is there a way i can test the turbo? I had a smoke test done no leaks.... would a weak actuator cause this sort of issue?

Thanks for your help advise so far

quite possibly a weak actuator could be part of this... they seem borderline when healthy in terms of keeping the wg closed under high boost/load - there's a lot of back pressure in the exhaust manifold/turbo when pushing them. think in terms of between 2:1 and 2.5:1 pressure ratio of inlet plenum pressure to exhaust manifold pressure! (>double the pressure in the exhaust mani as in the plenum!) - wg has to keep closed against this pressure.... 5psi spring as std.. surface area of wg for its 24mm exposed diameter, do the maths..

you could run n75 off to see what the actual pressure is.. it should not be less than 5psi, and often seems to rise with creep on healthy units I have seen, and on weak tired ones, the pressure falls away less than 5psi.

some added preload might recover some, but you dont have much adjustment in terms of rod length vs travel and its effective psi gain.. 2-3psi tops is all I think I have seen from winding up the actuator in these circumstances.

 

[jitvv]

quite possibly a weak actuator could be part of this... they seem borderline when healthy in terms of keeping the wg closed under high boost/load - there's a lot of back pressure in the exhaust manifold/turbo when pushing them. think in terms of between 2:1 and 2.5:1 pressure ratio of inlet plenum pressure to exhaust manifold pressure! (>double the pressure in the exhaust mani as in the plenum!) - wg has to keep closed against this pressure.... 5psi spring as std.. surface area of wg for its 24mm exposed diameter, do the maths..

you could run n75 off to see what the actual pressure is.. it should not be less than 5psi, and often seems to rise with creep on healthy units I have seen, and on weak tired ones, the pressure falls away less than 5psi.

some added preload might recover some, but you dont have much adjustment in terms of rod length vs travel and its effective psi gain.. 2-3psi tops is all I think I have seen from winding up the actuator in these circumstances.

Thanks for the quick reply.

So if i unplug the N75 and then log it? and see what boost i am getting right? does this test the turbo or the actuator sorry if i am sounding thick!!

Cheers

 

[badger5]

both kind of..
log it and post up what you see

 

[jitvv]

So just want to double check unplug N75 and do 3rd gear logs ?

Cheers

 

[badger5]

Yes

 

[jitvv]

Yes

Just been out.

Cheers

Group C:	'115
	RPM	Load	Absolute Pres.	Absolute Pres.
TIME
STAMP	/min	%	mbar	mbar
0.01	2240	91	2400	1210
1	2560	99.2	2470	1290
1.91	2840	100.8	2470	1300
2.82	3160	104.5	2470	1310
3.72	3480	100.8	2500	1320
4.62	3840	101.5	2510	1320
5.53	4200	100.8	2500	1330
6.43	4560	102.3	2480	1330
7.34	4960	103	2460	1320
8.25	5400	103.8	2480	1340
9.15	5840	106	2520	1350
10.06	6240	104.5	2510	1370
10.96	6600	105.3	2420	1350

 

[superkarl]

thats about 4 psi, unless you logged on top of ben nevis.
maybe, wind a few turns on it to get it to 5. i dont think its likely to give you your lost airflow though. i dont know, perhaps thats the norm for cars thi old to have lost a psi or 2, wg and spring is v old.

 

[S3Zek]

How do you work the psi off that... I don't know anything on loging the car lol

 

[badger5]

peak logged boost 370mb from your log (remove the leading digit) * 14.5 = psi = 5.365psi
310mb @ 3krpm = 4.495psi

so its about 5psi.. not massivley under, but some healhy k04's will creep from 5psi to 8-12psi with revs, yours does'nt

your afr's are a little on the lean side for me.. which is map, so you cant easily influence these yourself.

you could try adding a couple of turns on the actuator to add a little more preload and see how that goes for you.

(wind outer nut t'wards actuator to add preload)

 

[jitvv]

peak logged boost 370mb from your log (remove the leading digit) * 14.5 = psi = 5.365psi
310mb @ 3krpm = 4.495psi

so its about 5psi.. not massivley under, but some healhy k04's will creep from 5psi to 8-12psi with revs, yours does'nt

your afr's are a little on the lean side for me.. which is map, so you cant easily influence these yourself.

you could try adding a couple of turns on the actuator to add a little more preload and see how that goes for you.

(wind outer nut t'wards actuator to add preload)

Thanks for this, does this suggest a weak actuator? and a okish Turbo?

I'm guessing its best to get to the actuator from under the car?

Cheers

 

[badger5]

you can reach over the top with strut brace removed - cold engine!
be carefull if the buts are tight.. you can snap the rod end off easily if its uber seized on from heat/rust
WD40 is your friend