Fake Quattro's to real Quattro?

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Could be up for that Aaron, it's a 600 mile trip for me though haha!

I am not comparing stock VS modified? I am comparing stock turbo's in any state of tune. Fact is that it won't happen, unless you have 280bhp which very few K04's do as you know.

If you want to bring Combe into it then you can, but nothing passed me there and Prawn lapped the entire field apart from me within three laps with only 200bhp at ADI.

It's all a good laugh in these threads until somebody loses an eye :p
 
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badger5 said:
you seem to be under the illusion I give a monkeys what you think or rant about.. lmao
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And herein lies the problem Bill, too many people make their personal opinions a mission because they feel determined to prove a point that most people couldn't give a shiny shyte about.

I'm enjoying scratching my **** right now because it's making a positive benefit to my life, and then I might make a brew and book a holiday.

What were we talking about again :lmfao:
 
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16Klappe said:
I am not comparing stock VS modified? I am comparing stock turbo's in any state of tune. Fact is that it won't happen, unless you have 280bhp which very few K04's do as you know.
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Wouldnt it be fair to say first off that your car ISNT on a standard turbo? Its an AGU which has been fitted with a K03S. So its modified. AUM's are quite a bit different to yours given their small port heads and whatnot, so arent going to perform the same, and if your car still had its orginal turbo, you'd be lucky to see over 200hp.

Furthermore, as bill often states, the most power you can get from a K03S is around 235hp (on his rollers). The S3 is around 15% heavier than an A3, so would need around 270hp to match it, which ofcourse has been seen quite a few times (again on his rollers)

Even if you really stretch the boat out and say 240hp from the K03S, you need 276hp from an S3 to match it, which again is entirely possible on the stock turbo, and has been seen a few times.

If anything, doing the actual numbers suggests to me that they are infact fairly closely matched.
 
Where's the holiday going to be?

I'm only on a mission to save myself from boredom, the woman has got herself a book called Alex and Me about an African Grey parrot who was super clever so I haven't seen her for two days because she's been in bed glued to it! This thread is just a distraction, I couldn't honestly care less what people think of Haldex.

Currently I am trying to perfect my Saab 99 Stig Blonqvist replica on Forza and posting between races, not tooooo bad I don't think. There is one on the market place but the guy left out the number plate and missed out the Dunlop stickers on the boot and the 1 on the roof. Iiiidiot.

Here's my Forza car -

saab_rally_99T1.jpg


And here's the original -

418512_10150787606680130_709735129_12394110_971210072_n.jpg


Out of interest Bill, what sort of power is your class leading Ibiza race car which happens to be FWD? :p
 
I will have to remember to remove my Haldex fuse if I see you around Plymouth 16Klappe lol..

I've never heard so many playground comments on a forum about all of it!

Don't like it? Buy another car? :|
 
aragorn said:
Wouldnt it be fair to say first off that your car ISNT on a standard turbo? Its an AGU which has been fitted with a K03S. So its modified. AUM's are quite a bit different to yours given their small port heads and whatnot, so arent going to perform the same, and if your car still had its orginal turbo, you'd be lucky to see over 200hp.

Furthermore, as bill often states, the most power you can get from a K03S is around 235hp (on his rollers). The S3 is around 15% heavier than an A3, so would need around 270hp to match it, which ofcourse has been seen quite a few times (again on his rollers)

Even if you really stretch the boat out and say 240hp from the K03S, you need 276hp from an S3 to match it, which again is entirely possible on the stock turbo, and has been seen a few times.

If anything, doing the actual numbers suggests to me that they are infact fairly closely matched.
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Your quoting of Bill there is wrong unfortunately, 250BHP has been had on reputable rollers out of a K03s. No ifs, buts, maybe's or questions on reliability. I'm not saying it is a good thing but 250BHP IS an achievable figure for a K03s if you want to talk maximums. Unless you are saying that Niki at R Tech's rollers are over reading, which I don't think anybody would dream of saying.

A Stage 1 AUM (Prawns in fact) made 224BHP on Bills rollers with nothing but a downpipe, air filter and 007p and stage 1 R Tech map. 245BHP IMO is the figure for a good stage two car (such as my own) and 225bhp is a good figure for a stage one car. Of cause both with K03's fitted and having a modern map, things have moved on at an amazing rate over the last 12/18 months in terms of tuning. People don't want to spend mega money for power, and the maps have been developed much further for stock turbo cars where they hadn't been previously explored.

Look at this graph -

IMG_0078.jpg


More power, and as smooth as anything that's ever come out of Custard Code/Revo/AMD for an AUM or AGU. Yes that graph was for an AGU too, but despite the larger port head I am lead to believe the additional sensors and more modern software make AUM's much easier an safer to tune.

You could argue that my car doesn't have it's stock turbo fitted, and I'd agree with that. But then again I could give the same argument for my girlfriends car which is an AUM and gives airflow logs which suggest 220-225BHP. Not bad for a stage one car.

My argument will always be focused around the weight, and the short gearing. On paper, the two balance out, in the real world the effectiveness of the Haldex and the short gearing put the A3 ahead in figures.
 
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haha! This thread is jokes, I cant even be bothered to read all the comments and i'm actually slightly pleased I'll be out the country for this day Aaron has organised, i'll let you guys sort it out between ya! I'm sure you'll all be quick to let me know how you get on!?


16Klappe said:
nottrying to rock the boat
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Yea, sorry dude, I too do not mean to rock the boat! I was fairly drunk when I wrote that and looked hilarious in my beery eyes but maybe it was a bit below the belt? We'll call it banter! I trust you can take it in good steed? . . Being completely honest tho, I miss my FWD stage 2 soooo much and would swap my S3 back for it in a heart beat. The way the thing went from 30-95(ish) in 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] was absolutely unbelievable!


Anyway, we're deviating... where's our RWD s3 already!?
 
Im not bored this is an interesting read.
 
16Klappe said:
Where's the holiday going to be?
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Ingolstadt of course, we NEEEEED answers!

Against the F1 thread (Reptor), I almost enjoy these threads!!


16Klappe said:
Here's my Forza car -

saab_rally_99T1.jpg


And here's the original -

418512_10150787606680130_709735129_12394110_971210072_n.jpg
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Now that is attention to detail, I'm liking that; better than my half ***** efforts!
 
HAHAHA this is not what I intended this thread to be, I only went to my local cafe for a couple hours, your all going nuts,

I asked if a rear wheel drive or full quattro system A3/S3 would be a realistic project for me, I never said the fwd is better or worse than the Quattro or other way round.

I think Klappe about the gearing issue that you have is that post facelift uses a 6 speed gear box thus the gears are shorter so you will only make 56 out of 2nd... whereas pre facelift it had a 5 speed gearbox making each gear longer, but im sure you knew that.

And if your all so concerned about power/weight ratio why don't you have lupo's or mini's?

We all chose the A3/S3 for its looks/comfort/reliability... and potential. and this wonderfull 1.8 engine which has so many different tuning options.
 
Grazam said:
And if your all so concerned about power/weight ratio why don't you have lupo's?
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We used to; two of them! (me GTi, wife 16V) We're both ex. Mk1 Golf GTi owners and love the little Lupo. Now Bill has a proper Lupo, not like the half ***** NA versions we ran! Still a bundle of fun, great car! And they're not Haldex either...
 
VAG-Slag said:
ha ha! also just seen how this thread started... no chance mate, but there is a possibility this thread may be over on April 1st...... or it may only just begin!
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Come on lads let's all have it on April the 1st
think of the pics,vids and awesome documented thread we could make of it
there will be so many variations of s3/a3 it would be interesting to see how each one does stat wise
 
I does sound like fun Klappe if you do go let me know we can convoy up there I live in DT10 area so not too bad
 
It's not just the Helldex that makes the difference S3 to A3, It's the proper independent suspension fitted to the quatro cars that adds to the available grip.

I have to say i don't recall being lapped at combe by Nick in myboat with proper quattro?
 
Stop fishing for an argument :p

there are a lot of things on the S3 which are better standard, (Brakes, Suspension, Turbo, looks[IMO],.... I don't know much only had my 1.8tqs since october only just started looking at upgrading.
 
Not fishing, adding my own FACTS to the discussions, LOL

Anything is possible given enough money/time. There Has to be a way to lock a Haldex clutch up solid to make it perm 4wd for testing purposes
 
What warren said about raining mostly in Britain is absolutely true! I had that debate with some1 at work too. The s3 in the wet is great for me! I have had a play with m3 in the wet but because he was so scared to really give it the beans I stuck right up his lights but if it was dry then he'd spank me lol. I'm not saying my car is magically fast, it's an 11 year old s3 with a stage1 map, but that haldex does help me! It gives you alot more confidence in wet conditions and even in dry. It handles well and in all is a gorgeous car (and is prefacelift so Tis the best:drool:) hehe
 
Yea the Haldex is good for britsh weather :)

I have been looking and im wondering if anyone knows if I can fit the B5 rear diff to the current TQS to replace the haldex completly just for ****s and giggles and a dedicated 4wd A3.

If it can't then how much of the b5's running gear would I need or would it be a full engine swap with gearbox and all the rest to go with?
 
Sorry I made a mistake, Mark didn't get lapped by Prawn at Combe. He couldn't fit past his land yacht without ending up on the grass :beerchug:

I know where Sterminster Newton is, strange story for you here...My dad and I drove there to have his Austin Gypsi valued and aged by the head honcho of the Gypsi owners club. I used to live in Basingstoke (ish) so it was quite a drive. We broke down 7 times that day, and my dad hasn't done a touch of maintenance since and it's still going strong haha!

Here's an enlightening picture of Nick's Mini arriving in style being towed along behind it -

206879_10150267370850130_709735129_9269215_1856149_n.jpg


Doubt I'll be going to Shakey on the 1st, I've got a reputation to lose and can't afford to put my money where my mouth is. Haha :p

Also, ALL S3's are 6 speed. Only the linkage changed between the years. So my argument is valid for the pre and facelift S3's. Although pre facelift is obviously better.

Ttfn.
 
Grazam said:
Lol that is quite a story :p and yea that mini does look awesome. and so does the defender
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DEFENDER!!!! It's an Austin Gypsi and not a Land Rover, which was the whole point of the story...lol
 
This argument is pointless ..... the very first Audi Coupe Quattros just had normal diffs that could be locked manually via mechancical switches on the dash .... they didn't have Torsens or Haldex or anything.... Think more of a Landrover .... so all the other cars that came later be they A3 , A4 , A8 whatever could be argued not to be Quattro.... Torsen , Haldex etc is just progression of the brand and all have their pro's and cons
 
16Klappe said:
You're right Jo, as standard the A3 is far from a quick car. But nor is the S3. I am talking purely from a modified point of view, both an A3 and an S3 with the same stage one or two modifications, the A3 will always be a quicker car. So what is the point in Haldex? I am NOT just trying to say that my car is quicker than yours, but I can't see the valid benefits of having Haldex...So what are they? I am not just talking about on a track, I am a terrible track driver. But if you think that any S3 would be quicker in the real world you're wrong. Or if it is you need to reassess your driving abilities. I didn't even have a RARB fitted st ADI Jo, my car runs with a full leather interior without a single piece of trim removed and is NOT some all singing all dancing well setup beast. It's had a lot of money spent on it, but IMO it is just a good stage two car. Would you guys say that an LCR is an inferior car for not having Haldex?
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Fkn Jardo! :laugh:

I have never said Haldex is better than fwd, you're just creating an argument from your imagination, plus I've never even said an S3 is a great base for a track car. What I have mentioned is, an S3 has 4WD simply because it's an 'S' car, so what if Audi choosed to make their 8P racecar a FWD machine? It's hardly a comfortable road car is it? It's a pure racing machine built with compromises!


My argument is valid and factual, and until somebody can counter it with facts and figures it will always be there. As I said I am not trying to rock the boat, but every time a debate about it gets going and opinions come out there is somebody who takes it too far and it ends in tears and a thread lock. Can we try and talk about it this time without everybody getting silly? After all, this is what forums are all about! :p
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Your argument is a love hate war within yourself, it comes out about when you see A3 and S3 in the same sentence, that's pretty clear for everyone to see.
 
666markyboy said:
This argument is pointless ..... the very first Audi Coupe Quattros just had normal diffs that could be locked manually via mechancical switches on the dash .... they didn't have Torsens or Haldex or anything.... Think more of a Landrover .... so all the other cars that came later be they A3 , A4 , A8 whatever could be argued not to be Quattro.... Torsen , Haldex etc is just progression of the brand and all have their pro's and cons
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I thank you for this reply. In my personal opinion, 'quattro' just means 4WD in Audi terms, how it's delivered doesn't really matter!

Not a 'real' quattro? What IS a REAL quattro? Some of you are still living in the past!!
 
And just to answer the OPs origin question below...

Grazam said:
My second idea would be to see if it is possible to make the A3 into a permanent rear wheel drive (possibly use the haldex to bring the front wheels to make it 4wd when the rears spin, but have a cut out switch so I can control if the haldex is on or not. so i can drift/have fun).

How much work is envolved.... how much its going to cost me or your ideas on the matter such as seeing if bmw drivetrain fits..

Any thoughts

Graham
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You will definitely need to built the car with different running gear to make your A3 RWD, it's not possible with the current setup, as your front transmission is linked directly to the engine as it is in a FWD model, but you have a transfer box at the back of the gearbox which transmits drive to the rear via a prop shaft, and the Haldex clutch in between the prop and rear axle controls the amount of drive that goes towards the rear wheels.
 
jojo said:
Fkn Jardo! :laugh:

Your argument is a love hate war within yourself, it comes out about when you see A3 and S3 in the same sentence, that's pretty clear for everyone to see.
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This.

:thumbsup:

So true, lol.
 
So it seems theres 2 debates going on here. So ill add a 3rd lol What else is out there that has a short wheel base and rear wheel drive? 3.2 v6 clio is the only thing that springs to mind?

Imo the s3 is the bench mark, i have an A3 because i couldnt afford an S3 at the time i was buying, and as stated allready the a3 and s3 are totally diffrent despite the similarities, monkeys are only a few genes off being humans if you see what i mean.

Just wanted to contribute my 2p, and i think rwd in an a3 tqs wouldnt be anything other than technical showman ship, if it aint broke, dont fix it :)
 
shariain:1500140 said:
Vorsprung Durch Technik. This says it all from the old Quattro to the new Quattro.
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A German guy approaches a prostitute.
"I vish to buy zex vit you"
"OK" says the girl, "I'll charge €50 an hour".
"Ist goot, but I must varn you, I am a little kinky".
"No problem", she replies cautiously, "I can do a little kinky". So off they go to the girls flat, where the German produces four large bedsprings and a duck caller. "I vant you to tie ze springs to each of your limbs". The girl finds this most odd, but complies, fastening the springs to her hands and knees.
"Now you vil get on your hans und knees".
She duly does this, balancing on the springs.
"You vill please blow Zis vistle as I make love to you."
She finds this odd, but figures its harmless, and the guy is paying. The sex is fantastic. She is bounced all over the room by the energetic German, all the time honking on the duckcaller. The climax is the most sensational that she has ever experienced, and it is several minutes before she has recovered the breath to say...

"That was totally amazing, what do you call that?"








Vait for it







"Ah", says the German, "Four-sprung duck technique!"

Also lol, the monkey analogy is heroic. I am in love with you for that!!!
 
Taken from wikipedia.

quattro (meaning four in Italian) is the name used by Audi AG to indicate that all-wheel drive (AWD) technologies or systems are used on specific models of the Audi automobiles.[1]

The word "quattro" is a registered trademark of Audi AG, a subsidiary of the German automotive concern, Volkswagen Group.[1]

Quattro was first introduced in 1980 on the permanent four wheel drive Audi Quattro (often referred to as the Ur-Quattro - "Ur-" being German for "ancient" or "great" as in "great-grandfather"). The term quattro has since been applied to all subsequent Audi AWD models. Due to the nomenclature rights derived from the trademark, the word quattro is now always spelled with a lower case "q", in honour of its former namesake.
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I should start banning those of you who spell 'quattro' with a capital 'Q' soon, this is Audi-Sport afterall! :laugh:
 
16Klappe said:
Also lol, the monkey analogy is heroic. I am in love with you for that!!!
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Ha im not looking for love lol its probly been used before but im not to know lol but may i add that monkeys are stronger and faster than humans ;)
 
camscockle20vT said:
Ha im not looking for love lol its probly been used before but im not to know lol but may i add that monkeys are stronger and faster than humans ;)
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There just not as aesthetically pleasing ;) as could be said with ..
 
You clearly didn't read the bottom sentence of the Haldex section though did you Jo?

nojojojo.jpg
 
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