AGU Tuning...heeellllppp!!

[turbo02]

I just stripped a 8L chassis in under 8 hours to the last bolt and nut, and Im doing an AGU to Golf Mk3 engine conversion, with all the Audi interior bits and so on whatever else is needed.
I'm now stuck in finding somebody who can do a good job with porting & polishing the head, lightening the crank and balancing an also cleaning down the block. I'm based in London and i'm open to all ideas.

 

[16Klappe]

What power are you going for? There is very little, if any need to port or polish an AGU head.

Throw away the dual mass flywheel, fit a VR6 clutch and G60 flywheel. Job done.

 

[turbo02]

im only going for max 250BHP, and the AGU already has a solid flywheel conversion which has been used for about 200 miles.
but yeah, i will be getting the vr6 clutch with the g6 flywheel.
i awready have all the bits for the conversion except for the conversion downpipe, that i will get from Qpeng.
im looking for somebody who can do a nice porting and polishing job on the head,and also the block plus the crank.
I've looked around and the internals can take up to 380ps.

 

[aragorn]

The head and crank are fine as they are, and tbh for 250hp i'd leave the entire engine alone and just bolt it in.

Why do you want to touch them?

If it aint broke....

If your passing 250 and approaching 300+ it might then be an idea to install a set of rods, but i still wouldnt be touching the crankshaft or cylinder head. They're fine as they are.

 

[turbo02]

hmmm, good question. i never really thought of it like that.
well, I guess leaving the crank as it is is best if im only after 250.
the head i wanna port it and polish it. i guess im only after faster turbo spool time.
im leaving everything stock,but replacing all the bolts and bearings in the engine with original parts.
so, i guess only polishing the head is good enough, cause its awready ported from factory.

 

[16Klappe]

The Qpeng ECU if MAFless and with a 4 bar fuel regulator will give you 250bhp on one of their standard email maps. So if you are using that then don't bother touching anything.

I wouldn't touch anything internally anyway, AGU internals (bar rods) and heads are more than good enough for 350bhp+ as said.

It will just be wasted money.

 

[turbo02]

kool. but im going to be using the 8L loom and ECU on the mk3 chassis. i wont be running standalone. i have a mate who can do it for me....but then I think maybe going standalone would be best.
Im not really bothered about the money that i have spent/going to spend....im more concerned about the time its gonna take.
im quite confused on wat to do, cause i have everything for the conversion except stuck on the choice of going standalone or adapt the audi bits to the golf.

 

[16Klappe]

Go for Qpeng, it knocks the socks off stock management.

 

[<tuffty/>]

im only going for max 250BHP, and the AGU already has a solid flywheel conversion which has been used for about 200 miles.
but yeah, i will be getting the vr6 clutch with the g6 flywheel.
i awready have all the bits for the conversion except for the conversion downpipe, that i will get from Qpeng.
im looking for somebody who can do a nice porting and polishing job on the head,and also the block plus the crank.
I've looked around and the internals can take up to 380ps.

As said by others... the AGU is a pretty solid start point but rods and valves are the weakest points on 1.8t's... AGU is large port and there is no need to port this until you are looking to go bigger than say a GT3076r turbo...

Depending on the turbo you choose then as Aragorn has suggested you should consider changing the rods... 250hp is K04 or K03 hybrid territory... won't get 250hp from a K03s... K04 in stage 1 tune will get you there but if you plan to go K03 hybrid then rods are advisable due to the way the torque is delivered... spikey as you like...

If the engine is apart then its probably worth balancing tbh... but other than changing the rods the bottom ends on these are good for 400hp... both Welly and I run in and around that sort of power on stock pistons and unported large port heads...

A decent port job will set you back between £500 and £1000 depending and at the power levels you are looking for thats money better spent else where... forced induction doesn't need it like NA does...

<tuffty/>

 

[turbo02]

thanks. i guess its worth spending the money instead of having the headaches with all the wiring.
so, all keep everything stock except from the K03s turbo, highflow exhaust manifold, exhaust and maybe high pressure fuel rail?

 

[<tuffty/>]

DTA works well with this... worked on a Mk3 Golf conversion recently fitting an AUM engine...

DTA S40 ECU, hydraulic clutch conversion etc... loom was a piece of cake to make...

Also worked on a 450+hp Mk2 Golf 20v on S60 DTA...

<tuffty/>

 

[aragorn]

I've never understood the point of spending a grand on DTA or the like when the car comes with the ECU and loom for free.

Theres probalby not more than 10 wires to get the ECU running, and even ME7.5 doesnt have much more, just a few for the throttle and clutch/brake switches.

The engine loom is as a whole pretty self contained.

 

[turbo02]

so, the question now is how could i get those pretty 250 brake?
im a bit confused with this now: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
so, which unit should i get and is tehrre any other auxiliaries that i should get/replace?

 

[turbo02]

lool..sorry guys...here's the item info:

AUDI A3 TT VW GOLF 1.8T UPGRADE TURBOCHARGER K03-053
	APPLICATION
	VW GOLF 1.8T 2002-04 AUQ VW Bora Sport 1.8T - 180HP 2002- AUQ AUDI A3 1.8T 2000-03 AUQ/ARZ AUDI TT 1.8T 2000- 1.8T APP/ARY
	DESCRIPTION
	Turbo Part Number:53039700053 OEM number:06A145704T/06A145713D/704T can be up to 240-260HP High Ni cast HSG No Reserve Price!!!

 

[aragorn]

For starters thats a chinese rubbish turbo and i wouldnt put it anywhere near the car!

If you want 250, then a K03S isnt big enough.

They'll do 230-240 really screwing them hard. Ideally you want a hybird K03 with K04 or larger internals. That will comfortably manage your 250hp goal.

 

[turbo02]

hmm, ok. so, you know any places where i can get a good quality hybrid turbo?
and also, would that fit onto the qpeng downpipe conversion easily?

 

[<tuffty/>]

hmm, ok. so, you know any places where i can get a good quality hybrid turbo?
and also, would that fit onto the qpeng downpipe conversion easily?

Have used CR Turbos in the past for K03 hybrids... assuming the qpeng downpipe fits a K03 then it will fit the hybrid... Bill at Badger 5 made the one for the Golf Mk3 I worked on...

You will need rods though really... not many peeps here have done a K03 hybrid conversion but there are loads of Ibizas on Seat Cupra Net that have done...

Should be noted that the Mk3 Golf front end (engine bay etc) is essentially the same as the Mk3 Ibiza...

<tuffty/>

 

[aragorn]

The hybrids are usually designed to bolt up streight onto the original manifold and downpipe, so it should fit the conversion pipe just fine.

Plenty of companies around that will sort you out with a turbo, CRTurbos and Turbo Dynamics are the names i hear most often on here, there will be many others though. You'll want to be sure the hybrid you get has at least K04 sized internals to meet your goals.

 

[aragorn]

Tuffty: He could always just get the tuner to keep the boost sensible and retain the stock rods?

 

[<tuffty/>]

Tuffty: He could always just get the tuner to keep the boost sensible and retain the stock rods?

Maybe but why do that... if the OP plans to do some work on the engine anyway and is saving himself some cash from not having a ported head he might as well change the rods for peace of mind... I am surprised you asked but yes, a sensible map could well help the engine survive but K03 hybrids spool quicker than K04's and can be savage... rods are a sensible precaution imo..

ME7.x are DBW ECU's... AGU is cable as std... on a Mk3 Golf you should be able to use Ibiza parts to do DBW if you wanted to...

<tuffty/>

 

[aragorn]

True, if hes taking it apart anyway it would be silly to not fit rods.

However if it were mine i'd be lumping it in exactly as it is without touching the internals and mapping it safely for 250hp!

 

[turbo02]

ok, so if going for a K03s hybrid, and wanting that 250ps goal, it would be best to change the rods.
regarding the bearings on the crank; shall i install original ones or aftermarket as the ones there are a bit gone.
also, wat bout piston rings?

 

[16Klappe]

People keep saying this, but it is wrong. K03s's DO flow enough for 250bhp. It might be a bit spikey but it can happen.

I could show you any number of friends of mine who have K03s powered cars on Qpeng kits which make 250 on reputable rollers. Knock control mapped out, no MAF, aggressive maps and a decent manifold and full stage 2 mods, injectors and actuators. I have seen it many times. It HAS and IS done.

 

[turbo02]

so, ultimately what would be needed for the 250BHP achieval?...in a sensible way.

 

[<tuffty/>]

ok, so if going for a K03s hybrid, and wanting that 250ps goal, it would be best to change the rods.
regarding the bearings on the crank; shall i install original ones or aftermarket as the ones there are a bit gone.
also, wat bout piston rings?

I have OEM VAG shells in mine which are ok but would have used Caleco's if they were on the shelf... std VAG ones should be fine... I would inspect the bores and check the rings but most engines I have done work on (circa 100k mileage) have been mostly ok.. I had to change the rings on mine as mine were ruined from when I was running really rich fuelling for a while... ring packs from VAG are 30-40 quid per piston....

People keep saying this, but it is wrong. K03s's DO flow enough for 250bhp. It might be a bit spikey but it can happen.

I could show you any number of friends of mine who have K03s powered cars on Qpeng kits which make 250 on reputable rollers. Knock control mapped out, no MAF, aggressive maps and a decent manifold and full stage 2 mods, injectors and actuators. I have seen it many times. It HAS and IS done.

...and you keep telling us but as yet I haven't seen the graphs/evidence and tbh I would be surprised if dyno lottery didn't play a part in this... running a K03s to 250hp 'may' well be possible but I can't imagine its going to last long at that level... a K03 hybrid will do this power level all day long

<tuffty/>

 

[turbo02]

wat bout ACL bearings? they good?

 

[<tuffty/>]

so, ultimately what would be needed for the 250BHP achieval?...in a sensible way.

Either a K04 from an S3/TT/LCR and all the related gubbins or a K03 hybrid as you can use all the bits you currently have plus any conversion kit made to put a 20v with a K03 into a Mk3 Golf...

Choice of ECU is stick to the dumb *** AGU one, go standalone (DTA et all) or if you feel confident enough go ME7 and drive by wire... budget being part of the equation here... all ECU's will cost more or less the same to map though...

Have a look at Prawns build thread for his track car... there is a lot of relevant stuff in there

<tuffty/>

 

[16Klappe]

...and you keep telling us but as yet I haven't seen the graphs/evidence and tbh I would be surprised if dyno lottery didn't play a part in this... running a K03s to 250hp 'may' well be possible but I can't imagine its going to last long at that level... a K03 hybrid will do this power level all day long

<tuffty/>

I am by no means saying that the hybrid isn't the better option, just pointing out that it isn't the only option.

Niki's rollers are bang on, and he has had several K03 cars up and around the 250bhp mark.

I will get there, I will get the 250bhp I say is possible and when I do I will come and show you so you can log it. I am just finding it very difficult at the moment, trade is slow and my plans have had to take a back seat

 

[turbo02]

I guess, i'll be going for the Hybrid K03 and just use Qpeng standalone managament.
change the conrods, bearings, balance the crank as i stripped everything down..lol.
so for now im just looking around for the conrods and bearings.

 

[<tuffty/>]

I guess, i'll be going for the Hybrid K03 and just use Qpeng standalone managament.
change the conrods, bearings, balance the crank as i stripped everything down..lol.
so for now im just looking around for the conrods and bearings.

Bill at Badger 5 should have these in stock... from another thread...

S3 have 144x20 rods..
in stock with me in either rifle drilled or non-rifle drilled.
£289 non, £389 with
+vat & delivery

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

im only going for max 250BHP,
I've looked around and the internals can take up to 380ps.

Brave, thinking stock rods will be good for 380ps
if you're taking it apart why not invest in some forged rods... 250bhp should'nt trouble stockers, but if you wanted more at a later date, build it once to the spec you ultimately desire.

 

[badger5]

People keep saying this, but it is wrong. K03s's DO flow enough for 250bhp. It might be a bit spikey but it can happen.

I could show you any number of friends of mine who have K03s powered cars on Qpeng kits which make 250 on reputable rollers. Knock control mapped out, no MAF, aggressive maps and a decent manifold and full stage 2 mods, injectors and actuators. I have seen it many times. It HAS and IS done.

Until I see it on my rollers, I call bluff on the 250bhp level from a K03s..
Prove me wrong

MrsB Lupo has a dynoplot from a set of rollers which reported 252bhp/280lbft from its K03s when it ran one.....

On my dyno... nothing of the sort.

Lottery applied... believe it.

 

[16Klappe]

People keep saying this, but it is wrong. K03s's DO flow enough for 250bhp. It might be a bit spikey but it can happen.

I could show you any number of friends of mine who have K03s powered cars on Qpeng kits which make 250 on reputable rollers. Knock control mapped out, no MAF, aggressive maps and a decent manifold and full stage 2 mods, injectors and actuators. I have seen it many times. It HAS and IS done.

Until I see it on my rollers, I call bluff on the 250bhp level from a K03s..
Prove me wrong

MrsB Lupo has a dynoplot from a set of rollers which reported 252bhp/280lbft from its K03s when it ran one.....

On my dyno... nothing of the sort.

Lottery applied... believe it.

We shall see

Prawn and I were talking about this last night, part of me is doing it this way because I am intrigued and want to see what actually can be done for myself, and the other part is doing it this way because I am too tight to buy a hybrid.

I ordered an actuator this morning, I have a VR6 MAF so not too far off. Challenge accepted