Lees Build Thread
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AARON77
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Cheers Aaron. I will be at ace on tuesday, not sure if ill be in my car though.. are you going?
chris-edin.. when i first started the car i was aiming for 400. However i don't think that will be a realistic figure to aim for. The more it gets over 370 the happier i will be. If it doesn't make 370 then i will be slightly dissapointed but it will make what it can at the end of the day.
Update..
Got the car back on monday, came out around 380bhp at 19-20 psi which was good. I dont have a dyno graph as bills dyno decided to go tits up. Its driving very nice, a proper animal. I am loving it at the moment, all the pops/bangs/flames and the noise is very nice indeed. I will update properly when i get to a proper computer as at the moment im using a phone, just thought id let everyone know how it was going.
Got the car back on monday, came out around 380bhp at 19-20 psi which was good. I dont have a dyno graph as bills dyno decided to go tits up. Its driving very nice, a proper animal. I am loving it at the moment, all the pops/bangs/flames and the noise is very nice indeed. I will update properly when i get to a proper computer as at the moment im using a phone, just thought id let everyone know how it was going.
AARON77
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Good figures Lee but why only 20psi? Surely your setup is good for up to near on 30psi?
Is there any factors which stopped Bill from pushing it and how did the wmi fare?
More importantly, how does it drive??
Is there any factors which stopped Bill from pushing it and how did the wmi fare?
More importantly, how does it drive??
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I imagine they stopped because of egts. Must get pretty hot as bill mentioned further up. Is this basically same turbo as tufftys? Small frame gt30?
The reason the boost is low is partly because the egts were creaping towards the max and a dodgy manifold > turbo gasket, Which ironically decided to cause me problems last night.. the turbo pretty much unbolted itself from the manifold. So now its time for the turbo to come off again. It really does look like a PITA to do so whether i will be doing it or not is the question im asking at the moment. Maybe after the gasket is sorted we can give it some more boost. I knew this would happen as it has to most people i know with big turbos, wasnt expecting it to happen quite so soon though.
It drives very nice, the boost is very progressive, there is about as much lag as you'd expect from a small framed gt30. Boost comes in around 3 > 3.5, by about 4.2 its pretty much at full boost, however when it goes past 6k it is truely crazy.
It drives very nice, the boost is very progressive, there is about as much lag as you'd expect from a small framed gt30. Boost comes in around 3 > 3.5, by about 4.2 its pretty much at full boost, however when it goes past 6k it is truely crazy.
AARON77
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AARON77
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Soooooo the question is Lee
Was that a new gasket or was you fannying with the old one
If it is a new one how come this has happened ?????
Also loving that intercooler where did you get that from ? Did you have it made like that?
I gotta have one mate how much££££££
Was that a new gasket or was you fannying with the old one
If it is a new one how come this has happened ?????
Also loving that intercooler where did you get that from ? Did you have it made like that?
I gotta have one mate how much££££££
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AARON77
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AARON77
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Ok I got it! bill fabricated it (good work)Read the thread dooode!!
<tuffty/>
Where was the intercooler bought from
Can you guys make me one exactly like that and how much will you charge me
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Its a Toyosports one... best off asking Bill about getting one modded although he may prefer to do it to the car as he tends not to make drawings of mods like that...
The brackets holding it on were bespoke too...
<tuffty/>
AARON77
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I don't want to fit till I've fitted my new engine so just want one fabricated to the same spec as lee's
Think I'll call bill see wot he can do
AARON77
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AARON77
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AARON77
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Dunno ?
Jogg the wmi on it's the cebeebies version of nos
That quote is bound to cause some agro I know
Idrees
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This is awesome build, well done. I love the FMIC setup, great fitment behind the bumper as the bumper hast been cut!
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You supplied the part Lee & a whole bunch of other used parts...
Better question is why did you supply such a shyte part to be fitted?
At what point am I supposed to guess where I have to stop replacing "every" supplied part, vs your budget.
Gasketless is an option.
Higher boosts drive up EGT's to a level where bolts (small M8's on a std BDM install) are insufficient imho to cope, same for gaskets.......... The turbo will of course produce more boost but with it very high egt's........... which in my experience makes for unreliability
M10's and redrilling the manifold for tapping M10, would be what I would do on a BDM setup.
small frame T25's do run hot relative to their T3 external gated cousins I deal with
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Although im not moaning about the situation, and with all due respect, i have to disagree with you bill. The only used parts that are on my car now are the inlet manifold and throttle body. Everything else is new. Th gasket is one of those things that you noticed to be ****, so it was an easy option for you to of changed it when you had the chance. A gasket is unlikely to of affected the budget.
Im not trying to argue, more just trying to put my point across.
On a plus note, i have got some new m8 allen key bolts which i have drilled through in order to wire lock them.
Im not trying to argue, more just trying to put my point across.
On a plus note, i have got some new m8 allen key bolts which i have drilled through in order to wire lock them.
AARON77
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Higher boosts drive up EGT's to a level where bolts (small M8's on a std BDM install) are insufficient imho to cope, same for gaskets.......... The turbo will of course produce more boost but with it very high egt's........... which in my experience makes for unreliability
The question is if you know it's gonna be unreliable why build it?
surely sending out a car that you know is gonna be unreliable is not good for business or client!!!
In my business i won't fit something that is pony there's no point as you only get agro after and you look like mong when it breaks
And let's face it theres nothing worse than doing the job twice
Unless of course..........
Obviously the gasket should have been changed
Looks like you both learnt something today
'every days a school day"
The question is if you know it's gonna be unreliable why build it?
surely sending out a car that you know is gonna be unreliable is not good for business or client!!!
In my business i won't fit something that is pony there's no point as you only get agro after and you look like mong when it breaks
And let's face it theres nothing worse than doing the job twice
Unless of course..........
Obviously the gasket should have been changed
Looks like you both learnt something today
'every days a school day"
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Lee..
Lets get some FACTs out into the open... seeing as you are moaning.
You brought a car here by recovery truck... a non runner..
You supplied the parts used from a friend including knackered/cracked gt2871, old hoses, induction, assorted comedy pipes a a jigsaw, cable ties holding on fluid connections, battery secured in the boot by wood screws thru to the boot floor, puncturing a cell on the battery, wiring which can only be described as a fire hazard in the battery relocation.......... and a whole bunch more. (like foam backed firewall heatshield! which catches fire..., removed and replaced with proper material... etc etc)
Reminder, you sent it here for making a downpipe and mapping it... That was its original request. (no mention from the start of ,"oh the clutch was slipping a bit before, will it be alright"....... wtf! Of course it would'nt be on a GT2871 or GT30 as it ended up.
Many many hours later, and a clutch/flywheel/new FMIC install later, it got to be running to then find the inlet manifold you had fitted leaked like a sive.. because you had reused gaskets! Take it apart all over again make good and try again.
Money was a factor for you all along... The job had already mushroomed from the start, new turbo req'd, clutch etc... and the many additional hours it took to rework the original install cobble, all were costing you more £. My point as I said earlier was at what point do I draw the line on redoing, respecing a cobbled together assortment of parts, when its not my £ being spent. I told you I pegged the mapping at a relatively tame boost level because of egt's which will in due course have a reliability effect. Your supplied gasket in this instance has been the first component to suffer this... despite my attempts at keeping it to perform to a power level you were asking for 370bhp (which I gave you from such low boost!)
It was not sent out knowing it would be unreliable... Boost and EGT's were kept as low as possible whilst achieving the power figure you craved. Your gasket has failed, which is unlucky.
I hope you get it sorted, gasketless, but I will say again.... M8's and small T25 based units IF pushed hard, driven hard sustained will likely suffer issues. There is a reason I do not use them!
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Aaron..
Unless you had seen the car, its multitude of issues, you are not best placed to make ANY informed comment.
Using your example/business, you would have simply sent it away! Maybe I should have done so also. It has been grief from day #1.
Customer supplied, cobbled together assortment of parts, dumped at a tuner and asked to make it work, risks this... and from the school day perspective, jobs like these are simply not worth the hassle. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear, and I will not being taking on customer supplied shyte again. End of. No mention of the work done to make it drive well, perform 370bhp, reworked the wiring to make the wmi actually work!, make and fit battery box to properly relocate battery in the boot SAFELY... But moaning because of a customer supplied turbo/manifold gasket fitted now starting to blow. ***... you cant win.
Shame this one's gone sour, I'd been watching this to see what sort of budget a GT30 could be done for and if it would be pain free sourcing/supplying used parts yourself.
Am i right in thinking it just needs the turbo/mani gasket replacing and you've got a got a good result? All in probably alot cheaper than what most will have paid for similar end results?
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Second hand turbos are always going to be hit and miss... the GT2871r in this case was beyond economical repair and the GT30 (which was essentially the same turbo I started off with) was a logical replacement under the circumstances... T25 manifold etc....
The power levels here while not full on T3 GT3071r levels is by comparison better than running a GT2871r flat out which it would have to get to this level realistically...
If you are planning GT30 then go T3 and external gate.. this is essentially what I will be doing...
Replacing the gasket or going gasketless (I have done this but it is a personal choice) would help overall reliability but not necessarily its ability to handle more boost as the EGT's are creeping up and these housings crack as I have found out...
Running this setup has given more power overall than the GT2871 would have done on less boost and ultimately better overall reliability...
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yes..
gasket of decent quality OR option of running gasketless.
If wanting to push the BDM based mani and garrett to more boost (read hotter egt's) then redrill the manifold for 10mm fixings not the M8's they come with... again, for more reliability. run them hot, drive em hard and fixings like these will suffer. The gasket is a pia to change on it, which is more than disappointing all round. I still would not want to push its boost harder than I saw its egt's on the m8 fixings tho.
Bill, i made it clear in the original post i had no intentions of arguing over this, however the above post is not only totally irrelevant, inaccurate but also quite disrespectful. The fact of the matter is.. the gasket which was used was ****e (ok, i supplied it..whatever) YOU are the proffesional tuner, YOU fitted the turbo so YOU had the opportunity not to use it, like YOU did with the other gaskets that i supplied.. so now i am in a situation where i have just paid you thousands of pounds to do the rest of this build, and 4 days/400 miles later my car is off the road again, where it has been for the past 7 months. It was not my intention to come across as if i was moaning in my original post, although really and truely i am fully within my rights to moan.
Yes, you are right to think all it needs is a new gasket, the point im trying to make is Bill could of changed it when he fitted the turbo, or not used one at all. Not the biggest deal on the world but now its been blown out of proportion.
I just want to point out that the GT2871R had a crack in the wastegate, nothing else was wrong with it.. i had personally seen the car it came off running fine before it was stripped, boosting correctly etc etc .. Otherwise i wouldnt of bought it.
The turbo had a lot of endfloat in it. It may have been from a running car, but wouldn't have lasted long for sure.
Ill stand by the fact that the turbo is fine, it was checked out by many people. doesnt matter its not even on the car.
No worries, i was just saying that the endfloat may have caused problems later on, especially when pushed hard is all. At least the GT30 isnt working it's nuts off to provide it's current figures
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Housing cracked & the bearings & movement are a lot less than fine (very noisy compared to a healthy BB cartridge)
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Sorry mate, but it simply wasn't.
I personally saw the turbo, and, as Mark said, the end float was pretty bad. Wouldn't have been long until it ate the seals and then the thing would have had to be rebuilt - a lot more of a PITA than the gasket IMO.
I wouldn't have fitted it, lets put it that way. It rattled like a maraca.
