Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Power to weight is so under rated! At the last open pitlane day in the mini, we were hunting down all sorts of big power stuff with our 120bhp/570kg giant killer!
 
you jammy t**t haha, where did you get those wheels from prawn? i want a set now, was looking at pro race 1.2's but like these.
 
Prawn said:
I've gone all Jap!

Rota Force:

force_bronze.jpg


17x8 ET35, 5x100, so absolutely perfect for the A3, and just 8Kg per rim, so even lighter than Team Dynamics in the same size :)

They're a bit different on an A3 too, which I always like
Click to expand...

You swine, I was eyeing up a set of those for the new year!
 
Impressive graphs for both, definitely, I like the way the lupo holds boost so flat, and the torque keeps rising all the way to 6k, it must feel fairly progressive to drive.

You appear to have a few boost control issues looking at that, is that the tapering boost you were talking about from the UNOS?

So desperately want to get this new turbo on now, the car is crying out for more power, it's so capable, yet the engine just doesn't live up to the rest of it any more
 
Judging by those graphs i'd nip in front of you both off the line and then just weave from side to side so you couldn't get past.
Stage One, quick spooling K04 FTW!
 
Prawn said:
Impressive graphs for both, definitely, I like the way the lupo holds boost so flat, and the torque keeps rising all the way to 6k, it must feel fairly progressive to drive.

You appear to have a few boost control issues looking at that, is that the tapering boost you were talking about from the UNOS?

So desperately want to get this new turbo on now, the car is crying out for more power, it's so capable, yet the engine just doesn't live up to the rest of it any more
Click to expand...

Yep... boost control is a complete beatch atm... still on the map for the original hardware so its a little all over the place but that should hopefully be sorted soon and then for good once I go external gate... which should also give me more power :D

UNOS does seem to tail boost off but Bill has a theory on that which will be tested at some point... without the UNOS in place mine hits 30+ psi and throttle cuts so its on and wound down to around 1.4bar for the time being... seems to be happy with that and I still have enough power to keep me away from most stuff... just not Bill's Lupo lol...

JS1500 said:
Judging by those graphs i'd nip in front of you both off the line and then just weave from side to side so you couldn't get past.
Stage One, quick spooling K04 FTW!
Click to expand...

From a rolling start maybe but from a launch I am pretty sure I would be way ahead of both of you.... last 0-60 time I did on the vbox was 4.2 secs...

<tuffty/>
 
JS1500 said:
Judging by those graphs i'd nip in front of you both off the line and then just weave from side to side so you couldn't get past.
Stage One, quick spooling K04 FTW!
Click to expand...

no you would'nt... lol
lupo was obstructed by a silver S3... hehe - road hog!
 
<tuffty/> said:
From a rolling start maybe but from a launch I am pretty sure I would be way ahead of both of you.... last 0-60 time I did on the vbox was 4.2 secs...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Well... we will have to break out the vbox for some "testing"
Lupo, when K03s, revo remap on first build when doing a mag shootout for PVW, was 5.5sec 0-60 on its R888 toyo's. Its running normal T1R's now given its a daily driver of sorts in theory.
Should make for some interesting performance figures... Hooking it up off the line tho will of course be the "problem" 2nd gear launch perhaps seeing its running one of my old Stage 3+ Spec clutches in it. Hmmmm.

Nicest part is its a plain looking lupo on the outside
 
Car is looking like a wheel / tyre dealers at the moment, the Rotas arrived this morning:

59d89722.jpg


And I picked up these last night too:

752a69e5.jpg


The Federals will go onto the Rotas on the track car, and I'll be taking my S4's off for winter, and running the black TT 6 spokes on the daily through winter, with these tyres. proper budget crap (westlake SA05), but I picked up 4 brand new tyres (200 miles use) for £100!

That'll keep it legal.

Result!

just gotta refurb the one black Rota in bronze, then get the tyres swapped.
 
badger5 said:
no you would'nt... lol
Click to expand...

Well I was joking, as obviously the Lupo or Tuftymobile would be launched so low revs not really applicable...
But just trying to make a point that the smaller turbo has it's benefits, namely quicker spool.

E.g;
My car's peak figures - 254bhp @ 5.8k revs / 305lb/ft @ 3.4k revs
Tuftymobile at same revs - 300bhp @ 5.8k revs / 100lb/ft @ 3.4k revs
Badger Lupo at same revs - 260bhp @ 5.8k revs / 175lb/ft @ 3.4k revs

I reckon i'd nose ahead while the other two are still effectively naturally aspirated 1.8s.


Sorry for the slight thread detour Prawn.
 
JS1500 said:
Do you know which bronze it is, or you might end up with one non-matching wheel!?
Click to expand...

Rota won't give out paint codes, because they're ********. They'll sell you a touch up stick, but that's no use to me when I want to spray a whole wheel!

Going to do the one remaining rim in mazda Driftwood 11b, scouring a few forums suggests it's the closest match that's readily available.

it's a track car anyway, so who cares :p
 
But that only really applies if your being lazy.

If you were driving the car properly (ie racing someone) you wouldnt be going full throttle at 3.4krpm, so the fact their turbos spool slightly later doesnt matter.

I had an interesting run in with a Skoda VRS the other day on the motorway. My car has ~180hp, 4wd, weighs 1450kgs as standard and was four up. There was some traffic, and we got slowed down to 50-60mph and said VRS glued himself to my bumper in a particularly rude "get out the way" fashion. Now even as a standard car it has the same power as me, but is significantly lighter, and the guy was in there himself. He probably had 400kgs on me in weight advantage and should have easily seen me off. When the road cleared, i dropped it into third, planted the boot and pulled left into the middle lane, and was able to hold him off thru third and into fourth before i had to lift for slower cars up ahead. Until i lifted he hadnt closed the gap at all, was just sitting out there hanging off my rear quarter, clearly trying, but getting nowhere. Presumably hes just mashed his foot into the floor in 5th or maybe 4th, and as a result of that wasnt able to pass me even though he was in a clearly faster car.

Drive properly, and the slightly later spool wont matter at all.
 
JS1500 said:
Well I was joking, as obviously the Lupo or Tuftymobile would be launched so low revs not really applicable...
But just trying to make a point that the smaller turbo has it's benefits, namely quicker spool.

E.g;
My car's peak figures - 254bhp @ 5.8k revs / 305lb/ft @ 3.4k revs
Tuftymobile at same revs - 300bhp @ 5.8k revs / 100lb/ft @ 3.4k revs
Badger Lupo at same revs - 260bhp @ 5.8k revs / 175lb/ft @ 3.4k revs

I reckon i'd nose ahead while the other two are still effectively naturally aspirated 1.8s.


Sorry for the slight thread detour Prawn.
Click to expand...

I feel the urge to vbox it when I get a mo.. curious now. :)
 
Buggers, driving my thread off course!

Want to rain to stop now so I can get out for a drive, and I also need good weather to be able to re-paint this one black rota this weekend before tyre fitting!

They're proper lovely wheels though, dead chuffed with them :)
 
Damn :(

Jardo keeps sending me vids of his car now he's got it working properly again, and to be honest, it's making me desperate to get this hybrid on!

Considering how fast his is on a ko3S (working properly unlike mine!) in a full weight road car, I can only imagine that the ko4 hybrid is going to be utterly mental when it does finally go on.

I'm almost wondering if it'll be quick enough on just 16psi to be honest..... Dane was making 280bhp at 16psi from it previously, and the lower boost I run the more reliable it'll be. Perhaps start off at 16psi and see how it goes. Who knows. I just want it to be quick again :(
 
Prawn said:
Damn :(

Jardo keeps sending me vids of his car now he's got it working properly again, and to be honest, it's making me desperate to get this hybrid on!

Considering how fast his is on a ko3S (working properly unlike mine!) in a full weight road car, I can only imagine that the ko4 hybrid is going to be utterly mental when it does finally go on.

I'm almost wondering if it'll be quick enough on just 16psi to be honest..... Dane was making 280bhp at 16psi from it previously, and the lower boost I run the more reliable it'll be. Perhaps start off at 16psi and see how it goes. Who knows. I just want it to be quick again :(
Click to expand...

Get it done mate!!....

...and we need to get Jardo's on the dyno!!!

<tuffty/>
 
How's the new mapping stuff going Bill? Have you done anything with an AGU lump and primative ecu yet? I was considering an ME7.5 conversion, but so many people seem to have mapped ME3.8 perfectly well on BT and hybrid setups, I just don't think it's worth the effort, especially as I want to run some form of additional boost control.
 
Prawn said:
How's the new mapping stuff going Bill? Have you done anything with an AGU lump and primative ecu yet? I was considering an ME7.5 conversion, but so many people seem to have mapped ME3.8 perfectly well on BT and hybrid setups, I just don't think it's worth the effort, especially as I want to run some form of additional boost control.
Click to expand...

That was the same as I felt to be honest mate, Bumble's ECU is pretty dense, and wideband would have been useful.
 
I've got access to an ME7.5 leon cupra that's being broken Paul, if I want it, I can have the entire loom, ECU etc etc, but I don't know how simple it would be. I'm not good with electrics at all.

I don't know if the ME7.5 ECU would work with my clocks and car loom, plus I'd need to find a way to wire in the throttle pedal and all that stuff. I'd rather keep the ME3.8, unless you guys can convince me otherwise!
 
Prawn said:
How's the new mapping stuff going Bill? Have you done anything with an AGU lump and primative ecu yet? I was considering an ME7.5 conversion, but so many people seem to have mapped ME3.8 perfectly well on BT and hybrid setups, I just don't think it's worth the effort, especially as I want to run some form of additional boost control.
Click to expand...

me7.5 is by far the better ecu given the choice.
 
it's not totally free Bill, but it's a very good mate of mine that's stripping the car following a shunt at the Ring, AUQ engined leon, so me7.5 ECU, it can be mine for not a lot I would imagine.

How much do I need? Obviously if I get the ECU and engine loom that plugs together, but will the car loom then plug into the ME7.5 ECU? or will I need to replace the interior loom and clocks as well? I can get it all if required. I know I'll need a map sensor, o2 sensor, and ME7.5 MAF. Are any of the other engine sensors different? like the knock sensors? or alternator plugs and such like?
 
Prawn said:
Damn :(

Jardo keeps sending me vids of his car now he's got it working properly again, and to be honest, it's making me desperate to get this hybrid on!

Considering how fast his is on a ko3S (working properly unlike mine!) in a full weight road car, I can only imagine that the ko4 hybrid is going to be utterly mental when it does finally go on.

I'm almost wondering if it'll be quick enough on just 16psi to be honest..... Dane was making 280bhp at 16psi from it previously, and the lower boost I run the more reliable it'll be. Perhaps start off at 16psi and see how it goes. Who knows. I just want it to be quick again :(
Click to expand...

This post has made my life.

Sorry if its getting you down Bob, do you want me to come home so you can have a play in it?

I cant get this Sunday off work!!!! Boooooo! If I could at the last min though, how much notice do you need Bill?
 
Myself and Mark are both planning this swap on our A4's.

The ECU harness and ECU itself are mostly self contained. It may plug directly into the car, or the wiring may require tweaking. On the A4 it depends on the exact year. For instance 2000> cars have an oil level sensor in the sump, and the harness is slightly different as a result.

You can use any DBW loom with more or less any ME7 ecu, but if for instance you use a non-wideband harness with a wideband ECU then you'll need to add the pins as appropriate for the wideband lambda.

In the A3 you've also got canbus to contend with. All ME3 and some ME7 ECU's use traditional signalling, later ME7's use canbus. You'd ideally want a pre-canbus harness and ECU.

Not sure what will happen if you use a canbus ECU on a non-can car. You might just get some fault codes that need erasing, or half the instrumentation may not work. Its not an issue for me so i've never looked into it.

Lastly, most ME7.5's will be IMMO3, and i'm pretty sure you cant pair an IMMO3 ECU with an earlier cluster, so you'd need to have the immo disabled.
 
Do it :p

You'll also need a MAF (though you'll need a bigger maf for M3.8 anyway if your planning 300hp, probably best to go straight to an S3 one) throttle body and map sensor from the donor engine.
 
Prawn said:
How's the new mapping stuff going Bill? Have you done anything with an AGU lump and primative ecu yet? I was considering an ME7.5 conversion, but so many people seem to have mapped ME3.8 perfectly well on BT and hybrid setups, I just don't think it's worth the effort, especially as I want to run some form of additional boost control.
Click to expand...
Mine's the test mule,LOL

Just need to make some IC pipes to include the MAP boss and I'm away.

Does the A3 have a plug in engine loom like the A4?
 
aragorn said:
Do it :p

You'll also need a MAF (though you'll need a bigger maf for M3.8 anyway if your planning 300hp, probably best to go straight to an S3 one) throttle body and map sensor from the donor engine.
Click to expand...

You will prob need to use the MAF sensor off the Leon too but as Aragorn suggested, S3 housing :thumbsup:

<tuffty/>
 
i'd just use the complete S3 maf. That way you can just pull the entire MLHFM table from an S3 ECU and drop it in, rather than messing with trying to scale the values for the larger housing.

If you dont do it, and the ECU's going cheap, give me a shout as i'm after a HN box or similar.
 
Last edited:
16Klappe said:
This post has made my life.

Sorry if its getting you down Bob, do you want me to come home so you can have a play in it?

I cant get this Sunday off work!!!! Boooooo! If I could at the last min though, how much notice do you need Bill?
Click to expand...
turn up if you can.. I will be all day
 
Thanks for all the info folks, the leon in question is a very early X plate Feb 2001 car, I would think one of the first to run wide band, so it should be immo2 still, and I don't THINK it's canbus.

Immob deleted doesn't bother me at all, although you've just reminded me of the oil level sensor. the Engine / ECU in question does have this, so I'll probably need to get a new sump with level sensor included I'm guessing.....
 
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