Flat Spots in Map (intermittent)

[Cheese]

I have the car booked in with AmD on Tuesday afternoon now. We are going to:

(1) Take the car out for a drive to demonstrate the problem
(2) Perform some diagnostic logging whilst replicating the issue
(3) Try a Revo Stage2 map
(4) Try some different fuel mixture, timing + boost settings with the Revo
(5) Inspect the spark plugs

Hopefully we will at least get closer to an answer tomorrow...

 

[Cheese]

Just got back from AmD after several runs up and down the dual carriageway with a laptop plugged in. No faults, all sensors reporting correctly and not misfires whilst replicating the issue/symptoms.


Over the last few days the I have been seeing similiar behaviour at lower down the revs under hard acceleration, but only from a cold start the first time I open the throttle wide. After I described these additional symptoms as well and having driven the car and having logged data, Simon at AmD seems pretty sure that is the clutch slippling at/around peak torque and when there is the least amount of friction (whilst the clutch is still cold).


The problem with the clutch is not severe enough and the diagnosis is not certain enough, to warrant a change of clutch (especially as I am unlikely to get a new one under warranty). I guess I have two choices now:


(1) Live with it, see if it gets worse, maybe fork out for a new clutch if/when it does get a lot worse
(2) See about getting the Stage 2 map and TBE removed and make back as much as possible in theform of a partial refund from AmD and sell the TBE, then get the ABT map put back on and see if the problem still exists and try and get a new clutch under warranty (if indeed it is the clutch)


I am actually kind of toying with the idea of just trading it in for a TDI...

 

[paddy]

Put the whole lot back to std.....Get a Rvo stg 1 and live happily ever after with a very quick car..but dont expect a std clutch to last long after any remap. I cant tell you how good the REVO map is !! toally transforms the car not just in flexability but in smoothness and performance.........and it works out of the box

 

[Cheese]

Put the whole lot back to std.....Get a Rvo stg 1...

If I am going to do that I might as well just put the ABT map back on. It is a good map. Mind you with claimed peak torque of 420Nm, it is not far behind what the claimed peak torque of what I am running at the moment (450Nm). Now that I have noticed the problem I am pretty sure the clutch will still be slipping (if that is indeed the problem).

If I go back to that it may be difficult getting any issues addressed, although they should be covered under warranty - Bath Audi don't have great after sales service and it is a long round trip to keep making.

 

[paddy]

I would be amazed if ABT warranty the Std clutch on a Stg 1 map S3 !! I wish you luck all the same cheese. you could do with a break.

 

[Cheese]

I would be amazed if ABT warranty the Std clutch on a Stg 1 map S3 !! I wish you luck all the same cheese. you could do with a break.

Double checked with Bath Audi - with 15k on the clock - no. Not even if it was standard unless when they removed it it was totally fubar and an obvious fault. No chance if it is just slipping

 

[Cheese]

OK - things have got worse, which has made them get better (I think). The hesitations/juddering has become much worse over the last two weeks and I had said, based on experiences that I have had with the car from cold start, on a couple of occasions it did not feel like a clutch issue to me plus the exhaust seems to collect carbon very quickly. AmD wanted to drive my car from cold anyway to see if they could be 100% sure that it was running correctly and wanted it for a whole day as they only had it for about 1 hour last time. I dropped it in yesterday and got a phone call from them today at about 4pm - from a cold start at Stage 2 the issue was severe enough to log misfires on cylinders 1 and 3 in VCDS so it looks like we are much closer to finding the cause...

They are trying new spark plugs tomorrow morning...fingers crossed...

Paddy - don't tempt fate by celebrating your successful diagnosis yet. I will let you know later in the week if it actually was the spark plugs!

 

[paddy]

I have nothing but sympathy mate, these sorts of problems can drive you to despair. At least now you have a second opinion as its played up with someone else. Good luck

 

[Cheese]

Spark plugs have made the car drive so, so much better! It is much quicker above 4,000rpm now.

There is still a minor hesitation/juddering in 4th and above at 3,500rpm but it is occasional and very minor plus the ECU still needs to adapt - I have only driven it for about 30 mins since the work. Feels like the ECU pulling things back perhaps? I will see how it runs for the next month or two...lets hope it doesn't get worse again as I think I can be happy with it as it is now. If it does, the next thing to change is the coil packs and then the injectors, but apparently those are expensive.

But it is not all good news. Just spent £160 on a new tyre because I ran over a screw

 

[paddy]

Hi Cheese
Guess what...I have exactly the same symptoms as you now ....Did you go for iridium plugs or another set of std ??

 

[Cheese]

That is bad news Paddy - sorry to hear that. Hopefully it is just your spark plugs and not the same 'underlying' (minor) issue I still have that the new spark plugs didn't fix. The plugs I had fitted were iridium and I think they are a colder rating as well.

Since the new plugs (250 miles ago) my car has continued to run a lot better. I still get the occassional hesitation in 4th and above but only at ~3,500rpm and is different to the misfiring I was seeing just before the plugs were changed. When it is colder/full of people/going up hill it seems like it is under more stress - just not 100% smooth from 3,000rpm - 3,500rpm. I have changed my driving style as a result and tend to drop it down a gear where I didn't before so I hardly ever notice it. I can live with it as long as it doesn't get any worse.

Good luck get yours sorted cheaply + keep me posted.

 

[paddy]

Cheers Cheese
Had a word with Warren on here and he thinks NGK BKR7EIX would be a good starting point for Iridiums.
I had the map removed today so i could take the car back under warranty. Needless to say it runs like a dream without the map so no point in taking to Audi..

i get the feeling that the maps are good,,but not quite there yet, maybe Audi are not so daft keeping a bit of headroom in the performance curve... I cant really afford to have a £34k car thats temperamental TBH, it needs to be reliable over and above all else and i cant help thinking the maps are a sort of 90% compromise..

we shall see.

 

[MG]

Hey Cheese - Sorry to hear about your problems but glad you seem to be resolving them.

I have this misfire/stuttering issue on my 2005 2.0T. The car was in Audi today to have the coil packs replaced under a recall and I really hoped that would fix the issue. After the coilpacks were fitted Audi said the issue was likely to be resolved but wanted to charge me £57 to plug in the diagnostics and test drive the car. I figured I might as well test drive it myslef and unfortunately the problem is still there! ****.

I plan to replace the plugs so was wondering what type AMD fitted for you. Warren previously mentioned NGK BKR7EIX... Are they what you have fitted?

 

[MG]

Just seen your note Paddy - mine also runs fun without my map (Bluefin) but it has also run absolutely fine with my remap for 2.5 years. I'll give the iridium plugs a go and hope that resolves mine.

Hope you fix yours ok.

 

[Cheese]

CORRECTION: I got hold of AmD and now have the details of the part. They are NOT a stage cooler, nor are they Iridium. They are the NGK part that is identical to the OEM spec:

NGK R
Laser Platinum
PFR7S8EG
1675

 

[Cheese]

2,000 miles after the plugs were replaced and after an Audi service only last week (where they found the car had been remapped - stealth map my $%#!) and I just had two quite severe hesitations on the way home at arbitrary rpms. One in 4th, one in 6th. Both were as boost was coming on.

 

[paddy]

****** hell Cheese, sounds like plugs again !! I'm 2k into my new plugs and its running fine on the NGK's

 

[Cheese]

Mine are NGK but a different model to yours I think. I am going to speak to AmD tomorrow...

Last time I had problems the misfires were (eventually) logged on cylinders 1 and 3. If it is the same again at least it might indicate a consistent problem and therefore a solution (either coil packs or injectors).