W3STY's Progress Thread

[badger5]

this came from Tufftys thread...

If you don't mind loosing fogs and having pipes on show then fit an ebay cooler like Welly has... no apparent flow restriction and repeatable results on the dyno... if you want to retain the fogs then essentially do a ****e load of work like S3 Paul did to get an ebay one in, fit and AH/Forge with 51mm outlets or wait and see 'if' I can get 60mm outlets onto the AH in which case you could have a chat with Alex about producing something similar...

Alex says the core is good for 400+bhp which will be where I am aiming for but thats not to say it wouldn't benefit being larger or deeper...

As I have said in the FMIC thread I started its really down to how much work you are prepared to put in to get something like this fitted and how much compromise you are willing to make as to what has to go...

For a K04 (std or hybrid) then I don't see it being a major problem as tbh they run on the edge when you try to get the most power from them... all the S3's dyno'd so far are very sensative to heat and they produce a lot of it when maxed... there isn't much a larger FMIC will do to help there, WMI is what you want for that...

My engine produces the same power on 1.5bar as it was at nearly 2bar but the difference is it runs cooler... this suggests that despite the turbo being able to produce the the airflow for more power, the components of the engine will not flow it... this backs up and produces more heat which pulls timing yadda yadda yadda....

To answer your question, going 60mm will remove the current bottle neck 'I' am experiencing with the FMIC, on a K04 you would not really notice it... but I will need to do the same (improve overall flow) on the rest of the engine components before I can turn up the boost a bit more and realise the potential left in my GT30... larger throttle body, large port head and eventually a large port SEM inlet mani will give the the full flow potential of the turbo and whack my power up a bit to boot...

< tuffty/>

and look at post #193 in the bit below. I based my purchase on this information.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...y-forge-s3-fmic-image-heavy-4.html#post872642

and if you read ALL of the thread you will see, what it actually performed like with DATA confirming its shyte.
On face value this cores been claimed to be many things by Alex.. Facts and Data however, say to the contrary... Words vs Data

On bog stock k04 on a stage 1, it cooled more than twin smic.. after that, its inadequacies became more and more apparent. Pipesize is too small, and the core itself does not support the GT30 that paul runs.. It was a k04 install to begin with. Pipes were enlarged (by me) and made no noticable difference.. Only when logging pre-post intercooler on the dyno, did the issue reveal istelf, and reveal the sales patter to be very inaccurate.

Avoid it.. and dont believe the AH info... its not supported by test data

There is no surprise, that now knowing the data, a larger fmic was embarked upon, which was based on a core used on rs500... trimmed a little to fit an S3, and this is what should be offered imho to S3's, REPLACING the smaller, proven to be inadequate, unit. The only people to have tested it are us... as far as I am aware. The info is posted on this forum in tufftys very open/honest build thread, for others to see.

My advise is forget the smaller core..

 

[Prawn]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, this thread is making me think.....

I've got 51mm piping on my hot side, and 63mm on the cold side, with 63mm inlets and a small core like Westys.

I was planning to simply drop in the large toyosports core for my hybrid, with reducers on the ends to my 51 and 63mm pipes.

Is the 51mm hotside piping from the turbo to the IC going to cause a problem? or should that be big enough to support the 300bhp I'm chasing?

 

[<tuffty/>]

this came from Tufftys thread...

If you don't mind loosing fogs and having pipes on show then fit an ebay cooler like Welly has... no apparent flow restriction and repeatable results on the dyno... if you want to retain the fogs then essentially do a ****e load of work like S3 Paul did to get an ebay one in, fit and AH/Forge with 51mm outlets or wait and see 'if' I can get 60mm outlets onto the AH in which case you could have a chat with Alex about producing something similar...

Alex says the core is good for 400+bhp which will be where I am aiming for but thats not to say it wouldn't benefit being larger or deeper...

As I have said in the FMIC thread I started its really down to how much work you are prepared to put in to get something like this fitted and how much compromise you are willing to make as to what has to go...

For a K04 (std or hybrid) then I don't see it being a major problem as tbh they run on the edge when you try to get the most power from them... all the S3's dyno'd so far are very sensative to heat and they produce a lot of it when maxed... there isn't much a larger FMIC will do to help there, WMI is what you want for that...

My engine produces the same power on 1.5bar as it was at nearly 2bar but the difference is it runs cooler... this suggests that despite the turbo being able to produce the the airflow for more power, the components of the engine will not flow it... this backs up and produces more heat which pulls timing yadda yadda yadda....

To answer your question, going 60mm will remove the current bottle neck 'I' am experiencing with the FMIC, on a K04 you would not really notice it... but I will need to do the same (improve overall flow) on the rest of the engine components before I can turn up the boost a bit more and realise the potential left in my GT30... larger throttle body, large port head and eventually a large port SEM inlet mani will give the the full flow potential of the turbo and whack my power up a bit to boot...

< tuffty/>

and look at post #193 in the bit below. I based my purchase on this information.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...y-forge-s3-fmic-image-heavy-4.html#post872642

A lot of water has passed under the bridge I guess since then...

Based on further findings I can say that even with the 60mm ends I put on mine I was still experiencing issues with pressure drop...

Guess I could do with adding an update to that but all I can really say is that the original FMIC from AH on 51mm ends made a noticable improvement when I fitted it. Since going big turbo I have gone through several changes and tests etc as I 'develop' my build... this has come to highlight that the core of the original AH Fabs just isn't up to the task of supporting my configuaration and arguably anything beyond a stage 2 K04 it would seem...

I should update that thread really if peoaple are basing buying decisions based on info that is now out of date...

<tuffty/>

 

[s3dave]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, this thread is making me think.....

I've got 51mm piping on my hot side, and 63mm on the cold side, with 63mm inlets and a small core like Westys.

I was planning to simply drop in the large toyosports core for my hybrid, with reducers on the ends to my 51 and 63mm pipes.

Is the 51mm hotside piping from the turbo to the IC going to cause a problem? or should that be big enough to support the 300bhp I'm chasing?

I have read that making a larger cold side can reduce pressure drops....

 

[badger5]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, this thread is making me think.....

I've got 51mm piping on my hot side, and 63mm on the cold side, with 63mm inlets and a small core like Westys.

I was planning to simply drop in the large toyosports core for my hybrid, with reducers on the ends to my 51 and 63mm pipes.

Is the 51mm hotside piping from the turbo to the IC going to cause a problem? or should that be big enough to support the 300bhp I'm chasing?

stock 225bhp piping is 60mm............
why make it harder for the turbo to pump air thru?

 

[badger5]

A lot of water has passed under the bridge I guess since then...

Based on further findings I can say that even with the 60mm ends I put on mine I was still experiencing issues with pressure drop...

Guess I could do with adding an update to that but all I can really say is that the original FMIC from AH on 51mm ends made a noticable improvement when I fitted it. Since going big turbo I have gone through several changes and tests etc as I 'develop' my build... this has come to highlight that the core of the original AH Fabs just isn't up to the task of supporting my configuaration and arguably anything beyond a stage 2 K04 it would seem...

I should update that thread really if peoaple are basing buying decisions based on info that is now out of date...

<tuffty/>

and peeps they should'nt make conclusions before reading the whole thing,.. They need to read the whole thing to understand the evolution......... if they have a handy day to read it - lol

 

[Welly]

Right guys, I think you've made up my mind for me. Bye bye fog lights

 

[Prawn]

stock 225bhp piping is 60mm............
why make it harder for the turbo to pump air thru?

Mines a 150bhp ko3 car though Bill, and the IC kit is designed with that in mind, so the hot side pipes are 51mm just like the turbo outlet.

I'm just trying to work out if I'll need to completely redo my FMIC setup, or if I can drop a larger core into my existing pipework.

 

[Westy]

Mines a 150bhp ko3 car though Bill, and the IC kit is designed with that in mind, so the hot side pipes are 51mm just like the turbo outlet.

I'm just trying to work out if I'll need to completely redo my FMIC setup, or if I can drop a larger core into my existing pipework.

Ill be using 2 76mm - 63mm reducer 90 degree silicone bends on the core. This means I can keep all the 63mm hosing i've already bought

 

[Westy]

Right I've done it!

Just ordered 1 of these:

FMIC FFRONT MOUNT TURBO INTERCOOLER TYPE B 600x300x76MM on eBay (end time 16-Jul-11 22:12:49 BST)

and 2 of these:

76mm > 63mm 90° Elbow Reducer Silicone Hose Black on eBay (end time 04-Aug-11 13:49:22 BST)

 

[Sam_]

mr silicone must love you

and mrs silicone probably spends all his profits

 

[Westy]

mr silicone must love you

lol. I could be a Mr Silicone distributor with the amount of stuff i've bought off him recently!

 

[badger5]

Mines a 150bhp ko3 car though Bill, and the IC kit is designed with that in mind, so the hot side pipes are 51mm just like the turbo outlet.

I'm just trying to work out if I'll need to completely redo my FMIC setup, or if I can drop a larger core into my existing pipework.

you have changed your requirements......... so what worked before wont be as well suited to the 300bhp goal you now plan for.

 

[Westy]

you have changed your requirements......... so what worked before wont be as well suited to the 300bhp goal you now plan for.

Prawny, just get jiggy with Mr biggie

 

[S3Lol]

Which intercooler would you recommend with the max I will be going is a K04 hybrid (See my sig for other supporting mods).

 

[badger5]

check out Danes thread... just updated it

crossposted to here..
anyhows...

look what turned up from Toyosports

existing bumper bar trim clears well

alignment to existing ends..

Makes it look a lot better than this

Original sized AH thing

The modded ends on the AH V1 thing, from 51mm to 60mm 90' bend inlets

vs Tufftys (larger) core, which should be the V2 AH item I am 'not patiently waiting for'

and fogs remain fitable on tufftys.. (not likely on 76mm ends of the toyo tho)

 

[finesse]

That's a bargain, why pay 600 for a porge fmic?

 

[Syvo]

when you can just spray forge on it lmao my fmic went from £200 to £600 in 5mins lol

 

[Westy]

Well, Tuesday night is late night mechanics night so in true fashion Tam and I attacked a few jobs.

First up was to replace my poor old tired intank fuel pump. My visit to Bill's two weeks ago revealed that my fuel pump just couldn't pump enough fuel high up the rev range. He believes this to be down to the pump having to work over time on my last map as it was constantly triggering the EGT protection and dumping fuel in to cool the engine down.

Back seats out and service panel off:

Fuel clips and electrical clip off:

Top of pump off:

Whole pump out. Staring into half a tank of V power

Was starting to get a headache from the petrol fumes at this point but cracked on.

Lovely new clean pump:

Bottom part in:

All done:

I started her up and she was fine so cracked on with the next job.

As a birthday present Tam had nocked me up one of his tasty heat shields for my Jetex, he's a good lad

We plonked it in to see what was needed. I'd cut my top 90 degree bend for my B5 TIP as I fitted it to my airbox so I'll need a new top piece now.

All of this was done by 9pm and we were a bit lost for things to do so I wrapped my grill surround. It took an hour and a half and i'm not 100% happy with it but its better than the stone chipped ming blue it was before:

I'll get a pic with it on in the day light tomorrow morning.

Late night mechanics is soon to become a thing of a past as I'm nearly done. Just need to fit my Boxster Brembos and fit my new FMIC and i'm finished.

Look out for some late night detailing coming soon

 

[superkarl]

It's nearly the end of whats been a great series

Good work.
So when will you be getting the map updated, surely there's a little more to be had out of the old girl?

 

[Westy]

It's nearly the end of whats been a great series

Good work.
So when will you be getting the map updated, surely there's a little more to be had out of the old girl?

With the new fuel pump and the FMIC there should be a bit more to squeeze out the minger. Not sure when I'll get back to bills again but it'll happen eventually.

 

[Westy]

And here's the newly wrapped grill surround on, in the light:

 

[Jason.s]

Glad the pump went well Was dreading coming on this morning to find a PM saying the pump was wrong or something lol.

 

[Westy]

Glad the pump went well Was dreading coming on this morning to find a PM saying the pump was wrong or something lol.

Thanks again Jason.

It was spot on, I did check the part number before removing the old pump

 

[Jason.s]

haha no worries. I knew it was right but if it was a customer over the front tbh i wouldnt be that bothered if it was wrong lol. Someone on here caused me to panic a bit

 

[Westy]

Just popped home for lunch and had possibly the best post ever waiting for me

Firstly was my AITP ticket
Secondly was my paperwork from the DVLA allowing me to fit these:

Then there was my huuuuuuge FMIC core and the pipework to do it. Roll on this evening

 

[finesse]

Pimping! !!

 

[<tuffty/>]

Pics of when I was offering up the Welly'esque FMIC on mine...

<tuffty/>

 

[Westy]

Thanks Tufts. Someone went a bit OTT on the crash bar didn't they?

Any pics of how it was fixed in place?

I just couldn't believe how big the in/out was, could nearly fit my fist in!

 

[Dani_B19]

Looking at that pic of the toyosports fmic, surely you could fit 2 reducing elbows (1 either side) so the pipework went into the smic area, that way would you then be able to keep the fogs?

 

[Westy]

Looking at that pic of the toyosports fmic, surely you could fit 2 reducing elbows (1 either side) so the pipework went into the smic area, that way would you then be able to keep the fogs?

That's the plan batman I'll let you know how it goes in a few hours.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Thanks Tufts. Someone went a bit OTT on the crash bar didn't they?

Any pics of how it was fixed in place?

I just couldn't believe how big the in/out was, could nearly fit my fist in!

Never fitted it in the end so no not got any pics for that... was too big for keeping fogs

Its plausible that knowing who and what I know now that I could have changed the ends and welded on 63mm pipes etc to allow it to stand a chance of fitting I guess... not sure what the actual size comparison would be but...

...vs my new AH one...

The ebay one being deeper of course... its possible it could be made to fit like my AH one with a bit of tactical fabrication...

<tuffty/>

 

[s3 Hoggy]

And here's the newly wrapped grill surround on, in the light:

That looks exactly the same as mine!

 

[Westy]

They do look similar width wise. I suppose if you know someone whos handy at welding it could be done. I'll see what the deal is with the reducers on.

 

[Westy]

That looks exactly the same as mine!

Well we cant help having style Hoggy

 

[s3 Hoggy]

Hahaha

 

[superkarl]

Looking at that pic of the toyosports fmic, surely you could fit 2 reducing elbows (1 either side) so the pipework went into the smic area, that way would you then be able to keep the fogs?

My thoughts too

 

[finesse]

regarding fogs, saw a thread on here about having the cool upside down to save fogs....?

 

[s3dave]

If the inlets..outlets are bigger than 65mm you lose the fogs.....theres just not enough room even if you reduce them down to 63mm

 

[<tuffty/>]

If the inlets..outlets are bigger than 65mm you lose the fogs.....theres just not enough room even if you reduce them down to 63mm

I have 63mm bends and they fit but... if you are just using ends and silicon joiners the joiners will be too large...

Looking at the ebay one I reckon you could cut off the 76mm outlets, weld a couple of 63mm 90's on (need to be right at the bottom) then infill the hole thats left... that could work... it looks fairly similar in size otherwise...

<tuffty/>