It's time to take preventative action against thieving scumbags

kkp0897 said:
It is possible to erase UV pen markings?.. with white spirits or something else? A bit like the thread above, if it degrades over a 12 month period, not very useful.
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Don't know about erasing, but can certainly say that the marks last more than a year. I marked a camcorder 12 years ago & it's still clearly visible.

Cheers, Dave

(Have just realised I should get a new camcorder!)
 
im hear guy's lol .... fill em all in !!! scum bags ..

Ive just come on here to find kaz i need someone with vagcom as my passat has a couple of issues , how is everyone ? I miss this site i may pop on now and again but when i do its like rubbing salt in the wounds not having my sportback anymore ... But i do love my passat to , its an estate got everything my sporback had bar the rnse ...

I know tints are illegal on the fronts i had mine all round and never got a pull , also i live in a ruff area i never had my rnse stolen cos you could'nt see inside the car , maybe you guy's should get dark tints on the back this why light tints on the front look legal and at night they wont be able to see in the car , just a thought ..

And yes they are scum i would beat them to death tbh ... Im kinda glad i got a passat now , i sleap alot better at night , it seams like im almost happier in a way ..
 
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Glad you are well Jonny. There are a few pretenders to your crown on here now, but nobody dispenses justice like you do. :D

I bet that your heating bill has gone down now you don't have to sleep with the window open! All the best mate.
 
thank's pal , and no the heating has flew through the roof , must be the greedy russians putting the gas up again ...lol

As for the car , i sleep alot better at night , I remember every noise up at the window looking and thinking is this worth it , to the point i would end up inside and the answer is YES ..LOL

Becasue id never let any shyte make me do what i dont want to , but financial times firced the sale on my car not the thiefs , but i deffinatly feal better at night that's for sure ...
 
Staz said:
No, I wouldn't think people would want their contact details made public would they?
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Perhaps not, but I thought we were having a list of owners serial numbers so that we could all check the list prior to buying a second hand on on ebay or wherever...Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
 
beanoir said:
Perhaps not, but I thought we were having a list of owners serial numbers so that we could all check the list prior to buying a second hand on on ebay or wherever...Have I got the wrong end of the stick?
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Hmm perhaps a little, I was thinking more like send me a PM and I'll check the list and get back to you. I'm open to suggestions on how it's done, hence the thread, I reckon a database is a good idea though.
 
I don't see anything wrong with publishing serial numbers, or at least the numbers of missing units. That way we don't have to bother you every time we look one up. If we come across the missing unit in question we can just PM you to let you know and you can let the rightful owner know so he can take it up with the authorities
 
sub39h said:
I don't see anything wrong with publishing serial numbers, or at least the numbers of missing units. That way we don't have to bother you every time we look one up. If we come across the missing unit in question we can just PM you to let you know and you can let the rightful owner know so he can take it up with the authorities
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I see where you're coming from, the only reservation I have about puttings serials up is we know the scummers trawl this forum and if one has an RNS-E in hand with a known serial he's definitely going to do whatever it takes to remove all evidence. If there's a chance that we have the serial but he doesn't know it then there's just that little bit more of a chance of him not going to that extra effort. I have no experience of this and I may be wrong but that's just what I was thinking :shrug:

Something else I was thinking about, do we need to get everyone to send their serials in or just when one gets stolen? I reckon if we just do the latter there's a good chance people won't have got around to writing the serials down before it's too late (I'm the worst at getting around to sorting stuff like that out), if we encourage people to send them in we can hopefully avoid that happening.
 
Staz said:
I see where you're coming from, the only reservation I have about puttings serials up is we know the scummers trawl this forum and if one has an RNS-E in hand with a known serial he's definitely going to do whatever it takes to remove all evidence. If there's a chance that we have the serial but he doesn't know it then there's just that little bit more of a chance of him not going to that extra effort. I have no experience of this and I may be wrong but that's just what I was thinking :shrug:
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well i reckon we should all make an agreement between ourselves not to buy units unless we verify the serial number first.

if we publish the numbers of missing units and the the scum try and obliterate it on the HU then we'd know something was up anyway, and the unit would become (relatively) worthless.

so overall it still serves a purpose.
 
sub39h said:
well i reckon we should all make an agreement between ourselves not to buy units unless we verify the serial number first.

if we publish the numbers of missing units and the the scum try and obliterate it on the HU then we'd know something was up anyway, and the unit would become (relatively) worthless.

so overall it still serves a purpose.
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Perhaps, although I'd rather the thief wouldn't be given the reason to scrub it off anyway, one aim is to try and get the unit back to its rightful owner too don't forget.
 
Staz said:
Perhaps, although I'd rather the thief wouldn't be given the reason to scrub it off anyway, one aim is to try and get the unit back to its rightful owner too don't forget.
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agreed, but the ultimate aim is to stop it being stolen in the first place. if there's nobody to buy then they won't be stolen?
 
It's a good idea in theory, but in practice I think there are many reasons why this won't make a blind bit of difference to RNS-E thefts etc.

Sorry.

*braces himself for an all out attack*
 
audi upgrades
aythreee said:
It's a good idea in theory, but in practice I think there are many reasons why this won't make a blind bit of difference to RNS-E thefts etc.
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Absolutely spot on, there is a very very good reason this wont work at all, you need to understand the technicalities why they're nicking mk1 units atm, also why apologise for your opinion.
 
NHN said:
Absolutely spot on, there is a very very good reason this wont work at all, you need to understand the technicalities why they're nicking mk1 units atm, also why apologise for your opinion.
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Saying sorry because I don't want to be the thread spoil sport, but oh well....

Agree about the technicalities also.
And in addition to that, there is going to be the problem of people's "honesty" and how this whole thing is managed.

I'll explain:

Staz, let me ask....

I buy an RNS-E and send you a PM asking if the serial number is on your private database. You check and it is the unit of a member who has had their's stolen.

Question 1.... What happens then? What do you do now that you know that I have someone else's unit?

I then try to reclaim the money from paypal, but for some reason I can't get my money back off them. This is quite common with paypal. Or sometimes it takes ages and until you actually get your money back you're not sure that you were ever going to.

So I've got two choices....
1) send the unit back to it's rightful owner and then try my luck with paypal getting my money back, maybe facing the prospect of having no rns and no money back.
2) hold on to the unit until I get my money back from paypal, but knowing at this point that you know I have the stolen unit of another member.

So question 2.... At what stage do you tell the other member that I have their unit??

Question 3.... What are you going to do if I decide to hold on to the unit until I get my money back???

Question 4.... what happens if I can't get my money back and decide that I don't want to take a hit for £400+, so keep the unit, and then the other member pressure you into providing them with any details ASN may hold about me so they can persue via the police.

I could go on with many other scenarios which are very likely to happen off of the back of your idea.
 
Another scenario........

I buy a RNS that I haven't checked the serial number of. I then sell it on for some reason and list it on ebay. A member asks me what the serial number is, I tell him what it is, he checks it with you, it turns out that it's the stolen unit of a member on your list, you tell the member his stolen unit is on ebay (??) the member contacts me asking for it back.

Now lets say I bought the unit a few months back, maybe not even off of ebay or maybe by cash, so there's no chance of me getting my money back.

What happens then??

If it was my unit that had been stolen I'd be getting the police involved to get it back, and passing on the details of ASN as a place to start.

I wonder what faction one would think about the site being used in this way and all of the potential implications related to it.

The term... "Can of worms" springs to mind.

In a perfect and right world the idea works, but in the real world it just won't, most of the time.
 
Aythreeee is alluding to a lot of things I was earlier, but I still think it's worth a shot. We can't sit back and do nothing, and if it doesn't work we haven't lost anything surely.
 
All very valid points, Nigel thanks for the PM and making me more aware of the situation.

Perhaps an open access database is a better idea then as the onus is then on you as the buyer to make the decision?

I've created the thread to gain ideas don't forget and as sub39h rightly says we can't sit back and do nothing. I would really hate to spend the next couple of years seeing more and more threads about stolen RNS-Es :(
 
sub39h said:
I still think it's worth a shot.
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I'm not sure it is. Although to be fair, that's with regard to ASN and the innocent buyer of a stolen goods, rather than the person who has had it stolen.

I wouldn't want to be the middle man in a stolen RNS-E tug off war.

sub39h said:
and if it doesn't work we haven't lost anything surely.
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This is my point, I think there is potential for problems. Messy problems.
I can see the threads that would be started already..... "MEMBER XXXXX... GIVE ME BACK MY RNS-E!!!!"

Although, realistically, the idea will probably all just fizzle out into nothing. IMO.
 
aythreee said:
I'm not sure it is. Although to be fair, that's with regard to ASN and the innocent buyer of a stolen goods, rather than the person who has had it stolen.

I wouldn't want to be the middle man in a stolen RNS-E tug off war.



This is my point, I think there is potential for problems. Messy problems.
I can see the threads that would be started already..... "MEMBER XXXXX... GIVE ME BACK MY RNS-E!!!!"

Although, realistically, the idea will probably all just fizzle out into nothing. IMO.
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with my solution tho this doesn't happen.

1. Member A checks the serial number before purchase. (Or the seller does not disclose the s/n and member A walks away.)
2. Member A then cross checks serial on ASN.
3. Member A discovers the unit is a missing unit.
4. Member A contacts ASNs mods, who inform Member B that their missing unit has turned up on eBay/whatever.

that's the way i'd handle it, and your problem doesn't arise. THEN we have nothing to lose.
 
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sub39h said:
with my solution tho this doesn't happen.

1. Member A checks the serial number before purchase. (Or the buyer does not disclose the s/n and member A walks away.)
2. Member A then cross checks serial on ASN.
3. Member A discovers the unit is a missing unit.
4. Member A contacts ASNs mods, who inform Member B that their missing unit has turned up on eBay/whatever.

that's the way i'd handle it, and your problem doesn't arise. THEN we have nothing to lose.
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Let's be honest about this..... an ebay seller who knows he is selling stolen units is not going to provide serial numbers to people that ask, and will just sell it to the next person that comes along and buys it without asking questions.
Therefore you can forget your idea in this scenario as the process ends at number 1, and the member who has had it stolen is no closer to getting it back, which staz mentioned was one of the objectives of this idea.


The other possibility is that member A has already purchased the unit. They find out after that its stolen (that means the mod is also aware that member A has member B's unit), so now they either have to hand it over or keep it and things get messy. Although staz's idea of making it public helps in this.
But I would guess that most, if not all, would keep quiet about having paid for a stolen one if they saw the serial number listed in an open thread. So it kinda makes that a bit pointless too.


So, going back to your point, there maybe is a possibility of "nothing to lose", but I would have to add to that "nothing to gain" as well. That's in the open list situation.

In the private 'moderator ran' list, there is lots to lose.
 
Staz said:
Is that thought on the basis of sub39h's scenario?
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Nope. Its on the basis that the serial number of stolen units are there for all to see and the buyer does what they feel is best.
But as mentioned in my last post, I think it will be fruitless, but does not put you or ASN in tricky situations.
 
If someone refuses to tell you the serial number of the unit then I would report the item to eBay. Maybe that doesn't work in most cases but it's worked for me in the past where the seller got a warning and subsequently stopped selling the item (and recently paid out of court to settle). Anything is better than nothing after all.

I'm not going to take credit for the public list idea (unlike you taking credit for the 8P naming idea :icon_thumright:) but yes it does remove any ASN involvement. Back to your scenario though, if someone has already purchased the unit and are within the 45 days (I could understand anyone over that not wanting to do anything) a)they can try and get their money back b)They may be able to get the seller into bother. That sounds like a lot to gain to me. Again, anything is better than nothing.
 
aythreee said:
Let's be honest about this..... an ebay seller who knows he is selling stolen units is not going to provide serial numbers to people that ask, and will just sell it to the next person that comes along and buys it without asking questions.
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except i think it's fairly safe to assume that a large number of people who would want to retrofit RNS-E to their car or even know that it can be done are likely to be enthusiasts and hence members of a forum such as this one. if we between ourselves agree to a code of conduct on this matter we're taking away enough of their business to stop them selling on stolen units, and hence stop them being stolen in the first place.

i agree it's slightly idealist but my example overrides your troublesome scenario and still allows us an opportunity to stop theft at all. surely that in itself is worth a crack.
 
sub39h said:
except i think it's fairly safe to assume that a large number of people who would want to retrofit RNS-E to their car or even know that it can be done are likely to be enthusiasts and hence members of a forum such as this one. if we between ourselves agree to a code of conduct on this matter we're taking away enough of their business to stop them selling on stolen units, and hence stop them being stolen in the first place.
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Oh come on mate, please don't tell me you seriously think that?!
Do you really think that this idea can impact on the buying/selling of stolen rns-e's so much that it has an effect on the stealing of the units in the first place??
Please don't tell me you do.

ASN has quite a few members, but we ain't exactly a buying force in the audi second hand parts market, are we.
 
aythreee said:
ASN has quite a few members, but we ain't exactly a buying force in the audi second hand parts market, are we.
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hmm i think we'd have to agree to disagree on that.

either way, we wouldn't know unless we tried, would we?
 
sub39h said:
hmm i think we'd have to agree to disagree on that.

either way, we wouldn't know unless we tried, would we?
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Going back to your claim, here is a simple yes or no question for you.....

Do you think that this proposed list of serial numbers or a "code of conduct" on audi-sport.net is going to stop or reduce rns-e theft in the UK?
 
aythreee said:
Going back to your claim, here is a simple yes or no question for you.....

Do you think that this proposed list of serial numbers or a "code of conduct" on audi-sport.net is going to stop or reduce rns-e theft in the UK?
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stop = no
reduce = yes

but with all due respect, you could try help find a solution rather than shooting down the best one we have.

i'd rather try and be proven wrong than not try at all.
 
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sub39h said:
stop = no
reduce = yes

but with all due respect, you could try help find a solution than shooting down the best one we have.

i'd rather try and be proven wrong than not try at all.
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:faint: First of all you said it would stop the theft, now you're saying it wouldn't.
And as for reducing the theft.... there are millions spent on trying to stop or reduce the theft of cars and their contents so how you think this idea of serial numbers is going to some how reduce the number of thefts is beyond me.
And what do you mean by "reduce"?? (If you're gonna say a reduction of one, then i'm finished with the discussion.)

I can't offer a solution because I don't have one, and going back to what I just said about the amount of money thrown at stopping this type of theft failing, the chances that an idea coming from our little corner of the internet changing it is zero.
The people that steal or sell these units are far too cunning to allow a thread of serial numbers to stop them.

As for "shooting down" the idea, I'm not. I'm just offering my opinion on it, as that's what this thread is for.
And also with respect, by saying that you've adopted the stance that your posts are often met with...... i.e. you are just arguing etc, when really you are simply airing an opinion which doesn't fall in line with what others might think. :no:

I'll leave my input at that though, because it sounds like i'm arguing the toss again! :tapedshut:
 
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aythreee said:
:faint: First of all you said it would stop the theft, now you're saying it wouldn't.
And as for reducing the theft.... there are millions spent on trying to stop or reduce the theft of cars and their contents so how you think this idea of serial numbers is going to some how reduce the number of thefts is beyond me.
And what do you mean by "reduce"?? (If you're gonna say a reduction of one, then i'm finished with the discussion.)

I can't offer a solution because I don't have one, and going back to what I just said about the amount of money thrown at stopping this type of theft failing, the chances that an idea coming from our little corner of the internet changing it is zero.
The people that steal or sell these units are far too cunning to allow a thread of serial numbers to stop them.

As for "shooting down" the idea, I'm not. I'm just offering my opinion on it, as that's what this thread is for.
And also with respect, by saying that you've adopted the stance that your posts are often met with...... i.e. you are just arguing etc, when really you are simply airing an opinion which doesn't fall in line with what others might think. :no:
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i apologise. my wording before was perhaps inaccurate. i feel this can make a difference which is why i feel passionate about it. atm i don't even have RNS-E, so i have no reason to even get involved, but it's sad that members are feeling like the should sell their cars because of fear of theft, or that a member recently has resorted to selling his wing mirrors for fear of vandals.

if we do nothing, as far as i'm concerned we're sending an open invite that we're allowing this to happen. i'm willing to entertain the idea. even if one less RNS unit is nicked as a result, it's better than nothing. it's not cost us anything to set up, and at least one person hasn't had to go through the heartache or the financial implications.

your reservations are fair, but i've provided a reasonable work around. if it doesn't work i'll put my hands up and say it didn't work, but at least we tried.

if that's argumentative then fine.
 
Very interesting discussion and I don't know the answer.

However, I have not got RNS-E at the moment and what I would be interested in knowing, bearing in mind all this discussion, is :-

Should I decide to have one, where could I buy one, not at Audi prices, that I know hasn't been knocked off, and how could I prove it ?

I am fully in favour of not buying off 'scumbags' etc. and would not condone any action that is likely to encourage theft of parts or damage to any car but neither am I in favour of paying dealer prices if it could possibly (legally) be avoided !! :unsure:
 
mike foster said:
Should I decide to have one, where could I buy one, not at Audi prices, that I know hasn't been knocked off, and how could I prove it ?
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buy off Nigel. solves all your problems. and it's MY10 so it's just about useless if someone does choose to nick it, because Audi are reluctant to give out codes and it can't as yet be hacked.
 
sub39h said:
buy off Nigel. solves all your problems. and it's MY10 so it's just about useless if someone does choose to nick it, because Audi are reluctant to give out codes and it can't as yet be hacked.
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Thanks for that - he would be the first port of call anyway - but is that the only safe route ?

Bet the 'scumbags' don't know they're just about useless though !! :ermm:
 
Staz,

I think the idea mentioned above of having a list open to the forum is the best idea, it leaves the onus on the buyer to do (or not do) their own checking. I don't expect that if somebody had bought a unit then found out it was another members stolen one they are likely to do anything apart from either feel very charitable, give it back to it's rightful owner and foot the loss, or not say anything and nobody will be any wiser.

I can't really see there being any fuss over who's RNSe is who's, if so then a very rare occasion perhaps. However, if there were a situation like that then it does need to be resolved and rightfully so. If somebody bought a dodgy unit on Ebay then it's up to them to ensure it's not nicked, and if I were the member that found out somebody here did have my unit and refused to give it back i'd be on to the police pronto of course, and why not, is that a bad thing? Lets face it, we all know really that most of them are nicked, we just pretend we don't because we're getting a good deal.

Like Sub says above, if people trying to sell dodgy units start to find themselves being challenged on source and identity then it will make things a little more difficult for them, granted I don't expect it suddenly cure the thefts completely, but it'll make them stop and think a bit more about doing it if they're harder to shift. I can also understand Aythreee thinking perhaps it may not work, which I don't think is beyond the realms of possibility either, but hey people didn't believe Isaac Newton....

So I'm in the "it can't hurt to try" camp, if it only prevents one theft then it's got to be worth it.
 
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I think this a very good idea, but i dont think it will work if im honest, the software side of things is just a simple file that changest the serial and generates a new 4 digit code for the RNS-e (by the way if anyone has lost their RNS-e code let me know and i can send the file) and i dont think when people buy and RNS-e from eBay and are pleased with their new upgrade, they're going to want all the agro of finding out its stolen. I'd love to re-unite someone with a lost item, but i think the honest truth is that people won't want to risk losing the money they have paid.
 
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