Another hybrid conversion thread....

Wow, they are a bit all over the joint..... Especially the huge drop in torque at 3000 RPM, it doesn't recover to the same level until 1500 RPM later....
 
Welly said:
Wow, they are a bit all over the joint..... Especially the huge drop in torque at 3000 RPM, it doesn't recover to the same level until 1500 RPM later....
Click to expand...

I know, very strange, not sure what could cause this, it needs work, but at least its going in the right direction, TBO i would have thought i would feel that drop in torque on the road but i haven't, it pulls strong.
 
Forgot to add this was on a MAHA dyno on 95 octane, us poor farmers over here can't get anything higher in octane:yes:, still the Methanol would have added stability.
 
Last edited:
RobbieRolex said:
No, they have a 4wd and 2wd dyno there, why do you ask.
Click to expand...

Seen similar issues when S3's are ran on a 4wd dyno as the haldex has a spaz... Bill does all his mapping with the haldex fuse pulled in FWD only on these...

<tuffty/>
 
RobbieRolex said:
Forgot to add this was on a MAHA dyno on 95 octane, us poor farmers over here can't get anything higher in octane:yes:, still the Methanol would have added stability.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, thats some weird old delivery... torque would be boost driven normally, does it spool then hold then go again?
Do you have logs of it?

regards
bill
 
No Logs it was just a power run, i have been thinking about this and i would 100% feel this on the road, i think it was wheel spin, if thats possible
 
RobbieRolex said:
No Logs it was just a power run, i have been thinking about this and i would 100% feel this on the road, i think it was wheel spin, if thats possible
Click to expand...

Yeah, seen this on Bill's dyno... warming up the tyres by holding on load and spraying the tyres with a little WD40 helps them stick better as does proper strapping...

Did try strapping off the towing eye but the natural climbing action of the suspension when the engine came on boost would lift the car off the back roller causing a failed run and no coast down...

Now we just strap from the transport holes on the floor pan of the car just behind the front wheel arch... not had an issue since...

<tuffty/>
 
Well, well, well.

Quoted from Bill on the Hybrid comparison thread:


badger5 said:
well.. hmmm.
erm

you know... erm.. when thing dont quite go as expected...
screened maf's descreened maf's flow more.. and all that jazz... and the extra power...

Or Not..

3" TIP fitted to wellys s3
comparison run to last time on dyno. differences being 3 inch tip, some tweaks to add more fuel to go with more airflow, and reverting to screen maf and....

well....
hmm....

was'nt expecting this result...













DynoIT%20-%20S300YES-3inch-tip-screen-maf-final.jpg


:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

badger5 said:
3inch tip airflow, descreen maf
272g/s max logged compared to before 3 inch tip where max was 254g/s, however on this car (non wideband) the apparent airflow and change to afr's made a difference. Clearly more airflow as it ran leaner.. added 5% fuel and it returned to as before, making slightly more power.

New 3 Inch TIP log
Code: 
Sunday	31	October	2010	17:27:07:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													
															
	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				

	31.78	3200	191.7	15.99	138.72	32.08	0	0	0	3	31.49	3040	21	95.3	1880
	32.69	3720	191.7	16.81	145.36	32.98	3	3	0	2.3	32.39	3560	21	82.7	2490
	33.59	4160	191.7	17.63	181.69	33.89	3	3	0	2.3	33.29	3960	20	85.5	2540
	34.49	4640	191.7	18.04	207.72	34.79	3	2.3	0	4.5	34.19	4480	19	82.4	2540
	35.39	5120	191.7	18.04	228	35.69	2.3	2.3	0	4.5	35.09	4920	19	83.1	2540
	36.29	5520	191.7	18.45	247.61	36.59	2.3	5.3	0	3.8	35.99	5360	20	83.9	2540
	37.19	5720	191.7	18.45	257.5	37.49	2.3	5.3	0	3.8	36.89	5680	21	87.1	2520
	38.09	5960	191.7	18.45	258.36	38.39	2.3	5.3	0	3.8	37.79	5880	22	92.2	2520
	38.99	6200	191.7	18.45	259.67	39.29	2.3	4.5	0	3	38.69	6120	24	95.3	2500
	39.89	6480	191.7	18.45	265.94	40.19	2.3	4.5	0	3	39.59	6360	24	95.3	2490
	40.79	6760	191.7	17.22	266.39	41.09	1.5	4.5	0	3	40.49	6640	26	95.3	2470
	41.69	7040	191.7	16.81	270.44	41.99	1.5	3.8	0	2.3	41.39	6960	27	95.3	2460
	42.59	7360	191.7	15.99	272.67	42.89	1.5	3.8	0	2.3	42.29	7280	29	95.3	2420
	43.49	7680	183.5	11.48	266.58	43.79	0	0	0	0	43.19	7560	30	95.3	2430

Previous logs descreened before 3" TIP
Code: 
Saturday	23	October	2010	17:48:48:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
8L0 906 018 N		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME					TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	°C	 %	 mbar

	48.83	1440	82	5.33	23.17	49.13	0	0	0	0	49.43	1640	24	95.3	1100
	49.73	1760	87.2	5.74	28.94	50.03	0	0	0	0	50.33	2040	23	95.3	1190
	50.63	2200	106.8	6.97	45.83	50.93	0	0	0	0	51.23	2440	21	95.3	1370
	51.53	2560	122.6	7.79	62.06	51.84	0	0	0	0	52.14	2800	21	95.3	1670
	52.44	2920	171.4	12.3	102.92	52.73	0	0	0	0	53.04	3240	21	77.6	2370
	53.34	3440	191.7	15.58	141.31	53.64	0	0	0	0	53.93	3680	21	81.6	2500
	54.24	3840	191.7	16.81	154.53	54.53	0	0	0	3	54.84	4120	20	83.5	2510
	55.14	4280	191.7	16.81	179.42	55.44	3	0	0	3	55.74	4560	21	82.7	2530
	56.04	4720	191.7	17.22	198.17	56.34	3	0	0	3	56.64	5000	21	83.9	2520
	56.94	5160	191.7	17.63	222.33	57.24	2.3	0	0	2.3	57.54	5440	21	85.5	2500
	57.84	5520	191.7	18.04	236.33	58.14	2.3	0	0	2.3	58.44	5760	23	89.4	2450
	58.74	5840	191.7	17.22	243.58	59.04	2.3	0	0	2.3	59.34	6040	24	95.3	2430
	59.64	6080	191.7	16.81	246.5	59.94	1.5	0	0	1.5	60.24	6240	25	95.3	2420
	60.54	6320	191.7	16.81	247.31	60.84	1.5	0	0	1.5	61.14	6480	27	95.3	2400
	61.44	6560	191.7	16.4	251.61	61.74	1.5	0	0	1.5	62.04	6760	28	95.3	2360
	62.34	6840	191.7	15.58	253.64	62.64	1.5	0	0	0.8	62.94	7040	30	95.3	2340
	63.24	7160	186.5	14.76	254.83	63.54	0.8	0	0	0.8	63.84	7360	31	95.3	2300
	64.14	7480	178.2	13.94	252.33	64.44	0.8	0	0	0.8	64.73	7240	32	0	1750

3inch tip and screened maf
3inch tip and screened maf
Code: 
31	October	2010	17:49:37:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.1	Data version: 20100831									
	1.8L R4/5VT     G   0002													

Group A:	'002				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'118			
	RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
TIME					TIME					TIME				
STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	°C	 %	 mbar

	30.89	1480	32.3	2.46	9.14	31.19	0	0	0	0	30.59	1520	26	0	1010
	31.79	1480	78.2	5.33	23.08	32.09	0	0	0	0	31.49	1440	26	95.3	1000
	32.69	1600	84.2	5.33	25.92	32.99	0	0	0	0	32.39	1480	24	95.3	1060
	33.59	2000	92.5	6.15	37.08	33.89	0	0	0	0	33.29	1880	23	95.3	1130
	34.49	2360	109.8	6.97	50.78	34.8	0	0	0	0	34.2	2240	21	95.3	1270
	35.39	2760	134.6	9.43	74.44	35.69	0	0	0	0	35.09	2640	21	95.3	1470
	36.29	3200	191.7	15.99	139.39	36.58	3	0	3	3	35.99	3040	21	95.3	1910
	37.18	3680	191.7	16.81	144.22	37.49	3	0	3	5.3	36.89	3520	21	82.7	2490
	38.09	4120	191.7	17.63	169.94	38.39	2.3	0	2.3	5.3	37.78	3960	20	83.9	2540
	38.99	4640	191.7	18.04	199.56	39.29	2.3	0	2.3	4.5	38.69	4480	20	82.4	2540
	39.89	5120	191.7	18.04	225.11	40.19	2.3	0	2.3	4.5	39.59	4960	20	83.5	2540
	40.79	5520	191.7	18.86	238.06	41.09	2.3	0	1.5	4.5	40.49	5400	21	84.7	2530
	41.69	5760	191.7	18.45	244.83	41.99	1.5	0	1.5	3.8	41.39	5680	21	87.8	2510
	42.59	5960	191.7	18.04	247.31	42.89	1.5	0	1.5	3.8	42.29	5920	23	93.3	2490
	43.49	6200	191.7	17.63	251.94	43.79	1.5	0	1.5	3.8	43.19	6120	24	95.3	2470
	44.39	6480	191.7	17.63	253.22	44.69	1.5	0	1.5	3	44.09	6400	25	95.3	2480
	45.29	6760	191.7	16.81	255.36	45.59	1.5	0	1.5	3	44.99	6680	27	95.3	2430
	46.19	7040	191.7	15.99	258.58	46.49	0.8	0	0.8	3	45.89	6960	27	94.9	2420
	47.09	7360	185.7	15.17	260.78	47.39	0.8	0	0.8	2.3	46.79	7240	29	95.3	2400
	47.99	6960	12.8	1.23	0	48.3	0	0	0	0	47.69	7640	30	0	2500


rule of thumb calc applied.. airflow divide 0.8 = power
we get 260g/s = 326bhp

pretty damned closed to dyno all things considered

:D
Click to expand...
 
Ummmm, feels quick....

Different though. It spools much more like a big turbo now, and delivers it's power much more like one as well.

It's not at full spool until around about 3.5K RPM+ but once there it just pulls and pulls and pulls. Torque delivery now is much more pronounced than it was before, but this is due to the boost holding on better.

It feels like a BT car to be honest....
 
not bad then, big turbo feel for less pounds and less fabrication. the later power delivery must be made up by the higher rev limit, the go lasts longer if you know what i mean
 
The area under the graph looks very good now dude. I want to see this on a 1/4 mile to see what time and terminal speed you can get.

Nathan
 
S3 Nattie said:
The area under the graph looks very good now dude. I want to see this on a 1/4 mile to see what time and terminal speed you can get.
Click to expand...

Me too.....

s3dave said:
is it laggy lower end then...
Click to expand...

Yes it is dude, quite noticeable under normal driving. Not a bad thing as the go further up more than makes up for it, and it means MPG should be better under normal driving.
 
even if it is a little laggy lower down, this should be good for day to day driving surely, and when on track or whatever, shouldnt be hard to keep it where the power is.
 
superkarl said:
even if it is a little laggy lower down, this should be good for day to day driving surely, and when on track or whatever, shouldnt be hard to keep it where the power is.
Click to expand...

No, the power isn't hard to find.

My mate tried racing me up one of the 2 mile straights on the way back from Bill's. Wish I had a camera....
 
I would have thought so be but thats probably because theres a bigger/consistent volume for the air now but once the turbo on boost it getting a nice amount of consistent airflow so can hold the boost longer and higher up.

Nathan
 
Thats some cracking gains Welly, Bills been working his magic

I finally know which route to go now, IHI or Hybrid, Hybrid it is!

Cheers for doing the experimenting so we can all benefit!
 
i can see a hybrid battle at pod coming on hehe all looking good welly i take it youll be at Bills for the RR day
 
Wow! nice work, this has convinced me beyond doubt. Expect to see a lot of me Bill :thumbsup:
 
Now its worth mentioning this prototype was done for a car which had open cone induction kit.
Its going to be tight on an OE airbox, but not having tried that I cant confirm how well it will fit..
wellys S3 bung it in to check install below to show you what I mean:

3inch-tip-fitted-1.jpg

3inch-tip-fitted-2.jpg


Comparison to an already good flowing silicon TIP which was what welly was running before swapping to the 3 inch jobbie
3inch-tip-vs-silicon-tip-1.jpg

3inch-tip-vs-silicon-tip-2.jpg

3inch-tip-vs-silicon-tip-3.jpg


those who want them: info thread here with prices> SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum - View Single Post - full 76mm/3" k04 LCR/S3/TT TIP gauging interest..

If folks let me know on this please so I can plan 1st production batch.

:thumbsup:
 
Yes Diddly yes yes!

I'm in! AMK S3.
 
As mentioned on FB, great results. All if not most of the hats off to Bill! :superman:
 
JD09 said:
As mentioned on FB, great results. All if not most of the hats off to Bill! :superman:
Click to expand...

LOL, gotta love the Facebook dude! :p.... Yeah, hats off to Bill I agree, he is, in fact, a little like Batman. I may start calling him Bruce Wayne.
 
Welly said:
LOL, gotta love the Facebook dude! :p.... Yeah, hats off to Bill I agree, he is, in fact, a little like Batman. I may start calling him Bruce Wayne.
Click to expand...
OMG!

oh dear oh dear...


fat man I could believe..... I do like my chinese and indian food

:p
 
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