Another hybrid conversion thread....

Welly, im going to throw another spanner into the works lol, with good intentions though. Have you thought about maybe heat coating your charge pipe. I have seen it done on a few 8P S3's with gold (I no thats going a bit far) but could use some normal heat wrap and see what it does for your intake temps.

Nathan
 
S3 Nattie said:
I have seen it done on a few 8P S3's with gold (I no thats going a bit far)
Click to expand...

Gold? :faint:

Thats not a bad shout, and certainly an easy one to test. Would be a case of a logging runs on the same day under the same driving conditions - and fitting the heat wrap in between to make it a fair test.
 
Ye, gold is a very good heat reflector but very expensive. I have seen silver heat reflective tape but it looks like tin foil. I think I might give it a go as its only cheap ish and should be easy to test and get a good idea if it works.

Nathan
 
Ye, but I might get blue to match my silicone hoses lol. I think it would be good for any S3 FMIC or SMIC setup to try and get a few more degrees of colder air into the engine, something to think about.

Nathan
 
S3 Nattie said:
****** hell, from suggesting an opinion too im frustrating to you and other (care to say who else im frustrating too) WTF.

Wont bothering reply to this thread anymore if thats the case. Sorry Welly to the way your thread has gone dude.

Nathan
Click to expand...
whatever
 
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s3dave said:
Sorry but i disagree, forums area place to educate and help people, with like minded people.
I have learnt alot on here, and have helped many too...
Nathan is learning as we all are and nobody knows everything...
It gets very snobby/clicky on here sometimes....
just my 2 pence worth....:yes:
Click to expand...
I dont think so:
not snobby, not clicky, but some peeps just continually asking stupid stuff just grinds & wastes some folks time, who do try to help, when answers are offered to then be asked yet more stupid questions... clearly not having listened.
Some, it seems cannot be helped, and for them, I am more than happy to ignore from now on. Makes it easier for me.
 
S3 Nattie said:
Welly, im going to throw another spanner into the works lol, with good intentions though. Have you thought about maybe heat coating your charge pipe. I have seen it done on a few 8P S3's with gold (I no thats going a bit far) but could use some normal heat wrap and see what it does for your intake temps.
Nathan
Click to expand...

I'm gonna throw another spanner in the works - have you considered ceramic coating the exhaust manifold Welly? No doubt it would help keep under bonnet temps down but I don't know if the there is a flip side to it (heat insulation / retention causing manifold cracks possibly or would it be the other way around and protect from cracking?)

Seeing as you are the nominated forum guinea pig (ok, so nobody nominated but you get the idea) maybe this could be your next move (along with 24 carat gold heat wrap on the charge pipe).:yellowrs4:
 
Imteyaz said:
I'm gonna throw another spanner in the works - have you considered ceramic coating the exhaust manifold Welly? No doubt it would help keep under bonnet temps down but I don't know if the there is a flip side to it (heat insulation / retention causing manifold cracks possibly or would it be the other way around and protect from cracking?)

Seeing as you are the nominated forum guinea pig (ok, so nobody nominated but you get the idea) maybe this could be your next move (along with 24 carat gold heat wrap on the charge pipe).:yellowrs4:
Click to expand...

I think welly should open up a paypal account so folks can contribute to his "development" on your behalves
 
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badger5 said:
remembering your cone is open to the engine bay, do you believe this will add anything?
cos I dont
Click to expand...

Fair point, as it's sucking warm air in anyway. Plus heat will naturally conduct up the piping anyway, which the tape won't help.
 
Imteyaz said:
I'm gonna throw another spanner in the works - have you considered ceramic coating the exhaust manifold Welly? No doubt it would help keep under bonnet temps down but I don't know if the there is a flip side to it (heat insulation / retention causing manifold cracks possibly or would it be the other way around and protect from cracking?)

Seeing as you are the nominated forum guinea pig (ok, so nobody nominated but you get the idea) maybe this could be your next move (along with 24 carat gold heat wrap on the charge pipe).:yellowrs4:
Click to expand...

Whilst I would love to try this, ceramic coating is not cheap. Also, the head would have to come back off for this to be an option - so it won't be happening any time soon to be fair.

The reason I say this is I still have all the cuts on my hands from trying to remove the manifold with the head in situ. I said it immediately after, I would NEVER attempt to do that again.

The time it took to not get the manifold off was the same amount of time I got the head off and back on again in.
 
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badger5 said:
I think welly should open up a paypal account so folks can contrinute to his "development" on your behalves
Click to expand...

LOL. I may set up my own registered charity.... You'll see me outside Tesco on a Saturday morning with a collecting can....
 
i know id be very interested in buying an adapter off you bill if you plan to mass produce, im sure many others will too!

the gold charge pipe idea..... tempting! that would be real engine bling lol.
oh and im a student too and dont go the pub and drink very rarely. were not all stereotypical lol.
 
Hehe, penny for the little yellow car..... nice bit of turning bill.
 
off topic but does anyone use methanol mix on their s3's seems popular on scoobies...
 
badger5 said:
I dont think so:
not snobby, not clicky, but some peeps just continually asking stupid stuff just grinds & wastes some folks time, who do try to help, when answers are offered to then be asked yet more stupid questions... clearly not having listened.
Some, it seems cannot be helped, and for them, I am more than happy to ignore from now on. Makes it easier for me.
Click to expand...
Ok Bill, your prerogative....
Congrats on the new development, are you hoping for quicker spool, or more bhp/torque? or both, what gains have the seat guys had?
 
audi upgrades
Lemon S3 said:
Bill...regarding the 3" tip again, could you not of used 2 90degree bends of ally with silicone joiners?
Click to expand...

Alloy bends aren't tight enough really... 90 deg silicon is tighter than alloy... needs to be tight at the turbo from what I have seen...

<tuffty/>
 
jimes said:
off topic but does anyone use methanol mix on their s3's seems popular on scoobies...
Click to expand...
Off topic yes, i am using 49/51 methanol/water mix on my setup, i have pratically the same setup as Welly just having some issues with tuning the car to its potential.

EGT's are kept in check with minimal knock.I would recommend it.

Back to the real topic now.
 
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RobbieRolex said:
Off topic yes, i am using 49/51 methanol/water mix on my setup, i have pratically the same setup as Welly just having some issues with tuning the car to its potential.

EGT's are kept in check with minimal knock.I would recommend it.

Back to the real topic now.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's off topic at all. WMI is a very good thing to use with these setups, solely because they get very very hot, very very quickly.

It's something I plan to look at in the future, however for the time being, mine isn't too bad heat wise, and is reasonably consistant.
 
****** ****** it.

Driving to work this morning, I can hear the familliar sound of a boost leak....

And there was one. lol

The turbo to charge pipe hose (the red one) has got a whacking great split in it sadly. It has looked a bit ropey for a while and the charge pipe being on and off like a tart's knickers lately hasn't helped matters.

Just phoned Forge, am picking one up shortly which is made of a combination of flourosilicone compound and is nomex reinforced.

This is the one:

Forge Motorsport | Alloy Fabrication

Cheap though, it isn't.
 
Shame it only comes in red...
 
s3dave said:
Ok Bill, your prerogative....
Congrats on the new development, are you hoping for quicker spool, or more bhp/torque? or both, what gains have the seat guys had?
Click to expand...

on others, they gained airflow across the board, spool was no worse but I dont know if it was better..
one lcr hybrid with its diy 3" tip which inspired me to make one ran over 300bhp from 20psi boost, better than any other hybrid I have yet seen.. power per psi it was excellent, and on stock exhaust manifold also, and without wmi or any "extras" aside from fmic, downpipe etc

We will have to see on wellys, as I have the most dyno's and logs on his car to show what does and does'nt work.. We should see gains. We will have to see.
 
Lemon S3 said:
Bill...regarding the 3" tip again, could you not of used 2 90degree bends of ally with silicone joiners?
Click to expand...

yes.. thats one of the options I am contemplating.. a 3" joiner with elements bristling out of it for the required connections and onto another 90 elbow.
I am making these connection weldments into the straight portion of the 90 alloy bend, so I can if req'd cut off the bend down to the straight section and convert it to the 2 x 90 silicon bends if required..
Not sure yet whats the best package..
 
RobbieRolex said:
Off topic yes, i am using 49/51 methanol/water mix on my setup, i have pratically the same setup as Welly just having some issues with tuning the car to its potential.

EGT's are kept in check with minimal knock.I would recommend it.

Back to the real topic now.
Click to expand...
totally agree - wmi rocks!
uber consistent runs whenon the dyno with it... and more timing can be had.. great stuff.
 
Is this 3" adaptor mainly only for hybrid setups as stage 1 or 2 dont really suffer from cavity, or could it be installed on a stage 1 or 2 S3 and see gains or is it pointless unless your experiencing cavity issues.

I have a problem with my red turbo hose welly, mine not staying on thats my problem.

Nathan
 
Bill/Welly, forgive me here!

WMI is to keep temps down, yes?

So say you have two hybridT engines, Welly's running the 304 manifold and A.N.Other with a standard manifold... Would there be less need for Welly's to run WMI, due to the better design of the 304 manifold? Or are the two not linked?
 
Gains on std K04 have been reported. combined with descreened maf on the ones I have heard about.
more info on SCN forum
 
audi upgrades
JD09 said:
Bill/Welly, forgive me here!

WMI is to keep temps down, yes?

So say you have two hybridT engines, Welly's running the 304 manifold and A.N.Other with a standard manifold... Would there be less need for Welly's to run WMI, due to the better design of the 304 manifold? Or are the two not linked?
Click to expand...

WMI is cooling and or additional octane.. depending on what % water meth you use.
most folks I see are running 50/50 mix, which is both cooling intake change temps and adding 115octane methanol, which in itself allows more timing to be employed. If you use low or no % meth then you will benefit from from intake aircharge cooling, but not as much in cooling terms and without the meth the ign timing would not likely be able to be advanced.

WMI k04 cars run very consistently, where their non wmi cousins get hot very quickly.

as an example, on the wmi car's I have run, charge temps rarely exceed mid 20'c regardless of ambient temp and can allow additional timing to be dialed in.. the most I have seen (on my own ibiza) was 12 degrees additional timing), most commonly 6-8 degrees on others I have done. every 3-4 degree's of timing can yield ~10bhp from what I have seen,

sample dyno plot of 3 hybrids for info. only 1 of these being wmi enhanced.
middle one bk04hrf is the chemically enhanced one - orange line
DynoIT%20-%20willy-jonp-welly-2.jpg

willy-jonp-welly-hybrids-1.jpg


regards
bill
 
Edited as I have just seen Bill's reply....

The 3" adaptor fits a std K04 (as well as the hybrids) so the TIP could be used for any K04 turbo'd S3 at any stage of tune... the initial tests will be done on Welly's car and of course the results of that will be relative to that setup...

Would imagine a test of the TIP on a stage 1 or 2 S3 is in order to be able to say what the real world benefits would be...

Stage 1 and 2 levels of tune can and do suffer from cavitation though... mine did on a stage 1 Custom Code map and I had a silicone TIP....

<tuffty/>
 
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Thanks Bill, quite a sizeable difference on those graphs with WMI... notes made!

So on a standard car, this could also have an effect, but for the cost, it's presumably better to go with the cake mixture (hybrid, bigger turbo, DP, TBE, FMIC and mapping) before adding the cherry, as it were?
 
no I think the 3" TIP would be as much relevant for remapped k04 cars as it would for hybrids.. Same rational as people change from stock TIP's to the silicon ones.. 3" one is the next step or first step depending on what you have or have'nt done.
 
On the cooling front, would there be any benefit in pluming in some washer jets to spray onto the intercooler, similar to the setup found on the P1 scooby? Would think this would be a cheap mod if you could t off the existing screen wash system.
 
badger5 said:
yes.. its done on 225 LCR's and other vag's I work on.. Very effective!
talkingwater meth injection
Click to expand...

Here is my WMI install on and LCR for the interested parties, pages 8 and 9 with the results.Its surprisingly easy to do and you get good results form the amount of cash you have to spend, Bill is selling this kit and i personally recommend it, We added a lot of advance timing on the top end once this was setup and working correctly.

LCR W.I.P UPD 13/10/10 WMI, Hybrid setup tuned, result, Not good! - Page 8 - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum

And just to add to Bill info that wasn't mentioned, before i would heat soak bad, stop/go traffic in the summer months the car was just a big heat sponge, while my FMIC was working it a$$ off once temps got out of control under the hood it found it very hard to recover unless i got on a motorway and did 120kph for a few miles, this where i most enjoy WMI, heat soak recovery is almost instand.
 
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mk1chopper said:
On the cooling front, would there be any benefit in pluming in some washer jets to spray onto the intercooler, similar to the setup found on the P1 scooby? Would think this would be a cheap mod if you could t off the existing screen wash system.
Click to expand...

It does work, as we spray water onto coolers on the dyno to help them cool down..
SHC of water is somethign like x4 of air so it does help heat exchange. WMI is far more effective for cooling however
 
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