s3 vs escort cosworth

um we'll disagree there as it depends what you want.... if you want to get the most out of the car 365 days a year 2wd is pointless

172/182 i don't think they will last long enough to be iconic (like any Renault, more specifically the Renault 5 turbo)

Focus RS isnt what i would class as iconic, more of a crap attempt of replicating the Cosworth story
 
just to make it worse:

key-west-fishing.jpg


a far better car than all:

images



:D
 
not the new one animal as its not a skyline in my eyes and its standard price is £60k plus so wouldnt be fair. however r33 or r34 both the dogs danglies!

2.6l twin turbo
0-60 5secs
155mph (capped)
276bhp

tunability is second to none!
 
i know i always used to love these as a kid..... remmeber the 1000bhp gold one out of max power haha (same supra)..... damned shame they are so ugly :(
 
yeh i had a poster of that on my wall! :blush:

there was a blue one with graphics all over it from USA which had 1300+ bhp :w00t:
 
The clio 182 trophey will be iconic just like the williams clio is. I dont think the Escort RST is a classic with all petrol heads, its a classic with the Ford fan boys, where as the Escort RS Cosworth is a classic to most people. I would have a SWB Audi quattro S1 over an escort cosworth, in fact I think id have an audi S2 coupe over the cosworth, and I woulds have a lancia delta integrale evo 3 over both the audi's.

I dont think the mk1 RS focus will go down as a cult classic, the mk2 probably will. Audi do still produce cars that will obtain cult classic status, id say the B5 RS4 is already classed as a future classic.
 
1animal1 said:
can someone name me a hot hatch of today that will be a legend
Click to expand...

When the S3 is 25yrs old. It will not only be worthless but no-one will really look back and remember it. (im just saying)

Hamster said in this video at 3:40min in.....excatly what i said in the begining. It explains exatly why guys on here in there 30`s 40`s have still got the string love towards RS Fords. This thread can run and run. Im done talking about it as there will always be 2 sides and different of opinions. Some guys love the Audi and Some love the Ford as well as owning a Audi. :)

 
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sorry doood but there would be no way to predict what was going to happen to the RS back in the day, any quotes you have are meaningless although easier to gauge back then due to the MUCH smaller market....same goes for predicting the future of the S3, there is simply no way you can tell as it is gauged on so many different factors...unless you actually have a crystal ball - do you?

If we're having this debate though you can then open it up to levels of greatness, then you have to question where the S3 stands as i can tell you one thing for certain, it aint no Focus (it will always be far classier)

Clio....i think the williams is a classic because it brought together Reanult and an F1 team successfully.... thats where the similarities with the 172/182 ends, bear in mind the much higher mass production figures of the latter and your in a different catagory regards 'classic' status
 
But the 182 trophey is a limited run model wth bespoke suspension which by all reviews was regarded as the best hot hatch in terms of driving produced when it was released, just like the williams was praised for being one of the best handling cars when its was released. The clio williams has nothing to do with F1 which is the odd thing. Williams had no input in building it they just lent there name to it, it was built for rally, and developed by the renault sport division. The new clio 200 is seen as the current best hot hatch by a lot of people as it combines all the qualitys that defined a hot hatch back in the late 70's early 80s when hot hatchs first appeared.
 
I have owned a CLio 197 my personel opinion is they are a very poor car! They are very rev happy but the quality is crap, give me my S3 any day of the week.
 
who are you trying to kid? 172 and 182 both moved the hot hatch game on in a leap and a bound. wont last? 205gti, clio williams, 5gtt all not iconic enough?

focus rs. slate it as much as you like, its going to be iconic and if you look beyond the brand snobery for 5 seconds that car is another that has moved the game right on all over again.

what was the s3 good at? it gave a fair bit of bhp and 4wd to people who saw themselves as too middle class to be seen driving a ford or a renault but wanted to appear to be seeing driving something a bit racey. its not a drivers car, the 4wd and lack of power put paid to that, so it wont be an icon for that reason. it wont be an icon for being posh because at 10 years old an audi just isnt posh, which leaves the audi with its "competant" trump card.

i hate to sound like im slating it (remember im well and truly from the vag camp!) but it might be iconic for being competent, like a labrador or something. to make it worse theyre falling into chav hands like the m3 did years ago so you get some right tools driving them and putting stupid looking headlights and wheels on them.

in fact, maybe in 5 -10 years after the chav brigade have had their way with them, there will be fewer left. they could be seen as an important part of audis history then?

1animal1 said:
um we'll disagree there as it depends what you want.... if you want to get the most out of the car 365 days a year 2wd is pointless

172/182 i don't think they will last long enough to be iconic (like any Renault, more specifically the Renault 5 turbo)

Focus RS isnt what i would class as iconic, more of a crap attempt of replicating the Cosworth story
Click to expand...
 
how did they move hot hatches on, the 172/182...the only thing that they are good at is cornering....they are made of chocolate, slow in comparison to ours and have the interior made out of cereal box's.....tell me again why they are so good?

haha i have to agree with the chav statement, theres a yellow one near me - must remind myself to buy a baseball cap. but then that isnt a gauge as the Renaults fall into chav hands after year one when they lose 90% of their value.....

i think another point we're missing here is 'what exactly is iconic' and what will evolve to be..... just to throw sumat else in the mix :)

The S3 has a trump card in that it isnt just an A3 with a bodykit...its unique within the brand and that will always stand it in good stead for its future. It doesnt have to be a drivers car to be iconic either, thats a personal choice and not on my personal tick list (maybe why im so 'for' the S3)as you shouldnt be driving like your in a track car on the public roads (from a cornering perspective). I didnt actually say posh and i fully agree with what your saying here, but i think you've missed the point - as the car started its life out aimed at the middle classes, it therefore has the build quality to match which is completely solid when compared to your focus's/Astra's etc etc, that what wil help it

and for reference, my personal favourite from my era is the Integrale Evo, absolutely love that car, then the RS200 followed extremely closely by the S1 ;)
 
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I think my easiest way to summarise this is:
I drove a Series 2 RS Turbo at back in '98, which was a great fun little car, went horribly wrong when you put too much power through it though.
So I got my beloved '89 RWD Sapphire Cosworth a couple of years later, and drove it for 5 years, from standard spec up to around 320bhp.
Track days galore, everything went wrong - at least five times, including three engines - it left me with enough debt to have bought a house, and there's no way on earth I would ever have missed the experience.
I bought as S3 three years ago, blew up two engines (good at this game), left it in storage and I've just come back to a nicely running car that I like quite a lot.

Mine is a '99 car, with an uprated turbo and a re-map, is all, and it might vaguely have kept with my standard Cosworth. Any more power than standard and you can forget it.
And the stage 1 Escort Cosworth I used to drive around Donnington would have left my S3, even as heavy as that car was.

I was 20 when I got a Cosworth. I was 30 when I got an S3. Go figure.

Love them both, one was for thrills, one was for oh-my-god-I-can't-be-*****-with-fixing-my-car-again-this-weekend-fun!
 
ferrari F40.

cmon lets stop this and start w new thread

S3 VS Discovery 2

classic or not... iconic or not... we will see in 20 years but if you like your S3 keep it and if you dont sell it and buy something else
i love comparing cars but to be realistic you have to stay in the same era
now u got more technology but the car are made cheaper and you got emission restrictions and many other stuff like safety rules that can result in making the car heavier.
 
Cant believe how many slate audis on here......it does seem odd that you are displaying them in signatures and slate them to f*ck
did some forget what you bought with your hard earned?????
 
finesse said:
nicely put!

S3 requires parts weekly though
Click to expand...

I think there are the normal things to change and then once thats done your home free....touch wood ive not replaced much on mine lately and i give it enough abuse :)

s3dave said:
Cant believe how many slate audis on here......it does seem odd that you are displaying them in signatures and slate them to f*ck
did some forget what you bought with your hard earned?????
Click to expand...

I totally agree...... what some people forget is that theres always going to be a better this that or the other, what they fail to see is the amount of things that are worse off - a very blinkered approach
 
1animal1 said:
how did they move hot hatches on, the 172/182...the only thing that they are good at is cornering....they are made of chocolate, slow in comparison to ours and have the interior made out of cereal box's.....tell me again why they are so good?

haha i have to agree with the chav statement, theres a yellow one near me - must remind myself to buy a baseball cap. but then that isnt a gauge as the Renaults fall into chav hands after year one when they lose 90% of their value.....

i think another point we're missing here is 'what exactly is iconic' and what will evolve to be..... just to throw sumat else in the mix :)

The S3 has a trump card in that it isnt just an A3 with a bodykit...its unique within the brand and that will always stand it in good stead for its future. It doesnt have to be a drivers car to be iconic either, thats a personal choice and not on my personal tick list (maybe why im so 'for' the S3)as you shouldnt be driving like your in a track car on the public roads (from a cornering perspective). I didnt actually say posh and i fully agree with what your saying here, but i think you've missed the point - as the car started its life out aimed at the middle classes, it therefore has the build quality to match which is completely solid when compared to your focus's/Astra's etc etc, that what wil help it

and for reference, my personal favourite from my era is the Integrale Evo, absolutely love that car, then the RS200 followed extremely closely by the S1 ;)
Click to expand...

A standard S3 is quicker in a straight line than the 172/182 so you'll beat it in a traffic light sprint, but in real world driving conditions you'll struggle to lose the clio in a standard S3. What did the clio do, it provided a hot hatch for most people, compare the cost of a new S3 back in the day against the cost of a clio, the clio could be brought for 12k or less brand new where as the S3 was 24k+ iirc. so for half the price you got a car that was quick with great handling, cheaper to run than an S3, cheaper to insure. Build quality is not on par with the audi, but my sister has had a 182 from new, and had no major faults, in fact the only fault I know of is the centre air vent slats have broken, where my S3 has snapped 3 springs, needed new arb, has had a new xenon sensor, new alarm siren, has rust on the roof rails, has had a new stereo due to volume control, a new ingnition barrel, a new header tank, thermostat, and has a leak in the aircon system. The clio was half the price of the S3 its not going to have the same quality of materials. the 2.0 16v lump in the renault is a very strong engine too, the car also had its own race series.
 
i like what your saying but the clio doesnt offer anything thats unique..... cost is not enough to promote it to legendary status, infact that works against it in a roundabout way due to there being more of them! id love to compare a ten year old clio with yours and see what parts need replacing :)
 
1animal1 said:
promote it to legendary status
Click to expand...

Hardly Legendary, More like shed of the week!
I seem to remember it being very poor build quality and the roof lining was cheaply made, Inside was mostly cheap creaking plastic and difficult to work on under the bonnet. Reminded me of a saxo. Both crap French cars.

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=162&i=18365

autotrader.co.uk for a measly £999
1995 RENAULT CLIO 2.0 Williams Two 3dr Hatchback Special Eds. Manual, 115,000 miles, Blue. Mot, No Tax, FSH, Rare limited edition, Usual Williams spec, Phone for Details. £999.’

My Wheels and alarm cost more than that shed. :)
 
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that actually looks more comfortable than the clio - nothing worse than a velvet armchair seat :)
 
finesse said:
nicely put!

S3 requires parts weekly though
Click to expand...

Don't tell me that!

I've only covered about 800 miles in the last 3 years in mine, and now it's back up and running I was hoping the 2 dead engines plus all related parts, and mashed Haldrex controller were aberrations...
 
The S3 i own has been the biggest money pit ive ever owned.
Everybody has their own reason for owning their cars. Some some form and some function.
But the reasons to slate an all time great like the cosworth is plain silly.
Recent "hot hatch" cars that will be iconic?
New focus RS
Renault Megane R26r or whatever its called.
Both these cars are designed to perform and make for a great overall driving experience.
The 8L S3 is a good all rounder, Not great but good.
 
Ooooooh nooooes. Made some spelling mistakes in my last post. I hang my head in shame.

Seriously though Ford cars of old really arent that good. They are icons because of their continued following. Cars are worth however much your willing to pay for them and ford fan boys are willing to mortgage their houses for "classic" fords. Go them...I know I wouldnt.

Mk1 Golf GTI's arent selling for 20....40k but they simply dont have the fanatical following of Fords...Does this mean its a **** car?
 
not bein funny Paul but you have gone hybrid and failed spectacularly in that you still have a car that is falling far short of its figures....hardly an example of your average S3.... i bet Paul's spent less on his(not quite) :) I personally have recently spent on tyres, before that i cant remember what i bought, its a myth that the S3 is THAT expensive to run once you have the majority of things nailed - compare that to a ten year old Ford

You know we were quoting excellent marketting?.... well your comment sums that up entirely, we cant slate Cosworth because its an 'all time great'

New Focus RS is hardly groundbreaking, it offers nothing other than the diff and a big wing/design spectacle.....the Cosworths USP was the 'best by far' use of a turbo on a mainstream car.

And nobody has said the S3 will be great, but if you look at the reasons cars end up great then it has one of the best blueprints due to its uniqueness when compared to its model...the A3....tbh i dont think any hot hatchs of today will make an icon out of itself like the Cosworths did purely because of the amount of choice, there is no one single option/pref for anybody unlike back in the day
 
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MintyS3 said:
Ooooooh nooooes. Made some spelling mistakes in my last post. I hang my head in shame.

Seriously though Ford cars of old really arent that good. They are icons because of their continued following. Cars are worth however much your willing to pay for them and ford fan boys are willing to mortgage their houses for "classic" fords. Go them...I know I wouldnt.

Mk1 Golf GTI's arent selling for 20....40k but they simply dont have the fanatical following of Fords...Does this mean its a **** car?
Click to expand...

I hope the spelling pun was not for me or in responce to what ive said... I can not spell for toffee. It has no real bearing on the conversation.
 
audi upgrades
S3 Paul said:
I hope the spelling pun was not for me or in responce to what ive said... I can not spell for toffee. It has no real bearing on the conversation.
Click to expand...

Your correct that it has no bearing. Was aimed at one of the ford fan boys who criticised my spelling, obviously after he took offence to my opinion.
 
1animal1 said:
not bein funny Paul but you have gone hybrid and failed spectacularly in that you still have a car that is falling far short of its figures....hardly an example of your average S3.... i bet Paul's spent less on his(not quite) :) I personally have recently spent on tyres, before that i cant remember what i bought, its a myth that the S3 is THAT expensive to run once you have the majority of things nailed - compare that to a ten year old Ford

You know we were quoting excellent marketting?.... well your comment sums that up entirely, we cant slate Cosworth because its an 'all time great'

New Focus RS is hardly groundbreaking, it offers nothing other than the diff and a big wing/design spectacle.....the Cosworths USP was the 'best by far' use of a turbo on a mainstream car.

And nobody has said the S3 will be great, but if you look at the reasons cars end up great then it has one of the best blueprints due to its uniqueness when compared to its model...the A3....tbh i dont think any hot hatchs of today will make an icon out of itself like the Cosworths did purely because of the amount of choice, there is no one single option/pref for anybody unlike back in the day
Click to expand...

I agree with your comments regard hot hatchs of today not becoming icons like past cars e.g. the cosworth. but you could identify which cars will be remembered for being the best of there time. When you look at what the S3 was up against when it was released it was probably one of the top in its class at the time.
 
1animal1 said:
not bein funny Paul but you have gone hybrid and failed spectacularly in that you still have a car that is falling far short of its figures....hardly an example of your average S3.... i bet Paul's spent less on his(not quite) :) I personally have recently spent on tyres, before that i cant remember what i bought, its a myth that the S3 is THAT expensive to run once you have the majority of things nailed - compare that to a ten year old Ford

You know we were quoting excellent marketting?.... well your comment sums that up entirely, we cant slate Cosworth because its an 'all time great'

New Focus RS is hardly groundbreaking, it offers nothing other than the diff and a big wing/design spectacle.....the Cosworths USP was the 'best by far' use of a turbo on a mainstream car.

And nobody has said the S3 will be great, but if you look at the reasons cars end up great then it has one of the best blueprints due to its uniqueness when compared to its model...the A3....tbh i dont think any hot hatchs of today will make an icon out of itself like the Cosworths did purely because of the amount of choice, there is no one single option/pref for anybody unlike back in the day
Click to expand...


Im avoiding aiming my arguement at any one person but ... you seem intent on aiming yours at me and my car...
Just so you know, My car runs around 300bhp now. So what figure has it fallen short of?
The focus RS IS a great car. Reviews and reports from people slightly more important in the car world have said this.
Thats a fact,
Once you have a majority of things nailed... this alone will break the bank for alot of people.

The mk1 golf GTI is an icon and a classic,
Its where the "hot hatch" thing started for the major part of the world.
BUT have you driven one?
not one thats had £15k spent on it... i mean one how it was back then?
You will ( if you judge it by todays standards) be left wondering what all the fuss was about.
Point is... they are cars built back then for the market back then.
 
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