CR K04 Stage 4 Hybrid, comparison to k04

well didnt really do to much on the car today washed it first thing this morning then had to go do some shopping so killed the chance to do the ducting but did get under the car and sort the exhaust rattle out so am over the moon about that just had to rotace the center pipe a bit to stop it knocking. So the list is getting smaller. Have ordered my Air filter off Bill and i like Paul's (tufftybloke's) idea of keeping the cover for the airbox but having a induction kit there so will start having a play with that this week some time
 
Last edited:
Latest update is its ready! going down tomorrow to Bills may even be cheaky and ask him to change the aircon compressor while its there as its shot it
 
Speedy Steve said:
Latest update is its ready! going down tomorrow to Bills may even be cheaky and ask him to change the aircon compressor while its there as its shot it
Click to expand...

What time you coming mate? I will be there from about 9:30am ish to 1:00pm ish working on my car....

<tuffty/>
 
Plan is to get there for 12 mate. dude getting 4" ducting down to the bumper is a nightmare
 
Ok guys time to place your bets on the dyno lottery what will we get from this turbo? Bills plan is to start with the stock injectors but has some 440's ready along with a forge UNOS
 
i thought you were doing it tonight? haha slacker.

Only joking mate cant wait to find out what you get.
 
Very good.

I reckon 299.99bhp and same torque :).
 
Im feeling Tufty's answer. I think we'd all hope for that atleast.
 
well, not finished, but made some progress..
high airflows, >250g/s consistently, but these are not equating to the g/s x 1.2 factor = bhp


i have it running at 22-23psi boost as flat as i can get it on n75 so far..
440cc injectors were required immediately after 1st couple of runs.. 24-25ms injector duty cycle >5500rpm, stock ones dont cut it, and i dont personally subscribe to fitting 4bar fprs, which make tired old pumps work harder (and actually deliver less just when you need it most!)

as a ref, given this dyno is new to me etc... i have run a few cars to get a feel for things, figures, strapping methods etc etc.
3.2 boxter-s, dyno'd at 240bhp/198lbft, booked 250bhp/220lbft (30'c day however)
lcr 225, dyno'd at 223,226,230bhp/198lbft on several runs

my only real comparisons i have thus far.
need a remapped 210/225 of someone local to try that on as a comparison if anyones about, local to me.


i have an mbc to try tomorrow.. calling it a day for now, 7pm now, been a long day.
luvin me dyno tho.. great tool :)

more l8trs

{edit} going to do a boost leak test tomorrow.. to eliminate leaks from the equation.
 
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im local, but have a tear in the pipe coming form the turbo to the charge pipe, so if you can be bothered to put steves on mine for the run you're more then welcome to use it
 
dela said:
im local, but have a tear in the pipe coming form the turbo to the charge pipe, so if you can be bothered to put steves on mine for the run you're more then welcome to use it
Click to expand...

Did you call Bill yesterday mate? I thought I still had mine kicking about but I have had a look in my bits box at home and at the unit and can't find it... I think I may have sent it with my old K04 setup when I sold it else you would have been welcome to it...

Forge item is cheaper than the OEM...
http://forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=010201SILH&product=FM225TH

<tuffty/>
 
boost leak checked and it leaks at 20psi :(

bumper off next

Ref S3 done this morning of wellys S3.. revo stage 1, max'd plus 4.5 timing, largeport head, stock k04, large fmic..
we are 30bhp up on revo'd s3, and 40lbft up, but it has a leak..

Relative comparison currently.. whilst I get my head round the dynos figures, airflows, logs etc

bumper off now to fix leak(s)
 
hope your be bringing it down when you come, i want a ride so i can get jelous and spend even more money on my car :keule:
 
right done...

boost leak checked first thing and it hisses at me at 20psi

so bumper off and fix that before continuing

As a ref I dyno'd Wellys S3 this morning, revo stage 1, max'd out, plus 4.5 degree timing.. runs huge fmic and largeport head.. 254bhp/225lbft from 20psi boost tapering down to 16psi at 6krpm

I am some +30more bhp and +40lbft than that on Steve's currently with the boost leak...from 23psi sustained

bumper off now.

more l8trs


{some time passes}




no doubt some debate will ensue over this.. lol as always.

yesterdays runs i got 281bhp, today after fixing the boost leak, we peaked 315bhp/250lbft, with airflows logging 275g/s or more occasionally.
now this does'nt all add up..

heat kicks in rapidly, and only ever get one peak reading which is the 313bhp-315bhp range, then drops to 305-308bhp, then down to 296bhp, 292bhp as it gets hotter.. A definate candidate for wanting wmi installed to my mind.

the torque reading does look low to me, but the spool is more akin to BT, spooling 3.5k-4krpm full chat to 25psi tapering to 23psi at 7krpm

now, caviats apply... new dyno to me, maybe i am driving it wrong.. (dont think so, but training is next saturday on it) and thus far, stock cars hav made stock power, and remapped one of wellys S3 made 254bhp, but with apparent low torque which i dont believe. same dyno same day, steve's hybrid 04 has made 60bhp more than a k04.... with huge airflows.. no scaling done to maf at all.

i dont think the dyno is a happy dyno, it certainly is'nt being optomistic on cars i have run so far, presuming i am not being a numpty using it **** about face or owt..

on the road, steve's s3 is rapid, and makes me very much believe the things producing 300bhp power.

let the debate begin
 
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some logs from the weekends mapping of this..


Code: 
Sunday	18	July	2010	14:03:50:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0	Data version: 20100630							
8N0 906 018 J		1.8L R4/5VT         0004											

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'031		Group C:	'020			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization
	TIME					TIME			TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP			STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW
	16.6	1760	60.9	5.44	24.47	16.91	1.016	0.992	16.29	0	0	0	0
	17.5	2280	97	7.14	46.39	17.81	0.992	0.992	17.19	0	0	2.3	2.3
	18.41	2760	131.6	9.18	75.61	18.71	1	0.992	18.11	0	0	2.3	2.3
	19.31	3360	191.7	13.6	167.28	19.62	1.094	0.992	19.01	0	0	2.3	2.3
	20.22	4400	191.7	18.36	216.39	20.53	0.875	0.875	19.92	0	0	1.5	1.5
	21.12	5240	191.7	18.36	243.17	21.43	0.821	0.836	20.82	0	0	1.5	1.5
	22.03	5600	191.7	18.36	255.08	22.33	0.805	0.813	21.73	0	0	0.8	0.8
	22.93	5880	191.7	18.02	257.06	23.24	0.797	0.813	22.63	0	0	0	0
	23.84	6080	191.7	17.68	261.06	24.14	0.789	0.813	23.54	0	0	0	0
	24.75	6360	191.7	17	263.89	25.06	0.805	0.813	24.44	0	0	0	0
	25.65	6640	191.7	16.32	266.31	25.95	0.805	0.813	25.36	0	0	0	0
	26.56	7000	191.7	15.98	269.19	26.86	0.797	0.813	26.26	0	0	0	0
	27.46	7280	178.9	15.3	270.22	27.76	0.891	0.922	27.16	0	0	0	0
	28.37	5720	12.8	1.7	6.53	28.67	0.867	0.945	28.06	0	0	0	0

Code: 
Sunday	18	July	2010	14:17:51:61786	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0	Data version: 20100630							
8N0 906 018 J		1.8L R4/5VT         0004											

	Group A:	'002				Group B:	'112		Group C:	'118			
		RPM	Load	Inj. On Time	Mass Flow		Temperature	Load		RPM	Temperature	Load	Absolute Pres.
	TIME					TIME			TIME				
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 %	 ms	 g/s	STAMP	°C	 %	STAMP	 /min	°C	 %	 mbar
	31.06	1880	87.2	6.8	33.89	31.37	450	0	30.77	1760	35	94.5	1060
	31.97	2400	109	7.48	53.75	32.28	470	0	31.67	2280	33	94.5	1240
	32.88	2920	150.4	10.54	94.89	33.18	500	0	32.57	2760	30	94.5	1520
	33.78	3600	191.7	15.3	139.94	34.08	545	0	33.48	3320	30	70.2	2300
	34.69	4400	191.7	16.32	196.06	34.99	620	0	34.38	4120	30	65.5	2440
	35.59	5280	191.7	18.02	250.53	35.89	680	0	35.29	5000	30	73.3	2540
	36.5	5800	191.7	18.7	266.72	36.8	750	0	36.2	5720	33	80	2540
	37.41	6160	191.7	18.36	272.92	37.7	785	0	37.1	6000	36	80.4	2540
	38.31	6400	190.2	17.68	271.75	38.62	820	0	38.01	6320	38	82.7	2540
	39.21	6600	191.7	17.34	275.42	39.51	835	0	38.91	6520	41	87.1	2540
	40.12	6720	191.7	17	279.11	40.42	855	0	39.82	6680	45	89.4	2540
	41.03	7040	191.7	16.32	279.64	41.33	870	0	40.72	6920	48	90.6	2540
	41.93	7400	191.7	15.3	281.22	42.23	890	0	41.65	7280	51	91.4	2540
	42.83	7160	12	1.36	89.28	43.14	920	6.3	42.54	7600	55	76.9	2540
	43.74	5600	13.5	1.7	12.64	44.04	930	0	43.44	6080	50	0	1210
 
badger5 said:
right done...

boost leak checked first thing and it hisses at me at 20psi

so bumper off and fix that before continuing

As a ref I dyno'd Wellys S3 this morning, revo stage 1, max'd out, plus 4.5 degree timing.. runs huge fmic and largeport head.. 254bhp/225lbft from 20psi boost tapering down to 16psi at 6krpm

I am some +30more bhp and +40lbft than that on Steve's currently with the boost leak...from 23psi sustained

bumper off now.

more l8trs


{some time passes}




no doubt some debate will ensue over this.. lol as always.

yesterdays runs i got 281bhp, today after fixing the boost leak, we peaked 315bhp/250lbft, with airflows logging 275g/s or more occasionally.
now this does'nt all add up..

heat kicks in rapidly, and only ever get one peak reading which is the 313bhp-315bhp range, then drops to 305-308bhp, then down to 296bhp, 292bhp as it gets hotter.. A definate candidate for wanting wmi installed to my mind.

the torque reading does look low to me, but the spool is more akin to BT, spooling 3.5k-4krpm full chat to 25psi tapering to 23psi at 7krpm

now, caviats apply... new dyno to me, maybe i am driving it wrong.. (dont think so, but training is next saturday on it) and thus far, stock cars hav made stock power, and remapped one of wellys S3 made 254bhp, but with apparent low torque which i dont believe. same dyno same day, steve's hybrid 04 has made 60bhp more than a k04.... with huge airflows.. no scaling done to maf at all.

i dont think the dyno is a happy dyno, it certainly is'nt being optomistic on cars i have run so far, presuming i am not being a numpty using it **** about face or owt..

on the road, steve's s3 is rapid, and makes me very much believe the things producing 300bhp power.

let the debate begin
Click to expand...

I'm glad the lost power was found! Didn't make sense to have all that air flow and low power. But then again, that leak at 23 PSI was pretty bad to be fair.

A little disappointed in my runs this morning, after the timing was turned up to 4.5 degrees from 2.25 it made a further 3 BHP (Wooo hooo - LOL) so the last run we had a final output of 257. Torque figure was lower than I would of liked, but as Bill and I discussed this morning, that is deffo not a happy dyno - which in my eyes is a good thing. An accurate figure is what I wanted, and as far as I'm concerned, that's what I got. It's also a good basis for future comparison for me for future mods.

As Bill mentioned, a standard Leon Cupra R was run and made standard figures both BHP and Torque, so that would indicate to me that it is likely to be correct. However, both my torque and Steve's appear to be a little less than expected which seems odd.

280 g/s is an impressive figure by anyone's standards, and shows that the K04 hybrid is well worth the money involved. I am seriously thinking about investing in one now to be honest, although have some more to do to the K04 setup beforehand. I want to wind as much as possible out of a stock motor before moving on to a hybrid, and also install all the bits required (i.e. still need a downpipe and sports cat!) for the hybrid before installing it.

I have a feeling that my turbo is beginning to be 'tired', so waiting for the old blower to go bang before installing a new one....

Top job on this one Bill, with good write ups, so thankyou. This will be a useful post for many moons yet to come!
 
Wicked one steve, nice work Bill as always, if i didn't have a "proper" 4wd you could have mapped my hybrid for me.
 
To say im happy is an under statement i have one of the biggest smiles on my faces i have had in years. The car feels amazing and i had a nightmare driving home having to stay slow so i didnt loose the GF in her little corsa although after getting home i took her out in it and know she wants a turbo'd car so maybe an Ibiza will be on the cards.
 
I know i think i would leave it standard for a while for her to get used to having more power than a hair drier
 
Good power figures. Interested to see what the torque should be. Bound to be more than recorded.
 
as an aside and slight comparison, a vf34 ihi on 1.2-1.4bar will do 320-330bhp and 280lbft, not massive torque monstors.
maybe this hybrid is more akin to a vf34 than it is to a k04 with its new internals.. upsized etc..
i dunno.. purely speculating

engine ecu's internal torque monitor on block 122 showed torque within 10lbft of what it did on the dyno

hmmmm
 
badger5 said:
as an aside and slight comparison, a vf34 ihi on 1.2-1.4bar will do 320-330bhp and 280lbft, not massive torque monstors.
maybe this hybrid is more akin to a vf34 than it is to a k04 with its new internals.. upsized etc..
i dunno.. purely speculating

engine ecu's internal torque monitor on block 122 showed torque within 10lbft of what it did on the dyno

hmmmm
Click to expand...

Thats good to know

My 2.1 will help with my torque

If i hit 320bhp i will be very happy
 
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