Best two tyres on the front or rear??

Vertigo1 said:
How exactly? If you lose the rear end in a FWD car then it's generally lift-off oversteer. The only way to correct this is to steer into the slide and floor it in an attempt to drag the car out of the slide. In most cases, this will have you running wide round the corner and possibly into oncoming traffic.

Basically you have very little control over the back end of a FWD car and thus need all the grip you can get at that end.
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Well that's as maybe. But I stick to the point that if your 'loose' the front or back end of the car when you are driving on the public roads you are not driving to suit the conditions.
 
h5djr said:
Well that's as maybe. But I stick to the point that if your 'loose' the front or back end of the car when you are driving on the public roads you are not driving to suit the conditions.
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Nope, can't agree with that one. It happens, sometimes through no fault of your own.

Happened to me many years ago.... driving down a hill (not fast) on a wet day, some geezer decided to pull out of a side road in front of me, I slammed on the breaks and ended up sliding towards him sideways.
 
aythreee said:
Nope, can't agree with that one. It happens, sometimes through no fault of your own.

Happened to me many years ago.... driving down a hill (not fast) on a wet day, some geezer decided to pull out of a side road in front of me, I slammed on the breaks and ended up sliding towards him sideways.
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That's not really what I was getting at. In that case it would probably not matter what tyres you had, good or bad. But it that sort of situation you would normally slide in an approxiamately straight line as none of the tyres have any grip. What I was getting at is drivers who drives too fast for the conditions through corners etc and loose the car at one end or the other.

The type you hear about on the radio etc. A car left the road and went into a ditch or hit a tree or something. No other car was involved!!

The best answer is to have good tyres both front and rear. The exact depth of the tread is not that important unless its raining very hard when any reasonably driver would slow down anyway.
 
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To answer the OP, the "best" tyres go on the rear purely because understeer is easier to control than oversteer. Got nothing to do with which wheels are driven or steered.
 
I agree. Controlling understeer is much more easier than controlling oversteer. Heck, not everyone knows how to fully control a car unless experienced on the track and etc. With these reasons, now you should know why most low-cost cars are created with front wheel drivetrain.

You can't say or really prepare when something happens while you're driving on the road. The common reaction when we lose control is to brake. Now, I bet most drivers when entering a curve at X speed, to slow down.. we release the throttle and brake. This gives the load to the front, providing traction to the front wheels. When its too much, this causes understeer but as you slow down, it's easier to recover than oversteer.

With FF cars, you know it's not easy to oversteer unless proper weight transfer is initiated and basically doing a controlled oversteer. You'll know the rear will lift and causes it to happen but that's just not gonna happen on normal driving conditions unless you're a moron and drive recklessly on corners. But still, it takes a few maneuvers to create an oversteer with our rather shortbased rear-end. It will just eventually be an understeer in most cases I supposed. Unless you care about curve apex, lifting off the throttle and brake at such an angle, then that'll result in oversteer.

It's important to know even when we can control these understeer/oversteer conditions, our tyres has just enough grip for everyday driving. No one uses track tyres daily. Simplest solution is to drive responsibly and stop acting like the public roads are the tracks.

With proper braking/throttling input, I'd say better front tyres than the rear will do the job. You WILL need front tyre grips for steering input. If you haven't check out proper D1 FF Drifting videos, there's a reason why they have bigger tyres on the front than the back.
 
h5djr said:
I had two new tyres fitted to my A3 a couple of days ago. The chap who runs the tyre depot (an independant rather than a chain) is very experience having worked in the tyre industry all his life and he's now over 60. He always says that on a front-wheel drive car any new tyres should always be fitted on the front as these are the tyres that do all the work providing both power, grip and steering. This is also why the fronts always wear out quicker than the rears.
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If you go to somewhere like Costco for a new set of Michelins, they will only put new ones on the rear. I agree, the vast majority of people on the roads simply could not hold oversteer on a FWD car, therefore it's simply safer to put best/new on the rear.
If you think that the slippery cheapo ones on the front will cause problems with steering and traction, then you'll adjust your style accordingly, won't you. But for that moment when it all goes horribly wrong when the cheapo ones are on the rear, you';ll not be setup to catch it, because your confidence from the better front tyres will be missleading you.

Kevin,

owner of FWD and RWD,
 
964kevin said:
If you go to somewhere like Costco for a new set of Michelins, they will only put new ones on the rear. I agree, the vast majority of people on the roads simply could not hold oversteer on a FWD car, therefore it's simply safer to put best/new on the rear.
If you think that the slippery cheapo ones on the front will cause problems with steering and traction, then you'll adjust your style accordingly, won't you. But for that moment when it all goes horribly wrong when the cheapo ones are on the rear, you';ll not be setup to catch it, because your confidence from the better front tyres will be missleading you.


Kevin,

owner of FWD and RWD,
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The correct answer is to have good tyres on all four wheels. Whether the front tyres are new and have 8mm of thread and the rear tyres are worn and have only 4mm of thread is not that important unless you try silly things in the rain.

Personally I would never fit cheap tyres to my A3. The two I have just changed were from new and have been replaced with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx. These seem to give excellent grip in the wet and are quiet and comfortable at all times. In over 40 years of driving the only time I have experienced oversteer is when a drove had a rear-wheel drive Triumph Dolomite back in 1973. All my other cars have been front wheel drive and I have never any problem with oversteer.
 
h5djr said:
The correct answer is to have good tyres on all four wheels. Whether the front tyres are new and have 8mm of thread and the rear tyres are worn and have only 4mm of thread is not that important unless you try silly things in the rain.

Personally I would never fit cheap tyres to my A3. The two I have just changed were from new and have been replaced with Dunlop SP Sport Maxx. These seem to give excellent grip in the wet and are quiet and comfortable at all times. In over 40 years of driving the only time I have experienced oversteer is when a drove had a rear-wheel drive Triumph Dolomite back in 1973. All my other cars have been front wheel drive and I have never any problem with oversteer.
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you must be a very sedate driver then :ermm:.
 
It's more like an insurance rather than getting your car totalled in the long run. It's not being sedate. I mean, why skimp when you have the cash to get all four tyres new? With that you don't have to worry about which better tyres go to which and if it isn't, I will stay with my opinion that front tyres needs better grip than rear tyres.
 
Surely the point is that if you have two crap tyres you know you are compromising and you should alter your driving style accordingly. I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I might experience severe understeer or snap oversteer if I knew 50% of my tyres were shyte. Apart from the fatuous "oh but you never know when that might happen" type arguments, an honest answer would probably say that 90% of either of those two can be avoided by driving a wee bit slower in those circumstances?
 
So maybe there's only few of us who actually drives conservatively and think conservatively about the grip of the tyres when it gets old. See, it's like I made my point that unless driving like a total moron on public roads with the OP's question raises this "what if" statements or if not yet, arguments.
 
akash_sky1 said:
you must be a very sedate driver then :ermm:.
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I don't think my wife would agree with that statement. A couple of weeks ago I was driving at around 120-130mph for quite some time on the German Autobahns and had my cruise control set at 95mph for several hours on the French Autoroutes. My normal UK motorway speed is around 80-90mph as well as driving as quick as conditions etc allow on other roads.

If driving sedately means driving carefully and in accordance with the road, weather and traffic conditions then I drive sedately. I have never 'lost' my car or driven it off the road and the only accidents I have been involved have been where others have driven into the back of me whilst I was stopped at traffic lights or parked.
 
h5djr said:
I don't think my wife would agree with that statement. A couple of weeks ago I was driving at around 120-130mph for quite some time on the German Autobahns and had my cruise control set at 95mph for several hours on the French Autoroutes. My normal UK motorway speed is around 80-90mph as well as driving as quick as conditions etc allow on other roads.

If driving sedately means driving carefully and in accordance with the road, weather and traffic conditions then I drive sedately. I have never 'lost' my car or driven it off the road and the only accidents I have been involved have been where others have driven into the back of me whilst I was stopped at traffic lights or parked.
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thats all good but driving fast in a straight line and round the twisties is totally different ball game:yes:
 
this thread is quality!
new tyres MUST go on the rear of any car/van/truck
common sense really anyone that thinks correcting over steer is easier than correcting understeer is talking ********!
best example of this is snow RWD cars are awful in snow and hard to control due the over steer 99% of drivers of RWD cars don't even attempt to drive there cars after a decent amount of snow
you tried getting up a hill in 3inch of fresh snow in a RWD car? have FUN!
but in a FWD car you have MUCH more control over where the car is going
i have had both RWD and FWD vehicles and FWD is much easier to correct when it goes tit's up
you have to be driving like a complete and utter tit to loose a fwd car due to over steer
just my thoughts on this ridiculous argument!
 
akash_sky1 said:
thats all good but driving fast in a straight line and round the twisties is totally different ball game:yes:
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Yes and driving TOO fast through the twisties is how people manage to loose it and end up in the ditch. I'm quite capeable of driving quickly on country roads and lanes but again in accordance with the road, weather conditions and traffic with loosing the car in any way.
 
I will chip in at this point.

Having done a 360 on the A32 in a previous car where I had made the mistake of putting the decent new tyres on the front, and swapped the cheap tyres that the Mazda dealer had fitted on the rear.

I would always put the cheap ones on the front, however I have never bought cheap tyres since that experiance.

So my vote is the cheap ones on the front and make sure whilst they are on the car that you drive within their limits :yes:

There endeth todays lesson - grasshopper :jester:

Paul
 
theend.jpg
 
Well well well, what a thread this turned in to!! :lmfao:

And for those who are banging on about not buying cheapo tyres... I KNOW NOW (and if i'm honest I knew better at the time of buying but saving a quick buck turned my head).
But it's done, and until I take them back to the nice and kind guy at wheel shop so he can swap them for some proper branded and NOT CHEAPO tyres (with me just paying the difference) I just want to have them at the end of the car which is "best".
And the "best" end, from reading this thread and millions of other bits of info all over the net and applying some common sense (at last), seems to be the front end of my car.

But thanks guys, it's been an experience! :thumbsup:

PS: What about if I put the cheapo tyres on the right hand side front and rear... or the left hand side front and rear??? :happy:
PPS: Or one on the front right and one on the rear left???? :undwech:
 
when i bought my last impreza there were 4 brand new F**kens on it so i left them a couple of weeks to see how they were. CRAP was the answer to they got binned for some Michelin PS2's. Dont know why anyone would scrimp on tyres for a performance car. Id rather buy a car with 4 bald tyres and bargain on the price than have 4 new tyres that are crap that your going to have to replace anyway!
 
crunchie said:
when i bought my last impreza there were 4 brand new F**kens on it so i left them a couple of weeks to see how they were. CRAP was the answer to they got binned for some Michelin PS2's. Dont know why anyone would scrimp on tyres for a performance car. Id rather buy a car with 4 bald tyres and bargain on the price than have 4 new tyres that are crap that your going to have to replace anyway!
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Do you remember which Falkens they were?? FK452 I've heard are very good.
 
aythreee said:
Do you remember which Falkens they were?? FK452 I've heard are very good.
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they were 912's. ive never had 452's but im not going to risk it.

http://www.tyretest.com/ is usually a goodish guide. looking for wet results to be less than 2. (1 being the best, 6 being the worst) 452's score 2.3 in the wet, PS2's score 1.8, enough said!
912's are 2.5 so the 454's ate a wee bit better.
 
crunchie said:
they were 912's. ive never had 452's but im not going to risk it.

http://www.tyretest.com/ is usually a goodish guide. looking for wet results to be less than 2. (1 being the best, 6 being the worst) 452's score 2.3 in the wet, PS2's score 1.8, enough said!
912's are 2.5 so the 454's ate a wee bit better.
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0.5.... is that a lot of difference??
 
aythreee said:
0.5.... is that a lot of difference??
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to me its worth paying the extra for. i dont just go by what they say but if i go through all the tyres ive had and compare them to their results they are never far out. guess it all comes down to £ at the end of the day.
 
Well I can comprehensively say that Autogrip F107 are a pile of *****!
And if they were on that "1 being the best and 6 being the worst" tyre test they would score 125.
 
As mentioned above I went on the mother of all drives on the weekend (with Falken 452s on ) 200 mile round trip with 110 miles off that flat out/ v hard cornering.
An S3 with PS2s and a super nimble Corsa VXR also on PS2s didnt have any extra noticeable edge over me in the bends- the nature of the roads meant you needed grit and skill to push your motor to the limit. I was pushing pretty hard , got some mild understeer and four wheel drifts at under high speed cornering 50- 90 mph as well v hard braking from over 120 mph, and I can say I am impressed with them for the money. This was in damp conditions for about half of the time as well and with standard suspension.

They provided good steering feedback, very good grip in wet and dry ( traction wasnt much of an issue obv) and good progression from grip to slip. I wouldnt rule them out for the money, the extra dosh for PS2s or other would be well spent for drivers who really push their cars but may be not for your average person.
 
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akash_sky1 said:
As mentioned above I went on the mother of all drives on the weekend- 200 mile round trip with 110 miles off that flat out/ v hard cornering.
An S3 with PS2s and a super nimble Corsa VXR also on PS2s didnt have any extra noticeable edge over me in the bends- the nature of the roads meant you needed grit and skill to push your motor to the limit. I was pushing pretty hard , got some mild understeer and four wheel drifts at under high speed cornering 50- 90 mph as well v hard braking from over 120 mph, and I can say I am impressed with them for the money. This was in damp conditions for about half of the time as well and with standard suspension.

They provided good steering feedback, very good grip in wet and dry ( traction wasnt much of an issue obv) and good progression from grip to slip. I wouldnt rule them out for the money, the extra dosh for PS2s or other would be well spent for drivers who really push their cars but may be not for your average person.
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What tyres are you running???
Sorry, did you already mention that?
 
not being funny but the best tyre on the market pilot sport 3's are only £104 delivered from camskill they will outlast the falkens easily prob twice over so for the extra £60 they are a steal!
miles better tyre all round than the falkens anyone who questions this must be mad
 
dont get me wrong, i only run continental sport contact 3's on the A3 but its hardly a pure driving machine. i feel the extra for the michelins is unjustified.
 
antmax7 said:
not being funny but the best tyre on the market pilot sport 3's are only £104 delivered from camskill they will outlast the falkens easily prob twice over so for the extra £60 they are a steal!
miles better tyre all round than the falkens anyone who questions this must be mad
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have you run the new PS3's? i heard they are even better than the 2's. cheaper too by the looks of things!
 
Certainly £84 each is a good price for a tyre for the A3. I have just had two 225/45xZR17 Dunlop SP Sport Maxx tyres fitted to my A3. I chose that particular tyre to match those fitted at the factory and I was only changing two at this stage. The Dunlops cost me £120 each, fitted including new valves and balancing.
 
Slightly off topic but my brother who has an identical car to mine put new continental sport contact 3's and i took his car for a test drive. It felt like a quattro in the hairpins, no understeer whatsoever and they were really quiet. (btw his car came from the factory 2 months before mine at the same dealer with pirelli p zero's)

Mine came with hankooks? from the factory and they do understeer like a fridge on rollerblades and have a drone at motorway speeds. Did my dealer swap my pirelli p zero for some cheap Korean ones?
 
Harrelson said:
Slightly off topic but my brother who has an identical car to mine put new continental sport contact 3's and i took his car for a test drive. It felt like a quattro in the hairpins, no understeer whatsoever and they were really quiet. (btw his car came from the factory 2 months before mine at the same dealer with pirelli p zero's)

Mine came with hankooks? from the factory and they do understeer like a fridge on rollerblades and have a drone at motorway speeds. Did my dealer swap my pirelli p zero for some cheap Korean ones?
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i must admit i thought Audi only used Michelin, Continental, Pirelli & Bridgestone.
 
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