Steering off centre... and heavy.

[Ads]

Just got my car back from having a new steering rack fitted and I have noticed the following:

1) The steering is slightly off centre. So, if I hold the wheel straight the car slightly veers to the left. To go straight the steering wheel needs to be held a few degrees to the right. I've also noticed that if I turn the wheel full lock to the right the end position of the steering wheel is slightly different (further round) than the end position when locking to the left.

2) The power steering is heavier now. Not by much but it is definitely harder to turn the wheel since the rack has been replaced.


The car is going back to be looked at but just wanted to be armed with a bit of knowledge beforehand.

I'm guessing the off centre steering wheel can be rectified by removing it and refitting it a notch or two to the left?? Or is it not as straight forward as that??

As for the power steering; is it normal that it would be heavier after having a brand new rack fitted and it will loosen up after a while??
I think there's some values in vagcom that can be changed to adjust the steering assistance. Anybody got any advice on this??


Cheers.

 

[paddy]

The off centre steering is probably tracking. It needs to be aligned on a 4 wheel rig front back not just left right. I cant believe if they removed the S/wheel they got that a notch out !!

 

[Ads]

The off centre steering is probably tracking. It needs to be aligned on a 4 wheel rig front back not just left right. I cant believe if they removed the S/wheel they got that a notch out !!

I did think about it being down to tracking, but when I called the dealer and asked if it could be that they said the tracking had been done.

It's not an Audi dealer who carried out the work so putting the steering wheel back on a notch out....... maybe??

 

[paddy]

Yea but did they do it front to back ? You have to set the S/wheel dead centre then check alignment with the back. The fronts could be tracked left/right ok but thats not to say they are not out of align with the back when the steering wheel is dead straight.

 

[Ads]

Hmmm, yeah not sure about the type of alignment they did. Will ask. Cheers.
Been doing a bit of reading and alignment does keep on popping up.

 

[VWAddict]

It's also quite important that they do the Alignment PROPERLY in terms of steering column rotation, since steering input is one of the monitored input sensors for ESP.

-When the wheel speed sensors input differential speeds, the ESP computer looks at the steering input, and uses steering input as a 'reason' not to intervene, since the more you turn the wheel, the greater the expected degree of wheel speed differential.

-Granted, for only SLIGHT angular offsets, this is not usually a significant problem, and if it's as simple as the steering wheel being 'one spline off', then it's not an issue, since the steering sensor measures the COLUMN rotation, and not the wheel position... If the (adjustable) tie-rod ends at each end of the steering rack are improperly adjusted (which is where I'd be suspicious) then the steering COLUMN (and hence the steering wheel also) would be off-center, and therefore the steering input to the ESP monitoring would be wrong.

I'd DEFINITELY take it up with the garage who did the work, since it's a sign that SOMETHING has not been done 100% by the book. -A proper job done at an Audi dealership would have had the wheel at straight, and a proper job anywhere else should be the same.

Keith

 

[Ads]

It's also quite important that they do the Alignment PROPERLY in terms of steering column rotation, since steering input is one of the monitored input sensors for ESP.

-When the wheel speed sensors input differential speeds, the ESP computer looks at the steering input, and uses steering input as a 'reason' not to intervene, since the more you turn the wheel, the greater the expected degree of wheel speed differential.

-Granted, for only SLIGHT angular offsets, this is not usually a significant problem, and if it's as simple as the steering wheel being 'one spline off', then it's not an issue, since the steering sensor measures the COLUMN rotation, and not the wheel position... If the (adjustable) tie-rod ends at each end of the steering rack are improperly adjusted (which is where I'd be suspicious) then the steering COLUMN (and hence the steering wheel also) would be off-center, and therefore the steering input to the ESP monitoring would be wrong.

I'd DEFINITELY take it up with the garage who did the work, since it's a sign that SOMETHING has not been done 100% by the book. -A proper job done at an Audi dealership would have had the wheel at straight, and a proper job anywhere else should be the same.

Keith

Interesting and informative read, that. Many thanks Keith :icon_thumright:

Any ideas on the heavy steering?

 

[VWAddict]

Interesting and informative read, that. Many thanks Keith :icon_thumright:

Any ideas on the heavy steering?

'No... and I have to say that puzzled me... -So I didn't comment.

But what year is your car?-and have you checked to see if the steering assistance adaptation (I know you have a cable to 'connect' to the car, at least! ) has any effect.

The module for my car (2008 US version) does not permit modification of the assistance level, but yours may or may not.

Worth an investigation, I'd say.

Also, does the stiffness ease off with speed, or is it constantly 'heavy', even at 70MPH?

Keith

 

[VWAddict]

One other thread seems coincidental:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?90543-Steering-problem

-I wonder if the later rack is upgraded. -Certainly if there have been lots of problems, they may have upgraded the part. -Did you check numbers and suffixes to see if it's an updated part?

Keith

 

[VWAddict]

Recoding (on years/versions whcih permit it) is done via VAG-COM as I mentioned earlier...

Module 44 (steering assist) / Adaptation -10 / channel 1.

Values range from 0 (least assist) to 6, if I recall correctly.

 

[Ads]

But what year is your car?-and have you checked to see if the steering assistance adaptation (I know you have a cable to 'connect' to the car, at least! ) has any effect.

The module for my car (2008 US version) does not permit modification of the assistance level, but yours may or may not.

Worth an investigation, I'd say.

Also, does the stiffness ease off with speed, or is it constantly 'heavy', even at 70MPH?

Keith

MY car's a 2006. Can't say I've noticed if the steering still feels heavy at high speeds, but I did notice that it still feels heavy at speeds up to say 40mph.
I plan to check the steering adaptation tomorrow with my cable but don't want to start changing settings/assistance and end up masking a problem.

One other thread seems coincidental:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?90543-Steering-problem

-I wonder if the later rack is upgraded. -Certainly if there have been lots of problems, they may have upgraded the part. -Did you check numbers and suffixes to see if it's an updated part?

Keith

Yeah, I saw that thread too (posted on it a little while ago), and yep, the new rack that I have had fitted is an updated/modified part released by Audi, due to the original racks being problematic.
So coding required???

 

[Ads]

Recoding (on years/versions whcih permit it) is done via VAG-COM as I mentioned earlier...

Module 44 (steering assist) / Adaptation -10 / channel 1.

Values range from 0 (least assist) to 6, if I recall correctly.

Ah, so the "recoding" required is just setting the assist level then?
Thought there was something more to it, i.e. telling the ECU that the car has a new/different rack fitted.

 

[VWAddict]

Yep...

I'm not sure where the module lives, but if it lives with the rack, it'd have been swapped out with the unit of course... There will be (power) electrical connections to the rack of course, because it's electrical as opposed to the old hydraulic types, which didn't have any electrical connection, but I don't know if the control module is physically within it or external to it... -sorry.

2006 here in the US is adaptation-controllable (2007/8 and later isn't), so you might be in luck!

I don't think anything else will have to be done in VCDS regarding the swap, but take a look at the number that's there already; if it's a high number, that might suggest that something else is not quite right, but if it's set to a very low number, that might be the ticket right there... -Post back with whatever you find.

-You 'thieving' rascal, you!

:busted_cop:



Keith

 

[Ads]

Christ!!
Well i've tried to get into steering assist but it doesn't appear to be allowing me in. Keep getting "error channel 01 not available".
Tried enabling in security settings (as advised somewhere) using code 40168. Code was accepted, but still no luck getting in.

Also did an angle sensor test type thingy:

Sensor for Steering Angle (G85)

Prerequisites:

• Start the vehicle.
• Turn the steering wheel one turn to the right and one turn to the left.
• Drive in a short distance straight line on a level surface at a speed not higher than 20 km/h.
• If the steering wheel is straight during the test drive then stop the vehicle with the wheels pointed straight.
• Ensure that the steering wheel is not moved again.
• Keep the engine running and do not switch off the ignition.
• System voltage at least 12.0 V.
  
  

[Select]
[03 - Brake Electronics]
[Coding-II - 11]
OR (if Coding-II is not available)
[Security Access - 16]
Enter 40168, to enable the basic setting.
[Do it!]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 060
[Go!]
Activate the Basic Setting.
[ON/OFF/Next]
After a successful basic setting, field 2 should say "OK".
[Done, Go Back]
To make sure the basic setting was succesful, check the sensor again.
[Measuring Blocks - 08]
Group 004
[Go!]
Check field 1, the value has to be between -1.5 and +1.5 °.
[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]


My value was way out... something like 5.25.

Found a few fault codes too:

Address 16: Steering wheel
Control Module Part Number: 8P0 953 549 F
Component and/or Version: J0527 H34 0070
Software Coding: 0011112
Work Shop Code: WSC 06314
Additional Info: XXXXXXXXXXX E0221 H03 0080
Additional Info: Geraet 00000
1 Fault Found:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


-----------------------------------------

Address 44: Steering Assist
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 909 144 H
Component and/or Version: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69 2901
Software Coding: 0000000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
2 Faults Found:
03803 - Unknown Error Code
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 76024 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.07.01
Time: 00:23:56

Freeze Frame:
Battery Volts: 12.2 V
DD
Temperature: 35.0°C
Count: 3
Steering Angle: 0.00°
Count: 1
SteerAng n.Init

00750 - Warning Lamp
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 4
Mileage: 76024 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.07.01
Time: 00:00:03

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 12.25 V
DD
Temperature: 32.0°C
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Count: 0

------------------------------------


Address 03: ABS Brakes
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 AA
Component and/or Version: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Software Coding: 0021122
Work Shop Code: WSC 06314
1 Fault Found:
01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500)
008 - Implausible Signal


I notice that the steering assist has NO software coding.My head hurts

 

[VWAddict]

If it's any help, my own 2008 doesn't allow coding for steering assist. -Could it be that the new rack has replaced the module (included?) and now is a later variant? -You'd have to ask other UK-spec 2006 owners if their scans show 8P0 953 549 F, or an earlier module version, I guess.

As for the fault codes, whaddaya think? -Perhaps clear them and see if they return after a day or so of normal driving? -I mean, I'm guessing...

Hard to know if they were caused at the time of fitting and intial testing, or if they recur: -July 1st; is that the dated when it was fitted? or is it a time AFTER the fitting?

That steering position error I'd presume is an alignment error, though. My presumption is that they've set the vehicle up for the correct toe angle, somewhere near the 'straight-ahead' wheel position, but that they didn't check the rack's absolute center position, and that is what the steering angle sensor measures.

Armed with the VCDS steering info, I'd go back and ask if they just did a toe/camber/castor angle check or if they did a full steering check. -If they don't have VCDS or the factory-authorised VAG scan tool, (I think you said it was an independant/non-dealership service garage, is that right?) then maybe you need to provide some help so that it that step can be included in the alignment procedure.

-In the old days (I'm thinking air-cooled VW's now!) I just used to center the steering box in its range of motion (counting the turns either side to find the center) and then eyeball the front wheels, then dig out the trusty old Dunlop toe-angle gauges to dial it the rest of the way in... Nowadays it's a bit more complicated, and thankfully I've never had to do the job yet!

Good luck though, and I'm interested to hear what the outcome is.

Keith

 

[Ads]

As for the fault codes, whaddaya think? -Perhaps clear them and see if they return after a day or so of normal driving? -I mean, I'm guessing...

Hard to know if they were caused at the time of fitting and intial testing, or if they recur: -July 1st; is that the dated when it was fitted? or is it a time AFTER the fitting?

They had the car for a week, but the 1st was a couple of days before collecting it so I guess it could've been the date it was fitted.
I'll clear the faults and see what happens. Didn't want to do it initially as I wanted them to be available to the mechanics when returning the car, just in case they have a diagnostics tool to read them (if they don't I could always point them in the direction of one!! )
But yeah, i'll give that a go. I've saved the fault codes so can pass them on to them if needed.

That steering position error I'd presume is an alignment error, though. My presumption is that they've set the vehicle up for the correct toe angle, somewhere near the 'straight-ahead' wheel position, but that they didn't check the rack's absolute center position, and that is what the steering angle sensor measures.

Armed with the VCDS steering info, I'd go back and ask if they just did a toe/camber/castor angle check or if they did a full steering check. -If they don't have VCDS or the factory-authorised VAG scan tool, (I think you said it was an independant/non-dealership service garage, is that right?) then maybe you need to provide some help so that it that step can be included in the alignment procedure.

Good advice. And yes you are correct, they are an independent garage. Only allowed the car to go there because the independent dealer that I bought the car from agreed to pay for sorting out the rack and wanted their own guys to do it.

Good luck though, and I'm interested to hear what the outcome is.

Will keep you posted. Cheers for the help

 

[NHN]

-I wonder if the later rack is upgraded. -Certainly if there have been lots of problems, they may have upgraded the part.

Racks have been upgraded twice now, there are Gen 1, 2 & 3, with looms also needing replaced between Generations & they have changed somethings given the issues faced & there are visual differences like number of bolt fixings for 1, all detailed in ELSAWIN.

Ah, so the "recoding" required is just setting the assist level then?
Thought there was something more to it, i.e. telling the ECU that the car has a new/different rack fitted.

Yes when you fit a new rack, VAS goes through a procedure to install the new rack.

Yep...

I'm not sure where the module lives, but if it lives with the rack, it'd have been swapped out with the unit of course...

If you're referring to the power module on the rack, its part of the main housing & isnt replacable on its own.

Also did an angle sensor test type thingy:

Address 44: Steering Assist
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 909 144 H
Component and/or Version: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69 2901
Software Coding: 0000000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
2 Faults Found:
03803 - Unknown Error Code
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 76024 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.07.01
Time: 00:23:56

Address 03: ABS Brakes
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 AA
Component and/or Version: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Software Coding: 0021122
Work Shop Code: WSC 06314
1 Fault Found:
01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500)
008 - Implausible Signal:

The fact you have an implausible signal from the rack does worry me if the loom is connected properly & if its the right one, but you can communicate with 44, so try doing the calibrations in steering assist 44 instead of abs 03

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Audi_A3_(8P)_Steering_Assist#Adaptation

That steering position error I'd presume is an alignment error, though.

Armed with the VCDS steering info, I'd go back and ask if they just did a toe/camber/castor angle check or if they did a full steering check.

For a start they wouldnt of removed the steering wheel to do the rack, just removed the pin at the rack fixing in the footwell, so doubt this has caused misaligned wheel, when they change the rack they probably removed the old tie rod ends & used them on the new rack, they may have fitted the rod ends back with wrong number of turns, thus its now crooked, as already stated an alignment & adjustment will solve this issue.

The hard steering is IMHO purely down to the steering calibrations need to be done fully, just follow the link above & it should be ok, sometimes takes a few attempts.

 

[Ads]

Ok, I have cleared the above faults and of those listed only this one returns:

Address 03: ABS Brakes
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 AA
Component and/or Version: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Software Coding: 0021122
Work Shop Code: WSC 06314
1 Fault Found:
01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500)
008 - Implausible Signal


The other's don't appear to be returning.

The fact you have an implausible signal from the rack does worry me if the loom is connected properly & if its the right one, but you can communicate with 44, so try doing the calibrations in steering assist 44 instead of abs 03

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Audi_A3_(8P)_Steering_Assist#Adaptation

This process looks slightly different to the one I tried earlier. Just gotta pop up the road for half an hour, but will give this a go when I'm back, and post up how I get on.
:icon_thumright:

 

[VWAddict]

Interesting stuff, thanks both of you.

What's odd is that I'm not hearing of the same number of rack issues in the US. -Is it a RHD rack problem I wonder, or do mainland European cars also suffer these issues?

There are comparatively so few A3's sold over here that it might take a while to show up, is one line of thought I'm contemplating.

Keith

 

[Ads]

Right, I've tried the calibrations but am having no luck.

Here is what happens:

I do the one turn right then left, drive forward about 20 meters at less than 20km/h, then stop and leave engine running and don't touch the steering.
Then go into 44 steering assist, but coding II is not available so I go into Security Access 16 and enter code 40168. Says that it accepts code.
Then I go into basic settings and it looks like this.....

I try to enable basic settings by clicking on/off/next but nothing happens. It just stays looking like this.

Anyway, next went into measuring blocks 8 and group 007 and as you can see field one is not between -1.5 and 1.5.
Here is what it looks like:

Dunno if its because the basic settings part didn't work.

Just for the heck of it I tried doing the steering limit stop adaption.... but nothing helped there.

 

[NHN]

I'm gonna do some reading as I'm sure the newer racks had the steering angle sensor built into them, wondering if there's a clash of sensors, speculative but a mod I'm working on may need a newer rack aswell & that J version on yours now is very new indeed as the one for our cars was F last time I checked & then now its gone to a G & then a J recently, buggers.

Usually I ave found one wont work until the other is also resolved mate, hate doing these things.

Get back to yer when I have more info.

PS. Gotta love Ross-Tech

 

[VWAddict]

PS. Gotta love Ross-Tech

yeah... Definitely not worth the money!

 

[Ads]

I'm gonna do some reading as I'm sure the newer racks had the steering angle sensor built into them, wondering if there's a clash of sensors, speculative but a mod I'm working on may need a newer rack aswell & that J version on yours now is very new indeed as the one for our cars was F last time I checked & then now its gone to a G & then a J recently, buggers.

All pretty straight forward then

Get back to yer when I have more info.

Please do mate. I've got a feeling these guys that I'm taking the car back to won't know how to fix the weight/calibration issue.

PS. Gotta love Ross-Tech

yeah... Definitely not worth the money!

 

[VWAddict]

heh!

I for one am definitely grateful that everything is all being taken in good spirits!

Keef

(PS: 4th of July over here... it SUCKS to be British in the states on the 4th of July!!!)

 

[NHN]

Ok to add to this thread, I figured out how they get the steering angle to work on newer cars, it is taken from the rack & its a setting within the steering systems that enables internal steering angle sensor within rack, not in steering column, so thats helped me to go further with a mod.

 

[Ads]

Ok to add to this thread, I figured out how they get the steering angle to work on newer cars, it is taken from the rack & its a setting within the steering systems that enables internal steering angle sensor within rack, not in steering column, so thats helped me to go further with a mod.

Thought of a way to get ride of my fault code?

 

[Khufu]

Thought of a way to get ride of my fault code?

na, im sure i know why he needed this issue solved LOL

 

[Gavin0478]

You wanting to adjust the powersteering weight? What dies the park assist use to control the steering then.

 

[Khufu]

You wanting to adjust the powersteering weight? What dies the park assist use to control the steering then.

the electric motor on the rack is controlled by can bus signals from the park assist module.