VAGCOM Leads
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AJames
Rally Driver - road Audi S3-8P
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I have the lead (Micro-Can), but would like the new software version to go with it. Can you sort?
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smudge_don
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Just to confirm, I DO NOT offer vagcom leads of any sort.
The question was asked where a cheap lead can be found... and I simply know where.
If you want genuine then as said NHN is the man for the job.
PS: I don't agree with the "cheap crap" comment though. I've had my "cheap crap" for a year now and it works faultlessly, everytime.
The question was asked where a cheap lead can be found... and I simply know where.
If you want genuine then as said NHN is the man for the job.
PS: I don't agree with the "cheap crap" comment though. I've had my "cheap crap" for a year now and it works faultlessly, everytime.
The cheap crap may work, but maybe buying the proper kit does actually give respect to the guys that make it, cause you'll find them on forums day in/out helping people freely in there own time & to date updates have been free, support has been free, if thats not worth the price then what is.
TOM, you should know better slim
James as long as yours is genuine then the new software releases will be free & downloadable from the RT site directly which is now 10.6 released yesterday.
Also consider this, you buy 15-30k cars, then spend £65 a tank, some daily, high insurance costs, car tax, servicing, mods running into sometimes thousands, etc etc, then go & scrimp on what I consider the best purchase for any of my vag cars past & present, then some even have the front to whinge there counterfeits dont work properly, please, wake up call, reality check.
Not said as a seller, said as a user, would be lost without mine & not once has it ever failed me & never had 1 cable come back faulty, ever & not 1 single complaint or problem.
TOM, you should know better slim
James as long as yours is genuine then the new software releases will be free & downloadable from the RT site directly which is now 10.6 released yesterday.
Also consider this, you buy 15-30k cars, then spend £65 a tank, some daily, high insurance costs, car tax, servicing, mods running into sometimes thousands, etc etc, then go & scrimp on what I consider the best purchase for any of my vag cars past & present, then some even have the front to whinge there counterfeits dont work properly, please, wake up call, reality check.
Not said as a seller, said as a user, would be lost without mine & not once has it ever failed me & never had 1 cable come back faulty, ever & not 1 single complaint or problem.
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Hear all that you say but I just think it's each to their own really.
People using cheap copies get a hard time on here, but some people just can't justify spending £250 on something they won't use that often (me).
As for giving respect to the guys that make it, they've got my respect, just not my money. I would never have paid that amount for vcds even if there were no copies, so they aren't really losing out with me.
And this sort of "disrepect" comes in many forms. i.e. downloading music, films, etc from the net for free.
We all do it, or have done it... haven't we??
There's no difference in my eyes.
But yeah, if you buy cheapo and it doesn't work... don't moan, throw it in the bin. I would.
And going by the price I've got about 10 attempts at finding a cheap one that works before i've spent more than I would've on genuine.
People using cheap copies get a hard time on here, but some people just can't justify spending £250 on something they won't use that often (me).
As for giving respect to the guys that make it, they've got my respect, just not my money. I would never have paid that amount for vcds even if there were no copies, so they aren't really losing out with me.
And this sort of "disrepect" comes in many forms. i.e. downloading music, films, etc from the net for free.
We all do it, or have done it... haven't we??
There's no difference in my eyes.
But yeah, if you buy cheapo and it doesn't work... don't moan, throw it in the bin. I would.
And going by the price I've got about 10 attempts at finding a cheap one that works before i've spent more than I would've on genuine.
smudge_don
Registered User
I'd rather pay to have a proper one
Other wise i'd have saved myself a few quid and bought a Skoda
Other wise i'd have saved myself a few quid and bought a Skoda
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I'd rather pay to have a proper one
Other wise i'd have saved myself a few quid and bought a Skoda
lol! Skoda do A3's??
Have to agree with Aythree. The average 'joe' who just wants to fiddle around with his own car as and when he feels like it and might need to change something on the odd occasion isn't the same as some of you guys on here who use the kit for semi-professional purposes every day. I can fully understand that those guys would more than happily pay £250 ish. But for something that you might only use half a dozen times then purchasing a 'cheapo' is worth the gamble that it might work ok.
I found an excellent website ( vag-diagnostics.com ) which may be of interest to some of you who fall into the latter bracket.
I found an excellent website ( vag-diagnostics.com ) which may be of interest to some of you who fall into the latter bracket.
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smudge_don
Registered User
I agree 100%. You're right. It is EXACTLY the same.
But you're 100% wrong, insofar as that DOESN'T make it 'okay'.
If all my meighbours are car thieves, that DOESN'T make it even slightly less 'wrong' for me to steal a car.
It's the same with software.
I've worked for 30 years in a field where theft and downloading are now destroying the industry.
-But it's okay, because "we've all done it"... -right?
Wrong.
Dead wrong.
If you can rationalise it with the "everyone else is doing it" argument, then you're just using tha treason to justify it to yourself. It's still illegal, a breach of the EULA, and -despite any platitudes on your part to the contrary, you are NOT respecting the manufacturers, and owners of the IP.
If they go out of business, software updates stop. If they have to shed jobs to STAY in business, software updates are less comprehensive.
I don't care if you think it's okay or not, it ISN'T.
I'll stand by that forever as being morally right, and it's also the LAW.
Keith
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I've re-read my post a few times now and I'm still having problems finding the part where I said it was "okay".
I think you've missed my point so I'll make it clearer:
Many people on here come down hard on other's who buy copy vcds/vagcom, but how many of these people download music and films from the net and are less than righteous about that.
Do you see where I'm going with this??
Just in case not......... I am by no means justifying or trying to say that I or anyone else is right by buying fake cables and hacked software.
So your....
and...
AND....
oh, AANNNDDD.........
hold weight in response to an argument that exists somewhere; just not one that is here.
But cheers. :icon_thumright:
Oh and did you really need to pull this one out of the bag??....
Ah, I may have misunderstood the intent of yout post, and missed your point. -It wasn't clear to me, and -having re-read the post a couple more times- it still isn't entirely clear in the original post that you were NOT 'defending' it.
Well, I took you (apparently wrongly) to be inferring that it was 'okay' by a similar justification. -I don't really see a terrific difference.
When I grew up (in Liverpool!) one of my neighbours was indeed a housebreaker, who also did a roaring trade in stolen car radios. (Good way to reinforce the Scouse stereotype!) -So it's really not all that far fetched; -I didn't 'need' to "dig" very deep, at all!
Anyhow, I'm still not sure which point you're trying to make; -Is it that we actually agree?
-certainly, I stand by the statement that it's wrong, and it hurts everyone in the end to use unlicensed software. -What it means at best case is that the updates come less frequently and/or are less comprehensive, and at worst case, it could make it untenable for the company to continue in business.
So if I misunderstood you, I apologise. -Your intent wasn't entirely clear to me, and yes I did take you to be 'defending' the practice.
Certainly, I regard 'assisting' people to use software for which they don't own a license to be less than moral, and most certainly illegal, so it's not much of a stretch to read your original post as inferring that it was 'okay'. -Even after having re-read the original post.
Keith
Hey Nige, would I get shown how to use it if I bought one sometime!! You know what us daft women are like with techy things lol
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I'm not sure why it's not clear. It's there in my second sentence...
But maybe it's just me. Or maybe it's just you.
The problem here is that I was making one point and you have made another one. So there are now two points being made. Which means that we can't agree with each other's. Unless of course we start talking about each other's points. And if I did start talking about your point then I would say that of course it is not "right" to use unlicensed software. Therefore agreeing, now that we are there.
"Assisting people".. so in this situation that equals "giving them a link to a website"... less than moral?? Maybe.
Illegal.... no. Because breaking the law, it isn't.
Aythreee
You really are making too much of this, I feel.
-But illegai it most certainly IS, if you're using an unlicensed version of Ross-Tech software.
The EULA -to which you have to assent before using the software- makes it very plain.
No licensed copy, plus third-party hardware = legally prohibited use of the software.
That part is fairly simple.
Your conscience may not be sufficiently well developed for you to feel bad about it, but it IS both immoral and illegal. -Not maybe, definitely.
Intellectual property law may get contrived and complicated sometimes, and apparently it is not respected much these days by the general public, but posting a link IS assisting people to break the law in the same way which you do.
There is no question of 'possibly' being morally wrong, nor illegal.
Keith
-But illegai it most certainly IS, if you're using an unlicensed version of Ross-Tech software.
The EULA -to which you have to assent before using the software- makes it very plain.
No licensed copy, plus third-party hardware = legally prohibited use of the software.
That part is fairly simple.
Your conscience may not be sufficiently well developed for you to feel bad about it, but it IS both immoral and illegal. -Not maybe, definitely.
Intellectual property law may get contrived and complicated sometimes, and apparently it is not respected much these days by the general public, but posting a link IS assisting people to break the law in the same way which you do.
There is no question of 'possibly' being morally wrong, nor illegal.
Keith
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Oh Keef!! I'm making too much of this??Have you seen the length and the depth of your replies since you chose to get involved by lecturing?
And again, passing on the web addy of a site which sells unlicensed software is NOT illegal. I can assure you of that.
As for being immoral... christ Keef, I passed on a website to a few people.
But this bit right here.....
.....makes me say "jog on Keef".
Aythreeeeeeeeeee
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How's about a bit of reality ?
Ross-tech have been producing this software for a long time now. Software that no doubt cost a lot of money to develop.
However, once developed it is much, much easier and cheaper to produce and maintain updates. They must have recouped their initial development costs by now and the cables will no doubt be ten-a-penny from the Far East.
I seem to remember tellys were very expensive at one time but once development costs have been recovered then look at them now !
If they were to reduce the selling cost of the product to a level whereby many more people would be interested in buying i.e. a level that would attract the 'occasional user' then this would have a fourfold beneficial effect :-
1. It would stop the stealers ripping us off
2. It would eliminate the need and the market for piracy
3. It would maintain RT's ability to retain expertise and continue development of the product
4. and as previously mentioned attract a lot more 'ordinary folk' to buy their product on the basis of "it's a reasonable price - I'll give it a go"
Everyone has heard of ' the supermarket policy ' stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap ' Can anyone tell me of a supermarket that isn't successful with that policy ?
Come on RT - you can sort this very easily if you want - sell it for the right price and you'll massively increase sales.
If not then I'm afraid human nature ( or a very large percentage of it ) will prevail and people will try and obtain something only at the price they are prepared to pay.
Otherwise they will not buy.
Professional use is ,of course, excepted on the basis that it's a business expense.
It's a tough world out there and whingeing and moralising is not going to cure the problem.
Finished now - keep smiling !!!!!!
Ross-tech have been producing this software for a long time now. Software that no doubt cost a lot of money to develop.
However, once developed it is much, much easier and cheaper to produce and maintain updates. They must have recouped their initial development costs by now and the cables will no doubt be ten-a-penny from the Far East.
I seem to remember tellys were very expensive at one time but once development costs have been recovered then look at them now !
If they were to reduce the selling cost of the product to a level whereby many more people would be interested in buying i.e. a level that would attract the 'occasional user' then this would have a fourfold beneficial effect :-
1. It would stop the stealers ripping us off
2. It would eliminate the need and the market for piracy
3. It would maintain RT's ability to retain expertise and continue development of the product
4. and as previously mentioned attract a lot more 'ordinary folk' to buy their product on the basis of "it's a reasonable price - I'll give it a go"
Everyone has heard of ' the supermarket policy ' stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap ' Can anyone tell me of a supermarket that isn't successful with that policy ?
Come on RT - you can sort this very easily if you want - sell it for the right price and you'll massively increase sales.
If not then I'm afraid human nature ( or a very large percentage of it ) will prevail and people will try and obtain something only at the price they are prepared to pay.
Otherwise they will not buy.
Professional use is ,of course, excepted on the basis that it's a business expense.
It's a tough world out there and whingeing and moralising is not going to cure the problem.
Finished now - keep smiling !!!!!!
PaulAr
S3 (8P)
Plainly I'm not influencing many people, but everything I've said WOULD stand up in court.
Installing the software, you agree to an EULA which is then broken.
Granted, the chance of being sued is low, but when the RIAA did sue, THEY were perceived as the bad guys... go figure.
Mock what I've written all you wish, but it's ALL perfectly accurate. -And Yes, passing on a web address for the purpose of assisting is -technically- conspiring to break the law.
Just because you don't see a victim doesn't make it any less true... -technically.
Keith
Installing the software, you agree to an EULA which is then broken.
Granted, the chance of being sued is low, but when the RIAA did sue, THEY were perceived as the bad guys... go figure.
Mock what I've written all you wish, but it's ALL perfectly accurate. -And Yes, passing on a web address for the purpose of assisting is -technically- conspiring to break the law.
Just because you don't see a victim doesn't make it any less true... -technically.
Keith
Sorry VWaddict, I didn't want to have to post a further comment but I feel I must given the nature of your reply.
Don't know whether being in over-litigious USA has clouded your judgment and I suppose it would help if I knew what EULA and RIAA meant (or cared ! ) but nobody is mocking what you have said and nobody is denying your accuracy.
My point, made simply, is ******** to the technicalities whatever they may be.
In the real world it doesn't work like that whether or not it should !
There is a way round it which I have already indicated and unless and until that is implemented then things will remain as they are and no amount of discussion will have any effect.
I'm sorry you feel you have to continue this line of argument and I'm sorry I had to make the point again, even more bluntly, but you really must accept that the chance of anyone actually trying to sue somebody is nil ( certainly in the UK ) .
The remedy is with Ross-tech
Cheers
Don't know whether being in over-litigious USA has clouded your judgment and I suppose it would help if I knew what EULA and RIAA meant (or cared ! ) but nobody is mocking what you have said and nobody is denying your accuracy.
My point, made simply, is ******** to the technicalities whatever they may be.
In the real world it doesn't work like that whether or not it should !
There is a way round it which I have already indicated and unless and until that is implemented then things will remain as they are and no amount of discussion will have any effect.
I'm sorry you feel you have to continue this line of argument and I'm sorry I had to make the point again, even more bluntly, but you really must accept that the chance of anyone actually trying to sue somebody is nil ( certainly in the UK ) .
The remedy is with Ross-tech
Cheers
EULA = End User License Agreement.
It's what you click on to accept and agree with the terms when you install the software.
You agree not to use the software without the license.
When you buy a cable from Ross tech, you get four things:
A cable
A license
The software
Support.
The lead may cost $2.50 ot $10 to make, -it really doesn't matter. You can buy whatever cable you wish, or you can built your own if you like, but you get no support, and no license to use the software.
Because the license is invisible and intangible, people tend to forget about it, but it's what you assent to when you install the software.
RIAA is the Recording Industry Association of America. I use them as a comparative example, because they rather heavy-handedly tried to sue when people started downloading music illegally.
I accept that the likelihood of being sued is prety much zero, and wrote that myself... I also added that it doesn't make it 'right'; it's still morally wrong, as well as technically illegal.
Ross-Tech DOES control the software in some form; specifically by building a 'key' into the lead. Third-party leads which enable the software are MORE than just functional leads, they have 'cracked' copy of the software 'key' in them.
THAT'S what makes it wrong.
There's NOTHING wrong with building your own cable, but you have to write software to go along with it. -I wholly applaud places like 'opendiag' which seek to make an open-source version for everyone to use, but I can't agree that someone in China blatantly cracking and copying a software key just so that they can make money selling illegal copies of that key.
THAT's the issue.
unfortunately people view the Ross-Tech product as JUST the cable, but it's a lot more than that.
Support and development are key.
Anyhow, I think I should probably give up. -I'm not changing anyone's appreciation apparently.
Keith
It's what you click on to accept and agree with the terms when you install the software.
You agree not to use the software without the license.
When you buy a cable from Ross tech, you get four things:
A cable
A license
The software
Support.
The lead may cost $2.50 ot $10 to make, -it really doesn't matter. You can buy whatever cable you wish, or you can built your own if you like, but you get no support, and no license to use the software.
Because the license is invisible and intangible, people tend to forget about it, but it's what you assent to when you install the software.
RIAA is the Recording Industry Association of America. I use them as a comparative example, because they rather heavy-handedly tried to sue when people started downloading music illegally.
I accept that the likelihood of being sued is prety much zero, and wrote that myself... I also added that it doesn't make it 'right'; it's still morally wrong, as well as technically illegal.
Ross-Tech DOES control the software in some form; specifically by building a 'key' into the lead. Third-party leads which enable the software are MORE than just functional leads, they have 'cracked' copy of the software 'key' in them.
THAT'S what makes it wrong.
There's NOTHING wrong with building your own cable, but you have to write software to go along with it. -I wholly applaud places like 'opendiag' which seek to make an open-source version for everyone to use, but I can't agree that someone in China blatantly cracking and copying a software key just so that they can make money selling illegal copies of that key.
THAT's the issue.
unfortunately people view the Ross-Tech product as JUST the cable, but it's a lot more than that.
Support and development are key.
Anyhow, I think I should probably give up. -I'm not changing anyone's appreciation apparently.
Keith
I 100% agree with you Keith and i brought the real thing...But i think the mistake is making the lead the key. some sort of security software would be better.
When i brought my lead i knew i wanted VCDS but didnt know what i was doing. The lead arrives in a plain box, no instructions or even an invoice. You dont even know where to download the software or the web site address or where the lead plugs in !!!. you pay your money and get a printer style lead....If like me you were expecting a software disc you think you have been done. with no instructions at all you dont even know you need to download software !! Even now i dont use it to its full potential because i havnt sussed out long coding and the website is a mess. The only time i tried to get help the y couldnt answer my question...
When i brought my lead i knew i wanted VCDS but didnt know what i was doing. The lead arrives in a plain box, no instructions or even an invoice. You dont even know where to download the software or the web site address or where the lead plugs in !!!. you pay your money and get a printer style lead....If like me you were expecting a software disc you think you have been done. with no instructions at all you dont even know you need to download software !! Even now i dont use it to its full potential because i havnt sussed out long coding and the website is a mess. The only time i tried to get help the y couldnt answer my question...
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I got the cable (complete with nice little red LED), software disc, instructions and an invoice with mine.
And they're a UK seller. Didn 't even realise there was a place in the UK called Shenzhen.
So, VCDS and geography lesson for under £25. Bargain.
But on a serious note (yes I can do serious), I can fully appreciate why people chose to pay a couple of hundred for a cable and I don't class them as nutters for doing so. Just wish that some people would get off their high horses and stop banging on about how "immoral" and "out of order" and "criminal" and (seriousness ends here) "how can you look at yourself in the mirror" or "sleep at night" knowing that you've obtained a cable from cheap and "illegal" sources.
And what makes me laugh even more is that some of the people on here who come down on others about fake cables have openly admitted stealing or being tempted to steal parts from courtesy cars they've had!!
Which conveniently gets me back to my original point, which was apparently missed.
And they're a UK seller. Didn 't even realise there was a place in the UK called Shenzhen.
So, VCDS and geography lesson for under £25. Bargain.
But on a serious note (yes I can do serious), I can fully appreciate why people chose to pay a couple of hundred for a cable and I don't class them as nutters for doing so. Just wish that some people would get off their high horses and stop banging on about how "immoral" and "out of order" and "criminal" and (seriousness ends here) "how can you look at yourself in the mirror" or "sleep at night" knowing that you've obtained a cable from cheap and "illegal" sources.
And what makes me laugh even more is that some of the people on here who come down on others about fake cables have openly admitted stealing or being tempted to steal parts from courtesy cars they've had!!
Which conveniently gets me back to my original point, which was apparently missed.
a3_dan
Registered User
aythreee said:And what makes me laugh even more is that some of the people on here who come down on others about fake cables have openly admitted stealing or being tempted to steal parts from courtesy cars they've had!!
Which conveniently gets me back to my original point, which was apparently missed.
Haha that bit about the courtesy car made me laugh! And so true!
Where did you get the cable for £25 from then ? After all I think that was the point of this threadI got the cable (complete with nice little red LED), software disc, instructions and an invoice with mine.
And they're a UK seller. Didn 't even realise there was a place in the UK called Shenzhen.
So, VCDS and geography lesson for under £25. Bargain.
But on a serious note (yes I can do serious), I can fully appreciate why people chose to pay a couple of hundred for a cable and I don't class them as nutters for doing so. Just wish that some people would get off their high horses and stop banging on about how "immoral" and "out of order" and "criminal" and (seriousness ends here) "how can you look at yourself in the mirror" or "sleep at night" knowing that you've obtained a cable from cheap and "illegal" sources.
And what makes me laugh even more is that some of the people on here who come down on others about fake cables have openly admitted stealing or being tempted to steal parts from courtesy cars they've had!!
Which conveniently gets me back to my original point, which was apparently missed.
Oh, I dunno, I think that post number 32 contains a couple of examples of 'mockery'. The latter half of post number 17 is positively laden with it, the way I read.
