Does this determine the RS3 is defo on its way!!

Dont be daft. Are you saying that Audi perfected an engine that puts out 450bhp and then de tuned it for no reason at all by 130bhp ?? Its all about reliability, something audi are not good at if you have ever owned a Diesel A3 3.2 A3 A6 and so on..
Click to expand...

Its also because Audi doesnt want to make the car daft. Not everyone wants a hatchback with 450 bhp and most would be happy with it in stock form. Me on the other hand is happy with being scared s***less.

no im not saying Audi perfected an engine that puts out 450bhp. im saying you hardly have to 'knock the engine in half' as you say to get another 100 ish bhp out of it. All turbo engine have a lot of extra potential that can be unlocked with a remap- which we all know, and then more so from improving gas flow- intake /TBE /IC , and fueling- fuel pump/injectors.
Its pretty easy to get 360 bhp out of the KO4 2.0T, which no major hardware mods -pistons/rods /turbo/ injectors are all the same.

There no reason you couldnt get 450bhp out of the 2.5 RS engine with standard internals - ie without 'knocking the engine in half' .
How many people on here with Stg2 or stg2+ have engine problems related to tuning? Pretty much none. I dont have any either.
All of the problems with the cars you mentioned can happen to any car and none of them are really tuning related.
Your timing chains, or cracked heads on 2.0PDs, or faulty N75s etc.
Click to expand...

I agree, yes yes there has been a few teething problems with tuning (misfire etc) but in the end you get a huge increase in performance for not that much money.
 
paddy said:
LOL.. but to be honest it needs the V6 turbo out of the S4 :yes:

Waring...your talking about 120bhp more out of that engine if its the TTRS lump and i cant see thesense in paying probably £42-£45k for a new car and then knocking its engine life in half.
Click to expand...

Also not meaning to pick on you, but to prove you wrong again and re-iterate my point:

Many of the S3 owners on here have spent well over £30k on their cars which although is not 42k is still a lot. And many of these have spent a good couple of grand tuning their cars, and if you were look on many other forums, or meet other car enthusiasts, there are many other owners of expensive cars who have spent money on them tuning further despite having bought an expensive car.
go to a 1/4 mile or track day and you will see plenty of expensive 911 turbos, AMG Kompressors, to Nissan GTRs where all the owners have modified them.

And changing a few pipes that go in and out of and engine, some software recalibration, again, is hardly knocking it in half.
 
paddy said:
Dont be daft. Are you saying that Audi perfected an engine that puts out 450bhp and then de tuned it for no reason at all by 130bhp ?? Its all about reliability, something audi are not good at if you have ever owned a Diesel A3 3.2 A3 A6 and so on..
Click to expand...

As most others here have already said,it's actually relatively easy to get the extra power from the 2L S3 engine,but the mods need to be done sensibly,and the costs do rise when you get above 330bhp.
The block itself has been proven to well over 400bhp,and providing you use higher strength rods,low compression pistons,and uprated head bolts,then even that can be reliable.

Many of us have driven engines uprated to over twice their original power with no reliability problems over several tens of thousands of miles.

Do the work properly,attend to cooling as well,and the engine will last...do it on the cheap and it won't.
 
paddy said:
Dont be daft. Are you saying that Audi perfected an engine that puts out 450bhp and then de tuned it for no reason at all by 130bhp ?? Its all about reliability, something audi are not good at if you have ever owned a Diesel A3 3.2 A3 A6 and so on..
Click to expand...

I think what people are saying is, VAG being VAG, their engines tend to be under stressed items in stock trim. Plus, they develop these cars to work in so many countries to cope with all sorts of climate and fuel quality.
So you can improve performance of the car if your sensible without impacting reliability. Look at Audi's TDi range of engines... 140 or 170.. what's the actual mechanical difference?
There are already rumours surfacing on further states of tune on the 2.5 lump from the TT going in other models with 410bhp.... I'm pretty sure it'll be the same motor just mapped differently.
 
Ive ran my S3 for 2/ 1/2 yrs and the only `reliability` issues Ive had is a new glove box cover.

Could that be the REVO Remap ?

Pad- You could be onto something here mate......:idea:

cheers
Paul
 
akash_sky1 said:
Also not meaning to pick on you, but to prove you wrong again and re-iterate my point:

Many of the S3 owners on here have spent well over £30k on their cars which although is not 42k is still a lot. And many of these have spent a good couple of grand tuning their cars, and if you were look on many other forums, or meet other car enthusiasts, there are many other owners of expensive cars who have spent money on them tuning further despite having bought an expensive car.
go to a 1/4 mile or track day and you will see plenty of expensive 911 turbos, AMG Kompressors, to Nissan GTRs where all the owners have modified them.

And changing a few pipes that go in and out of and engine, some software recalibration, again, is hardly knocking it in half.
Click to expand...

TBH new for new, I think if they are selling RS3 for starting at £38k, it is pretty cheap as to get an S3 same spec to 400 BHP it is gonna cost you more, and still then I bet it will not have the low down pull grunt of an RS3

As I said I would be very interested in an RS3, for that price, low down Grunt, and as long it returns around 30 mpg on a day to day basis in normal driving conditions.
 
paddy said:
If you want 450 bhp your looking at the wrong car mate.

My impression ?? Looks like an S3 with a different bumper to me. you would have to be stark raving bonkers to spend £40+ on that !!. It looks about as sporty as a breeze block...and an estate breeze block at that. At least the TTRS has the looks even if its still just a souped up TT.
I cant believe Audi will launch a RS3 at this late stage based on this 7/8 year old chassis and interior.
Click to expand...

Most if not all RS models get launched at the end of the models life going by the RS4's and 6's of the past....
 
Roswell said:
Not so true nowadays.

Both the TTRS and RS5 are out and are not near the end of the models' lifespans.
Click to expand...

Only because Audi, in order to compete with BMW are introducing RS models on the standard cars production line (rather than going to Quattro GMBH for completion as per all previous RS cars)
The TT was the first one, the RS3 will be the second.
The top end RS cars, like the RS5, will continue to be completed by Quattro GMBH
 
Roswell said:
And the RS5 is not at the end of the model's lifespan, which is the point I was making.
Click to expand...

It's hardly new though is it?
4 years old...
I just don't think the RS3 is coming on the new platform. Without a shadow of a doubt IF it comes it's on the 8P.
 
I know...it's a big IF though as you say. I wish they would hurry up and decide as I am thinking of ordering up a new S4......but MAY be tempted by an RS3 Sportback :)
 
Roswell said:
I know...it's a big IF though as you say. I wish they would hurry up and decide as I am thinking of ordering up a new S4......but MAY be tempted by an RS3 Sportback :)
Click to expand...

Yeah I toyed with the S4, but its a very VERY big car... too big for my needs
 
I would have thought the S5 would be preferable to the S4 over an RS3.
 
Haz1 said:
I found these articles:

http://carsspyphotos.com/2011-audi-rs3-spy/#more-2809

http://carsspyphotos.com/new-audi-rs3-spec-feature/

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Audi-A3/250647/

Here are the pics:

2011-audi-rs3.jpg


audi-rs3.jpg


audi-rs3-2011.jpg


new-audi-rs3.jpg


2011-audi-rs3-spy.jpg


2011-audi-rs3-closeup.jpg


2011-audi-rs3-nurburgring.jpg


2011-audi-rs3-air-brake.jpg


audi-rs3-retractable-rear-spoiler.jpg


Do you think this is it, the RS3 will be comin soon and with a retractable spolier!! :jump:
Click to expand...

I doubt very much thats an Rs3 being tested.It has no ingolstadt plates & It would have more camaflage around the body,like this:
1736811683776259906.jpg


Its more likely some tuning company like MTM etc road testing tuning options for the S3
 
Last edited:
audi upgrades
Jamiekip said:
It's hardly new though is it?
4 years old...
I just don't think the RS3 is coming on the new platform. Without a shadow of a doubt IF it comes it's on the 8P.
Click to expand...

Agree with that. There is no way Audi will launch a car like the RS3 so early in a new platform production...
 
Jamiekip said:
It's hardly new though is it?
4 years old...
I just don't think the RS3 is coming on the new platform. Without a shadow of a doubt IF it comes it's on the 8P.
Click to expand...

I think your being generous at only 4 years, i mean the S3 was hardly a new platform in 06/07.
 
paddy said:
I think your being generous at only 4 years, i mean the S3 was hardly a new platform in 06/07.
Click to expand...

he was talking about the TT.
No offence Paddy but your comments re tuning and reliability, tuning in general and on the RS3 coming out on the 8P chassis do highlight a lack of knowledge about Audi and cars overall.
 
Every post on this thread is guess work at the moment so how could you posibly say that the comments below demonstrate a lack of Audi or car knowledge?! Noone knows if it's an RS3 on 8p or new chasis or whethere it the new Audi A3 platform being tested or maybe as also mentioned a tuning company testing bits! Even the car mags don't have a clue so I guess only time will tell!
 
The only reason some companies camo their cars is because its a brand new model and don't want to ruin the launch of the car. They tested the TTRS like this too. Wacked on that RS front bumper and kept the TTs badges on but you could just tell it was a upcoming RS model. I think they always phase out a model with the RS. Like somebody said above, during the end of the model's lifespan they "RS" it up :)
 
remslie20 said:
Every post on this thread is guess work at the moment so how could you posibly say that the comments below demonstrate a lack of Audi or car knowledge?! Noone knows if it's an RS3 on 8p or new chasis or whethere it the new Audi A3 platform being tested or maybe as also mentioned a tuning company testing bits! Even the car mags don't have a clue so I guess only time will tell!
Click to expand...

I was referring to him overlooking that many recent and past RS models come out during the middle or end of the chassis life span, lack knowledge about the relative ease of tuning turbos without significant hardware changes ( when it was said you'd have to 'knock the engine in half ) and saying that tuned VAG cars suffer from reliability problems, where in reality barely anyone on here or that ive met with tuned VAGs and 2.0TFSIs in particular have any reliability problems related to tuning, and that common issues affect standard cars exactly the same.
 
I've realised that the front arches are definitely wider then a standard s3. Im I right or is it just optical illusion, here's a few pics for comparison:

S3

AUDI_S3_51459_20080404_l.jpg


RS3

Audi-RS3-001_10622195318.JPG


Audi-RS3-002_10622195318.JPG


Audi-RS3-004_10622195320.JPG


Audi-RS3-005_10622195321.JPG
 
akash_sky1 said:
he was talking about the TT.
No offence Paddy but your comments re tuning and reliability, tuning in general and on the RS3 coming out on the 8P chassis do highlight a lack of knowledge about Audi and cars overall.
Click to expand...

Actually i was most probably tuning cars and motorcycles long before you were even born. If you really think that tuning a Turbo by turning the boost up dosnt shorten its engine life you are in for a surprise. you turn up the boost you turn up the CR and that loads the small ends/big ends/mains and crank thrusts. it will also load up the clutch and box. If your lucky your driveshafts and Diff will cope but don't try and tell me turning a TTRS lump up to 450bhp will not knock your engine life for six. I speak as a production design engineer with a degree in Mechanical engineering which includes endless hours of stress testing and shear testing . Not to mention 35 years in the business and 15 years of building race motorcycle engines.
No offence to you either but looking at your sig......if your idea of tuning is a few off the shelf mods, alu roof rails and some different wheels then sorry but i dont even know why I am replying to you !!
When you have gas-flowed a few heads buy hand, cut in bigger valve seats, altered squish areas to suit octain and had proven results on a flow meter. When you have stripped 50 engines and carefully weighed every moving part to ensure perfect balance you might then begin to realise that remapping is about as far removed from tuning an engine as you can get..

As for Audi lifting flagging sales of an old design by mixing up the TTRS and 8p parts bin...... Manufacturers have been doing that for years at the end of a models life.
 
something for you to think about
The 2.4 V6 Audi lump puts out 175bhp
The V8 in the R8 produces 414bhp

and you think 450bhp from a 2.5l 5cyl is fine ?? Well stupid Audi for developing that The V8 4.2-litre FSI engine...Akash had the answer all along in his little 2ltr A3 estate.
 
paddy said:
Actually i was most probably tuning cars and motorcycles long before you were even born. If you really think that tuning a Turbo by turning the boost up dosnt shorten its engine life you are in for a surprise. you turn up the boost you turn up the CR and that loads the small ends/big ends/mains and crank thrusts. it will also load up the clutch and box. If your lucky your driveshafts and Diff will cope but don't try and tell me turning a TTRS lump up to 450bhp will not knock your engine life for six. I speak as a production design engineer with a degree in Mechanical engineering which includes endless hours of stress testing and shear testing . Not to mention 35 years in the business and 15 years of building race motorcycle engines.
No offence to you either but looking at your sig......if your idea of tuning is a few off the shelf mods, alu roof rails and some different wheels then sorry but i dont even know why I am replying to you !!
When you have gas-flowed a few heads buy hand, cut in bigger valve seats, altered squish areas to suit octain and had proven results on a flow meter. When you have stripped 50 engines and carefully weighed every moving part to ensure perfect balance you might then begin to realise that remapping is about as far removed from tuning an engine as you can get..

As for Audi lifting flagging sales of an old design by mixing up the TTRS and 8p parts bin...... Manufacturers have been doing that for years at the end of a models life.
Click to expand...

Fair enough you clearly have a lot of experience there..thats not my idea of serious tuning just what I have done to the second car i have ever owned/ or what was on the car. If I had the time/money atm I would go BT with strengthened internals without a shadow of a doubt.

You have to admit though hardly any of the reliability issues reported here are due to tuning that owners have done. Re the RS3 comment I was saying that because you seemed doubtful it was going to be an 8P chassis if I read you correctly, which it almost certainly will.
But respect for all that mech. engineering .
 
paddy said:
Actually i was most probably tuning cars and motorcycles long before you were even born. If you really think that tuning a Turbo by turning the boost up dosnt shorten its engine life you are in for a surprise. you turn up the boost you turn up the CR and that loads the small ends/big ends/mains and crank thrusts. it will also load up the clutch and box. If your lucky your driveshafts and Diff will cope but don't try and tell me turning a TTRS lump up to 450bhp will not knock your engine life for six. I speak as a production design engineer with a degree in Mechanical engineering which includes endless hours of stress testing and shear testing . Not to mention 35 years in the business and 15 years of building race motorcycle engines.
No offence to you either but looking at your sig......if your idea of tuning is a few off the shelf mods, alu roof rails and some different wheels then sorry but i dont even know why I am replying to you !!
When you have gas-flowed a few heads buy hand, cut in bigger valve seats, altered squish areas to suit octain and had proven results on a flow meter. When you have stripped 50 engines and carefully weighed every moving part to ensure perfect balance you might then begin to realise that remapping is about as far removed from tuning an engine as you can get..

As for Audi lifting flagging sales of an old design by mixing up the TTRS and 8p parts bin...... Manufacturers have been doing that for years at the end of a models life.
Click to expand...

All of which I agree with,which is why in my post on this subject,I mentioned lowering the compression ratio once the boost had been raised significantly,and especially with larger turbos being fitted,plus uprated rods,head bolts and cooling.

I would also add that the engines I had to this sort of spec(built by an engineer with similar attention to detail as yourself) were totally reliable over a very long period,and even the crank showed tiny amounts of wear at 40,000 miles when it was replaced with a balanced lightened replacement.

We've all seen what happens when corners are cut,and holed pistons are only the start.
 
Last edited:
paddy said:
something for you to think about
The 2.4 V6 Audi lump puts out 175bhp
The V8 in the R8 produces 414bhp

and you think 450bhp from a 2.5l 5cyl is fine ?? Well stupid Audi for developing that The V8 4.2-litre FSI engine...Akash had the answer all along in his little 2ltr A3 estate.
Click to expand...

Sorry I now know you have some engineering experience but just because Audi's 2.4 V6 puts out only 175bhp doesnt mean a 2.5 that puts out 350 ish bhp in standard form ( or 450) tuned is running at near death limits.
Just because the capacity of two engines is similar doesnt mean one with a lot more power is a lot more stressed- the internals of the 2.5 RS are obviously leagues stronger than those of the V6 which is not even intended as a performance engine. the block of the 2.5 RS is made of vernicular-graphite cast iron which is the first engine to use such material. Just because the capacities are similar between two engines the internals are not and obviously the forces they can handle are completely different so the relative stress they are under could be the same even if one engine ie the TT-RS develops much more power from the same size.

For an engineer I think your comparison is somewhat irrelevant.
 
No my point is that Audi put a 175bhp low stressed engine in an A6 like that because it will do 200,000 miles if looked after.
We shall have to agree to differ if you think you can up the output from a already class leading engine by 30% + with a simple remap without any detrimental effects on engine life. Not a problem if done properly inc balance and maybe dwell angles on cams, perhaps even some lightening of moving parts and some flowing but there is a very good reason why the TTRS engine leaves the factory at 320ish bhp and not 450bhp. Mass produced engines are not all equal, tolerances are not that fine, This is why balancing and fine tuning can pay dividends. i have to wonder when people on here say they run stage 2 for 20k miles and have had no problems......come back at 100k miles or ten years because that is half the lifetime of a modern engine.
Maybe take a look at the photography thread "new engine" and then wonder why people do that if 450bhp was easily and reliable obtainable from a std production 2.4l engine.

as an aside the 3.2 V6 is the basis for the V8 RS4/R8 engine...not that i know anything about audis ;-)
 
If you like engines then this might interest you from my workshop.
Desmo900.jpg


This is a bevel driven cam engine, A Ducati 900 SS. The overhead cams are driven by a geared bevel drive system as you can see. The engine has no cam chains or belts or valve springs, instead the valves are mechanically opened and closed with opening and closing rockers running of the single cam. this means however fast this engine revs, valve bounce is imposable :)) a huge advantage in tuning. Valve springs eat power. With the plugs out you can spin this engine with 2 fingers as there is no resistance in the valve train. Shimming is critical because a thou or so out and the valve will not shut....
 
thats a nice little motor there..yes engineers have taken the conventional piston engine do far but its amazing how something so relatively inefficient and with so many parts to go wrong has been kept in mainstream use for so long. 10 years ago i read about someone experimenting using solenoids to operate the valves elimnating the valvetrain drag like in the motor up there. but there there problem was generating enough power to operate the system.

Fair enough after high miles a stage 2+ would have probably have more wear on certain components but these could well be within what was acceptible for that mileage and some poorly maintained cars/roughly driven could exhibit the same problems.
9/10 people who mod there cars to that extent will look after them meticulously to avoid these problems, but since most peoeple get bored after 20k miles of their tuned motor very long term issues dont bother them.
 
akash_sky1 said:
Fair enough after high miles a stage 2+ would have probably have more wear on certain components but these could well be within what was acceptible for that mileage and some poorly maintained cars/roughly driven could exhibit the same problems.
9/10 people who mod there cars to that extent will look after them meticulously to avoid these problems, but since most peoeple get bored after 20k miles of their tuned motor very long term issues dont bother them.
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
paddy said:
Actually i was most probably tuning cars and motorcycles long before you were even born. If you really think that tuning a Turbo by turning the boost up dosnt shorten its engine life you are in for a surprise. you turn up the boost you turn up the CR and that loads the small ends/big ends/mains and crank thrusts. it will also load up the clutch and box. If your lucky your driveshafts and Diff will cope but don't try and tell me turning a TTRS lump up to 450bhp will not knock your engine life for six. I speak as a production design engineer with a degree in Mechanical engineering which includes endless hours of stress testing and shear testing . Not to mention 35 years in the business and 15 years of building race motorcycle engines.
No offence to you either but looking at your sig......if your idea of tuning is a few off the shelf mods, alu roof rails and some different wheels then sorry but i dont even know why I am replying to you !!
When you have gas-flowed a few heads buy hand, cut in bigger valve seats, altered squish areas to suit octain and had proven results on a flow meter. When you have stripped 50 engines and carefully weighed every moving part to ensure perfect balance you might then begin to realise that remapping is about as far removed from tuning an engine as you can get..

As for Audi lifting flagging sales of an old design by mixing up the TTRS and 8p parts bin...... Manufacturers have been doing that for years at the end of a models life.
Click to expand...

Proof you can know your **** and still be a cynical old ******:thumbsup:
 
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