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  1. #1
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    Audi A3 - cluster swap, now won't start, help!

    Hi.

    So I decided I hated my dead DIS in my 2000 A3 1.8TQS, and bought a 'new' dash from ebay, I think it's an exchange dealer one possibly. It was zero miles.

    I have the SKC for both new and old clusers.

    I transferred the soft coding from the old cluster, and set the mileage fine. I coded the keys fine. This is using my newly registered VCDS.

    I try and start the car and it dies after 1 second, the engine then shows DTC 17978, start blocked by immobiliser.

    I have followed the Ross-Tech instructions on how to swap an Immo 2 cluster including the adaptions - 00 - read - save, bit to match to the ECU. I've done this several times but with no luck. The cluster is happy with the keys so it's something else. I did wonder if the new dash somehow was IMMO 3, so tried to access channel 050 after entering the PIN to see if it would pull the VIN etc. but it said 'channel not available' so i'm pretty sure it's Immo 2. I've disconnected the battery as suggested somewhere else to reset everything, no luck. The battery voltage has been fine, it was on a charger at the time.

    I have put the old cluster back, coded the key, and it starts fine - it's running outside now!

    The only difference I can see is in the old cluster 'extra' field has some funny symbols like it's misread the data followed by the Immo ID. The new one has XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX followed by an Immo ID.

    Help! Why won't it start, the immobiliser doesn't like 'something' - but what? It's not the keys and the immobiliser light isn't on.

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  3. #2
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    Mate your best bet is to give RT a call directly as I feel you may have just used an incorrect process thats all chap, but for the record, whats your old cluster & new cluster part numbers?

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  4. #3
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    If you are a registered customer please send us both complete Auto-Scans, one with each cluster installed. If you aren't registered, or don't feel like waiting until Monday post it here.

    I'd also recommend looking at the Adaptation channels in each cluster, specifically Channel 60 if it's available in either unit. The easiest way to evaluate all of the channels is to run a control module channel map as explained here:

    Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour: Controller Channels Map

    [Applications]
    [Controller Channels Map]
    Address: 17
    Function: Adaptation
    Login: The actual PIN from the installed cluster
    Output: Pre-Label File
    [Go]

    These pages are still a work in progress on the Wiki, but the Golf Mk4 page explains the Extra field:
    VW Golf/Jetta/Bora (1J/9M) Immobilizer - Ross-Tech Wiki

    Some Immo 2/3 clusters on the early Audi's actually supported both setups and the Coding or Adaptation needed configured properly.

  5. #4
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    Thanks for the reply Dana I shall run a complete scan when I get the chance, but I just started work! I am a registered user, if I get it done quick enough I'll post it here though - it might help someone else too.

    Your new page about the golf cluster is very informative as it explains the XXXX's in the extra field. It does indeed appear that it's not associated properly, most of the guides I have found do relate to VW's so perhaps this is as you say an odd Audi cluster.

  6. #5
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    Finally, here are the scans with the old cluster installed:

    VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
    Saturday, 12 February 2011, 21:33:07:18844

    Chassis Type: 8L - Audi A3/S3
    Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,16,17,22,35,37,45,55,56,57,75,76

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AJQ.LBL
    Controller: 06A 906 032 R
    Component: 1.8L R4/5VT 0004
    Coding: 05600
    Shop #: WSC 00586
    VCID: 2D2DC32BF41F
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0000 0000
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.LBL
    Controller: 1J0 907 379 AG
    Component: ABS/EDS 20 IE CAN V009
    Coding: 13504
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 769F2C4741C9
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 820 0 
    VCID: AD2D432B741F
    Note: Excessive Comm Errors
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8L0-959-655-AI8.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 959 655 G
    Component: Airbag Front+Seite 1008
    Coding: 01104
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 42F780975D81
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8L0-920-xxx-17.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 920 980 C
    Component: AB-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D09
    Coding: 05444
    Shop #: WSC 00586
    VCID: 3319D553123B
     AUZ7Z0X1269371
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 22: AWD Labels: 02D-900-554.LBL
    Controller: 02D 900 554 B
    Component: HALDEX LSC ECC 0006
    VCID: 1F3129E38EB3
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 862 257 P
    Component: CV-Pump, Alarm, RC D13
    Coding: 13166
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 42F780975D81
    5 Faults Found:
    01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak)
    35-00 - -
    01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
    35-00 - -
    01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
    35-00 - -
    00955 - Key 1
    09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
    00956 - Key 2
    09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.LBL
    Controller: 4B0 951 173
    Component: Innenraumueberw. D03
    Coding: 00001
    Shop #: WSC 00005
    VCID: E0B3EA1F734D
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.LBL
    Controller: 4B0 035 186
    Component: Radio 0001
    Coding: 00407
    Shop #: WSC 00000
    VCID: DDCDD3EB443F
    1 Fault Found:
    01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
    35-00 - -
    End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






    And the new cluster installed:

    VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
    Saturday, 12 February 2011, 21:44:50:18844

    Chassis Type: 8L - Audi A3/S3
    Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,16,17,22,35,37,45,55,56,57,75,76

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AJQ.LBL
    Controller: 06A 906 032 R
    Component: 1.8L R4/5VT 0004
    Coding: 05600
    Shop #: WSC 00586
    VCID: 2D2DC32BF41F
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0000 0000
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.LBL
    Controller: 1J0 907 379 AG
    Component: ABS/EDS 20 IE CAN V009
    Coding: 13504
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 769F2C4741C9
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8L0-820-043-2D.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 820 043 M
    Component: A3 KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT_D77
    Coding: 03141
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 3217D057ED21
    Note: Excessive Comm Errors
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8L0-959-655-AI8.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 959 655 G
    Component: Airbag Front+Seite 1008
    Coding: 01104
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 42F780975D81
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8L0-920-xxx-17.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 920 980 EX
    Component: AB-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D12
    Coding: 05444
    Shop #: WSC 00050
    VCID: 8D6DE3ABD45F
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX AUZ7Z0Y1572848
    1 Fault Found:
    01176 - Key
    65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 22: AWD Labels: 02D-900-554.LBL
    Controller: 02D 900 554 B
    Component: HALDEX LSC ECC 0006
    VCID: 1F3129E38EB3
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.LBL
    Controller: 8L0 862 257 P
    Component: CV-Pump, Alarm, RC D13
    Coding: 13166
    Shop #: WSC 06435
    VCID: 42F780975D81
    5 Faults Found:
    01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak)
    35-00 - -
    01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
    35-00 - -
    01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
    35-00 - -
    00955 - Key 1
    09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
    00956 - Key 2
    09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.LBL
    Controller: 4B0 951 173
    Component: Innenraumueberw. D03
    Coding: 00001
    Shop #: WSC 00005
    VCID: E0B3EA1F734D
    No fault code found.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.LBL
    Controller: 4B0 035 186
    Component: Radio 0001
    Coding: 00407
    Shop #: WSC 00000
    VCID: DDCDD3EB443F
    1 Fault Found:
    01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
    35-00 - -
    End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    The new one shows an unauthorised key in the cluster DTC's. This was cleared by simply telling the cluster via adaption 024 that it had a new key. I have to do it when refitting the old cluster too because otherwise when I reinstall it doesn't recognise the key. I should have run the auto scan after telling the new one about the key I suppose.

    I also tried to look at adaption channel 060 (what is that?). The old one said it wasn't available. The new one returned a value of 1025.

  7. #6
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    Dana,

    As you suggested I have chenged the adption channel 060 in the new cluster to 0. Closed the controller, turned off ignition, back on then used the immo 2 instructions for ecu and key matching. It still doesn't start with exactly the same issue, the ECU thinks the immobiliser is blocking it, but the cluster doesn't report any errors.

    The new one doesn't have channel 050 like the Immo 3 instructions say, so I can't try those instructions. And many of the VW forums say immo 3 cluster work in immo 2 cars, but they have CAN? I don't really know what that is.

    The part number shows a match for A3 97-03, however I have just noticed a separate part # ending in GX, not EX, for the AJQ engine code, which is what I have. I thought it was a coding issue, the different part numbers and with the right software they could be recoded. Hope so!

  8. #7
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    That's a bummer...this cluster may not be compatible. Did you try the Immo 2 instructions, but doing the Login with the PIN first?

  9. #8
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    Hi again,

    I've had another go, i've tried following the Immo 2 instructions by logging in first, doing the steps in different orders, by turning ignition off afterwards, by NOT turning it off afterwards....I cleared the engine DTC then tried as well. I left the igntion on for 45 minutes after trying and failing to start it (heard it can work). I can't think of anything else to try. I can only assume the ECU and the cluster aren't talking?

    I did find a post from someone saying some 1.8T engine ECU's are odd and you can manually run some wires between it and the cluster to simulate the CAN bus or something, but there was no elabroation on that.

    I'm at a loss to work out the problem myself, and quite out of pocket too!

  10. #9
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    I have read on a forum recently that a piece of diagnostic kit called Autologic can programme VAG control units, keys & immobilisers.
    I think it may only be used by the garage trade though as it's very expensive to buy, if you can find a local garage with this equipment they may be able to help. But probably not if you have bought an incompatible dash.

    Where are you in the country??

    Bob

  11. #10
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    The "funny"symbols means that your car's instrument cluster has been "adjusted" at some point with specialised equipment. There is obviously a problem if you cannot programm your new cluster. Does your old cluster and new one look the same and have the same part number ? If they do and the pin key is good you should have no problem adapting the new ecu to the car. Are you using 0 before the 4 digits pin?
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  12. #11
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    Bob, i'm in Kent and no local or not-so-local garages could help or even knew what I was trying to do. That includes the 'specialist' electrical and ECU ones.

    adamss24 - Interesting about the symbols. The part numbers are original 8L0 920 980 C and new one 8L0 920 980 EX. Phsyically they completely identical. I didn't think any clusters were going to be incompatible with the ecu so figured it should work despite the different suffix. Yup been using the '0', logs in fine, if I do that wrong or forget to login I can't adapt the keys so I know that works OK.

    Stupid things. Why is nothing ever easy?

 

 

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