Volks AutosBadger5
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    131

    Is remapping so difficult?

    Hi
    Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on any points.
    My question is does remapping justify the high cost?
    Mainly taking about generic maps here. If performance centre 'a' downloads my map from my ecu and replaces it wth a generic map surely that can't be so difficult? It is does via a diagnostic port on most cars nowadays isn't it?
    I understand the research thats gone into making the map in the first place but surely once its done thats it? Bear in mind I'm not talking about rolling roading it and tweaking it like a custom map.
    This isnt a go at performance centres or anything like that just really want to know why the average man in the street (whos computer literate) cant do it himself. Bluefin is a way of doing this (and the man in the street can do that), so why not just a generic map via leads but with no handset?
    Ta
    Johny

  2. # ADS
    ADS
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many
     
  3. #2
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    113
    I agree, it seems alot of money for a generic map, especially ones that are done through the OBD port, would be nice if you could buy a kit with the map and the cable so that you could do it yourself.
    I know I could for sure.

  4. #3
    Gti Jazz Blue's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    1,654
    R & D cost and Technical Staff cost will be the greatest overhead I would imagine.
    2011 (MY12) Skoda Octavia II FL VRS Manual Hatch 2.0Tsi in Race Blue.
    Gone not forgotten -
    2005 Black A3 (8P1) S-Line 2.0TDi DSG. Eibach Pro Springs, Koni FSD shocks and a few bling bits inside.
    Revo 99 GTi Turbo, too much to list mod wise.
    92 Golf Gti Mark 2 16V.

    VCDS HEX-USB+CAN

  5. #4
    D-Tech Performance's Avatar
    D-Tech Performance - Dom

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Huddersfield, W.Yorks
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by Gti Jazz Blue
    R & D cost and Technical Staff cost will be the greatest overhead I would imagine.
    bingo.. files cost money mate as does the software and technology to develop... each new ecu presents a challenge...

    the actual upload to the obd port is the easy part its the work thats gone in before that stage that you are paying for...

    the hardware isnt cheap either...

    you are also paying for the technical back up and the after sales service

    hth
    Last edited by D-Tech Performance; 23rd July 2007 at 10:47.


  6. #5
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,488
    yes, you can buy a ODB flashing kit off ebay cheap.
    yes, you can get generic maps off ebay/internet.
    yes, it would initially be cheaper than paying a tuner.
    yes you could re-map all your mates cars.

    However, some of the maps you see on the internet are stolen and unencrypted maps. Others are simply not the maps that they are said to be. Additionally, theres ALWAYS a chance of you permanently breaking your ECU with a bad flash too, even by professional tuners. The difference is that (truely) professional tuners have the experience, equipment and legal obligation to provide the service that you are paying for, and more importantly fix it if it goes wrong. That costs.

    Theres nothing stopping you developing your own ECU maps though. To truly understand and get the best from the map you're putting on your car, you have to have have some very fancy software - and that costs thousands of pounds. You need to see the full 3D picture of the map you're uploading, and understand the effects of the values you're changing. Once, you've paid for your software and equipment, I can guarantee you wouldn't want to give away your map for free..


  7. #6
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    113
    think that just about wraps it up

  8. #7
    D-Tech Performance's Avatar
    D-Tech Performance - Dom

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Huddersfield, W.Yorks
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by madvw
    yes, you can buy a ODB flashing kit off ebay cheap.
    yes, you can get generic maps off ebay/internet.
    yes, it would initially be cheaper than paying a tuner.
    yes you could re-map all your mates cars.

    However, some of the maps you see on the internet are stolen and unencrypted maps. Others are simply not the maps that they are said to be. Additionally, theres ALWAYS a chance of you permanently breaking your ECU with a bad flash too, even by professional tuners. The difference is that (truely) professional tuners have the experience, equipment and legal obligation to provide the service that you are paying for, and more importantly fix it if it goes wrong. That costs.

    Theres nothing stopping you developing your own ECU maps though. To truly understand and get the best from the map you're putting on your car, you have to have have some very fancy software - and that costs thousands of pounds. You need to see the full 3D picture of the map you're uploading, and understand the effects of the values you're changing. Once, you've paid for your software and equipment, I can guarantee you wouldn't want to give away your map for free..
    absolutely hit the nail on the head.....


  9. #8
    mephisto's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    192
    Quote Originally Posted by madvw
    yes, you can buy a ODB flashing kit off ebay cheap.
    yes, you can get generic maps off ebay/internet.
    yes, it would initially be cheaper than paying a tuner.
    yes you could re-map all your mates cars.

    However, some of the maps you see on the internet are stolen and unencrypted maps. Others are simply not the maps that they are said to be. Additionally, theres ALWAYS a chance of you permanently breaking your ECU with a bad flash too, even by professional tuners. The difference is that (truely) professional tuners have the experience, equipment and legal obligation to provide the service that you are paying for, and more importantly fix it if it goes wrong. That costs.

    Theres nothing stopping you developing your own ECU maps though. To truly understand and get the best from the map you're putting on your car, you have to have have some very fancy software - and that costs thousands of pounds. You need to see the full 3D picture of the map you're uploading, and understand the effects of the values you're changing. Once, you've paid for your software and equipment, I can guarantee you wouldn't want to give away your map for free..
    Ok some of you guys sell this as a business, of course you are going to feel that way, and rightly so. Look at Xbox360 games for example, there's a hell of alot of development and hardware used. And they're 55quid a shot.

    Not saying we shouldn't pay for the development not at all, but i think there will soon be a demand for joe public in the street being prepared to buy the software direct and upload to his/her car themselves, i know i would happily take the risk if it was a legit ecu file from AMD or such like.
    And we also know it's very easy to do.
    2009 S3 8P Phantom Black
    MODS : S3 Keyring

  10. #9
    SamDude's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,091
    Xbox games are sold in the thousands, therefore lowering the 'Return on Investment' cost to the publishers.

    There are far fewer remap customers, so the cost of development has to meet the 'price point' that customers will pay and also cover the R+D costs.

    That's why we have group buy's to lower the cost (cheap plug to: Upsolute thread )
    A4 2.0TDI S Line (2008)
    MMI/Sat Nav, Parking System Advanced, Advanced Key


  11. #10
    GSB1's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    273

    My Social Networking

    Visit GSB1's Youtube Channel
    It's software.

    Knocking out CD's is cheap, but software vendors charge you for the product covering development costs.

    You are not just paying labour for a remap, you are also buying software.
    Present: Ice silver B8 S4 s-tronic saloon (standard)
    Past: Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
    Hers: Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI CR 170 sport quattro

  12. #11
    mephisto's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    192

    Thumbs up

    I agree absolutely im not trying to avoid development, testing, RnD etc. Id prefer to cut out the middle man and buy the software direct.
    Just as i install O/S software and maintain servers, im confident of managing this task myself, i wouldn't pay someone to install Windows XP on my laptop!
    I wonder if someone like AMD or Superchips will consider this in the future.

    Samdude, your thread does look interesting though, if i can get my S3 chipped for 220 sheets id be very keen.
    Last edited by mephisto; 17th August 2007 at 18:39.
    2009 S3 8P Phantom Black
    MODS : S3 Keyring

  13. #12
    SamDude's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,091
    Quote Originally Posted by mephisto
    Samdude, your thread does look interesting though, if i can get my S3 chipped for 220 sheets id be very keen.
    Firstly, just to clarify - its not my thread (I wouldn't take the credit for someone else planning the buy).

    Secondly, as we're hovering around the 10 participant mark, the 220 price will drop a bit more. (Vested interest: It drops for all participants - me included... )
    Last edited by SamDude; 17th August 2007 at 20:09.
    A4 2.0TDI S Line (2008)
    MMI/Sat Nav, Parking System Advanced, Advanced Key


  14. #13
    ECU Remap & Tuning Specialists

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Herts/North London
    Posts
    410
    Spot on there matey.

    Quote Originally Posted by madvw
    yes, you can buy a ODB flashing kit off ebay cheap.
    yes, you can get generic maps off ebay/internet.
    yes, it would initially be cheaper than paying a tuner.
    yes you could re-map all your mates cars.

    However, some of the maps you see on the internet are stolen and unencrypted maps. Others are simply not the maps that they are said to be. Additionally, theres ALWAYS a chance of you permanently breaking your ECU with a bad flash too, even by professional tuners. The difference is that (truely) professional tuners have the experience, equipment and legal obligation to provide the service that you are paying for, and more importantly fix it if it goes wrong. That costs.

    Theres nothing stopping you developing your own ECU maps though. To truly understand and get the best from the map you're putting on your car, you have to have have some very fancy software - and that costs thousands of pounds. You need to see the full 3D picture of the map you're uploading, and understand the effects of the values you're changing. Once, you've paid for your software and equipment, I can guarantee you wouldn't want to give away your map for free..

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO

Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO